SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

Zexstream said:
You don't get it, the world is not going back to how it used to be.

We either build a new society with new ways if doing things or it will evetuallt collapse into anachy.
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No you're the one who isn't get it.

The approach you want to take (going all out to stop the virus but not worry about anything else), will cause more problems than this virus could dream to cause. It will ease one problem and intensify a further 10.

There's not just the problem with people feeding their kids, who the hell will pay the taxes to keep the NHS running if no one works?
 
Zexstream said:
Maybe you have missed some of my posts.

I said its a civilization event we are witnessing.

Nothing will ever be the same again until we have a cure, some scientists believe we wont have a cure.

Thus our civilization as we know it is ending.

Humans will still be here but it will be a different society and world.
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Civilization is constantly evolving. The world now is nothing like it was 50 years ago. The world is full of randomness and as humans we react and adapt. Always happened. This virus may spurn more rapid change in a particular direction and the world will never be the same way again, but that would be true without this pandemic. The world was always going to be unrecognisable in 50 years, regardless of whether this pandemic happened or not.
 
Dancfc said:
It's why it scares me what will happen. If the government ever decided they wanted to implement martial law into this country it really won't be that hard to get a significant number on board. Right subtle words at the right time, the correct context on graphs all off a sudden people who swore they would never give up their liberty's are signing up as volunteers to enforce the new law.
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I hate this government man but what keeps me optimistic is this...... without us, they don't get their money. That is all that drives them. To get their money, they need the economy. The economy doesn't exist if we're in lockdown. So they will release it ASAP. Martial law = no economy = no money for them. But yeah it's scary how easily manipulated people can be. Scared people are easy to control, and a lot of people are incredibly scared at present. Rightly so but there's a five line between concern and hysteria and something like this reveals just how 'on the edge' a lot of people are mentally.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
The papers are wrong.

My local schools have already told Year 11 that they’re never coming back. The final year of infant school has been cancelled too.

This must surely be the case in many other towns/counties.

Schools may start taking children in, butI would expect that to be a surgical decision by region, down to town and village level. Restrictions on catchment area - no travelling more than X miles to get to school would be a huge consideration.

You’ve got to contain and manage. Some will be dealt a worse hand than their friends at school, but that’s how it needs to be.
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A lot of schools of course remain open for key workers children etc
It may be that we see some increase in the children they take over the coming weeks?
I mean they could open in a month's time and remain open over the normal summer holidays and catch up all the academic learning for pupils potentially which would be good I think
 
JMack1234 said:
Well nothing is impossible. It's not impossible that we'll all be confined to our homes for 18 months and the army will deliver rations to our front door. Can't see it happening though.

I think it's impossible for the UK to impose a strict lockdown on a population who don't support one, but as the population currently overwhelming support the lockdown the government don't have to worry about it.

However it is impossible for a UK politician to appear on the media without being pressed about an exit strategy. So in my view, the UK lockdown is much more likely to relaxed than tightened in three weeks time.
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I thought we just had to put our grown up pants on?
 
Alabaster Codify7 said:
I hate this government man but what keeps me optimistic is this...... without us, they don't get their money. That is all that drives them. To get their money, they need the economy. The economy doesn't exist if we're in lockdown. So they will release it ASAP. Martial law = no economy = no money for them. But yeah it's scary how easily manipulated people can be. Scared people are easy to control, and a lot of people are incredibly scared at present. Rightly so but there's a five line between concern and hysteria and something like this reveals just how 'on the edge' a lot of people are mentally.
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Nah it definitely won't happen now, Rishi Sunak's presence alone would see to that if the unthinkable was being considered.

But ultimately a high number of this public are a dream for some Kim Jong-Un wannabe, all it will take is one complete wrongun getting into power.
 
senorgregster said:
How do you know you had the same viral load?
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Fair point and obviously a high viral load means that your body is not fighting the virus efficiently and it may last longer.

However, viral load isn't necessarily a direct indicator of symptoms as it is the body causing the symptoms not the virus. Fever is a good example - that is your body deliberately raising your temperature to fight the virus, so somebody with a fever may have a low viral load and their body has responded as it should. The same can happen in reverse if your body doesn't notice the threat as it should.
 
Alabaster Codify7 said:
I hate this government man but what keeps me optimistic is this...... without us, they don't get their money. That is all that drives them. To get their money, they need the economy. The economy doesn't exist if we're in lockdown. So they will release it ASAP. Martial law = no economy = no money for them. But yeah it's scary how easily manipulated people can be. Scared people are easy to control, and a lot of people are incredibly scared at present. Rightly so but there's a five line between concern and hysteria and something like this reveals just how 'on the edge' a lot of people are mentally.
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We went into lockdown with a handful of cases.

Open backup and the cases will surge.

Where will the country and the economy be when its is fully exposed to this virus?
 
sun_tzu said:
A lot of schools of course remain open for key workers children etc
It may be that we see some increase in the children they take over the coming weeks?
I mean they could open in a month's time and remain open over the normal summer holidays and catch up all the academic learning for pupils potentially which would be good I think
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Yeah, I keep reading schools are closed, but many are not as you say. They are open for children of key workers but also those vulnerable because of their needs or their families, which in some areas amounts to a substantial number.
 
Hound Dog said:
Are the moderators following this thread at all? No problems at all with what is being posted?
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There isn't too much wrong at the minute, a few are having a bit of a discussion on different sides of the outcome and lockdown, it's not personal attacks, and it's not misinformation?
 
Is there anything to be said for just going on Twitter and doing a little more arguing about the sustainability of people not paying for journalism, albeit under the guise of discussing Covid? I feel like we’re close to solving this one.
 
fergieisold said:
Yeh, it's weird. Basically an article wanting to suggest Boris has basically been on holiday and not bothered with COVID-19. The good bits are things surrounding planning for a pandemic which should have been better - this is the key to our our problems now. Not lockdown a week later, not Boris absent from COBRA meeting. The UK is doing OK I think, Like I said above we aren't behaving in some insane relaxed way...we're in lockdown and people are picking fault with whether it should have been a week or two earlier. Some countries aren't even in lockdown!
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This is my biggest problem with the UK's response. You are not in lockdown. People are still allowed out pretty much as and when they please, and it's barely being enforced. That's very different to what has been going on in other countries and it seems to be giving everybody a false sense of security.


Balljy said:
Fair point and obviously a high viral load means that your body is not fighting the virus efficiently and it may last longer.

However, viral load isn't necessarily a direct indicator of symptoms as it is the body causing the symptoms not the virus. Fever is a good example - that is your body deliberately raising your temperature to fight the virus, so somebody with a fever may have a low viral load and their body has responded as it should. The same can happen in reverse if your body doesn't notice the threat as it should.
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Viral load also relates to the time it takes for the virus to reach a specific level in your blood. Unless you know that both of you took in the exact same quantity there's no way to know that you weren't exposed to a much higher initial dose and therefore the virus propogated in your bloodstream faster. Some indications suggest this is what is happening to nurses and why a lot are getting very sick.
 
Hound Dog said:
Are the moderators following this thread at all? No problems at all with what is being posted?
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If this was a less serious topic and here wasn't a highly busy forum I'd question if one of them was doing it themselves to spice things up.

Happened on a forum I use to visit, a mod got caught out creating a ridiculous soc account to try and boost activity, was working for months until he accidently posted a comment meant to be by the WUM from his own account.
 
Zexstream said:
We went into lockdown with a handful of cases.

Open backup and the cases will surge.

Where will the country and the economy be when its is fully exposed to this virus?
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Thats my worry. Folks arent running out to shops thats open now due to better knowledge of social distancing etc so God knows why people think simply opening up more businesses will get the public flowing to them. The only reason why Boris will open them back up is to see them fail in the reality of the new climate so they cant claim as much as they do now. The lockdown is saving a lot of wages that the workers dont know is gone yet
Social distancing will kill a lot of jobs on its own
 
Balljy said:
Fair point and obviously a high viral load means that your body is not fighting the virus efficiently and it may last longer.

However, viral load isn't necessarily a direct indicator of symptoms as it is the body causing the symptoms not the virus. Fever is a good example - that is your body deliberately raising your temperature to fight the virus, so somebody with a fever may have a low viral load and their body has responded as it should. The same can happen in reverse if your body doesn't notice the threat as it should.
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Yes, thats why the paper is worrying. It backs up previous studies indicating asymptomatic people will spread this, perhaps just as well as the really sick since viral loads are equivalent.

I just had a quick look and this appears to be specific to each virus and likely patient population.
 
Zexstream said:
You don't get it, the world is not going back to how it used to be.

We either build a new society with new ways if doing things or it will evetuallt collapse into anachy.
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This was Berlin on Wednesday:

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Similar scenes in my city yesterday. The parks were full of people picknicking, drinking and enjoying themselves.

Not saying that is right either but it's obvious the situation is very far from "civilsation ending" or "collapsing into anarchy". Such rhetoric does not really help anyone and the one think I give at least the German government credit for (regardless of what I think about each individual measure) is using adequate language that doesn't downplay the threat this thing poses while at the same time outlining a way out of this. You cannot talk about building a new society when this one seems to be coping alright under the circumstances and the shops are reopening tomorrow.
 
11101 said:
Almost every country has been working on the understanding that the virus confers some degree of immunity. The countries actually treating patients and seeing how the virus progresses. Are they wrong? If so, where are the confirmed reinfections? How are patients clearing the virus on their own? Why are numerous countries working on serological tests?

Or is it the WHO, the organisation that has been stumbling through this and making mistakes at every turn? They're just protecting themselves at this point because they know when this is all over a lot of difficult questions will be asked of them.




Mostly in the foreign worker dormitories with their cramped conditions. As with anything to do with Singapore, take their information with a pinch of salt. It's only a free and open country as long as their image remains good.

There is very little evidence of how seasons affect it because we haven't hit summer yet in most of the hard hit countries, but there is a small bit of evidence appearing in Spain that it might slow it down.
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I'm a Singaporean. I have no idea why you doubt the statistics. It's not making us look good at all. Anyway, what I was trying to say is that the virus spreading like wild fire smoking among the foreign workers living in dormitories show that temperature isn't as big a factor, and that goes that the virus will go away automatically in the summer is quite misplaced.
 
300 less deaths than yesterday. This usually happens though ona weekend doesn't it, we'll probably have lower numbers reported again tomorrow then a climb on Tues-Thurs. Our peak last week was lower than the peak the previous week so I'd hope to see the same again this week.
 
Ekkie Thump said:
5,850 is the most cases we've had in a day since April 5th, and the second most overall. We've managed to almost double testing since then but still...that's a bit shit.
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Yeah it's got to be the increased testing because otherwise lockdown isn't working at ALL....and I highly doubt that.
 
Alabaster Codify7 said:
Yeah it's got to be the increased testing because otherwise lockdown isn't working at ALL....and I highly doubt that.
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That's why I have ignored the cases graph up to this point anyway, now testing is ramping up it can't be relied on for any sort of context atall.

A graph to show cases per 100/1000 people will be much more use.
 
Grinner said:
Then you haven't looked closely at the US justice system where innocent people are locked up and even executed often enough to make it a huge concern. Then there are all the incidences of police brutality, illegal shootings by cops, false arrests, evidence tampering, and conspiracy that frequently impact innocent people.

More power leads to abuse of power.
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The US is a strange one though. I really don't understand how the police brutality there goes unchecked.
 
Lj82 said:
I'm a Singaporean. I have no idea why you doubt the statistics. It's not making us look good at all. Anyway, what I was trying to say is that the virus spreading like wild fire smoking among the foreign workers living in dormitories show that temperature isn't as big a factor, and that goes that the virus will go away automatically in the summer is quite misplaced.
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It's hard to say because the foreign workers are in such cramped conditions any virus will circulate. Temperature having an effect refers to things like how long it can survive on a surface. If people are living on top of each other, that doesn't matter as much, it will spread anyway.

I'm saying if the handling of the foreign workers draws too much criticism i have little doubt the authorities will start to cover things up to protect the country's image.
 
11101 said:
It's hard to say because the foreign workers are in such cramped conditions any virus will circulate. Temperature having an effect refers to things like how long it can survive on a surface. If people are living on top of each other, that doesn't matter as much, it will spread anyway.

I'm saying if the handling of the foreign workers draws too much criticism i have little doubt the authorities will start to cover things up to protect the country's image.
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Like all countries, they would try to deflect criticisms. Use state media to influence kettle maybe. Cover up? No. That's just not how Singapore functions. I honestly don't know how you got this idea.
 
Zexstream said:
You don't get it, the world is not going back to how it used to be.

We either build a new society with new ways if doing things or it will evetuallt collapse into anachy.
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I’m glad for you that you’ve reached an opinion for yourself that you’re happy with. You shared it a few times and I’d suggest you now concentrate on getting ready for that eventuality. Given your so confident in your prediction, put all your chips and resources into that future so you and your family are best placed to deal with it.

But please stop your incessant over zealous and non stop barrage of telling everyone ‘they don’t get it’. There is no way of knowing what happens in the future: and some are very capable of living with that uncertainty even though you clearly are not.
 
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sullydnl said:


Hadn't occurred to me that if schools re-opened it might initially be on a one day per week basis. I wonder how much of an impact that would have for people? Seems very limited but I suppose from a mental health point of view it would make a big difference for the kids.
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The government is being exposed for the blunt instrument that it is on the education front.

Honestly I’d have expected it to reach out to television networks. Have a few STEM and PE tv programs rolled out, just 2 or 3 a week. Popular faces of tv rolled into the odd home existence.

- A science program to show 5-10 year olds how to make bouncy balls
- A popular footballer talking about keepy uppies
- An athlete talking about keeping fit and how walking is important
- Someone talking about phases of the moon, advising kids to look out the window every night.
- A musician talking about song structure, beats, how to play an instrument

I’m not saying the National Curriculum isn’t important.

But there’s also a chasm between Nothing, and 5 Days a week school.

1 Day a week seems to be waaaaay to close to the latter, than a sensible starting point.

Shit, weaponise this thing. Math and English is hard at a distance. Breed creativity. Get supermarkets selling 8 colour paint and paper at £1. Have a fcuking National Rainbow Unicorn painting competition. Collate responses. Put them on tv. Have a website that cycles through creations every 10 seconds. Get kids to record 15 seconds to a camera. Put that somewhere. Have some basic cooking shows on. Every kid should leave this with the ability to make an Omlette. Right now there are 14 year olds that can’t boil a fcuking egg. Have understandable 13 year olds read 5 year olds books on an approved .gov YouTube channel. Let kids help each other. Give them a structure outside of ‘When will school open mum’.

You can bring people together, help out parents and stop kids feeling isolated without gambling anyone’s health.

Trying to use existing structures right now is just so painfully stupid. Like, blood boiling stupidity.

I don’t need to see someone walk in their garden. I really don’t. I don’t care about it. It doesn’t help me. It doesn’t really help society. It reduces us all to look at one persons existence. It’s looking through the wrong end of the telescope. It’s generating ad revenue online and letting people consume more nonsensical shite.
 
Lj82 said:
Like all countries, they would try to deflect criticisms. Use state media to influence kettle maybe. Cover up? No. That's just not how Singapore functions. I honestly don't know how you got this idea.
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I ran an office there for almost 7 years. The way the government controls the media was surprising.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
The government is being exposed for the blunt instrument that it is on the education front.

Honestly I’d have expected it to reach out to television networks. Have a few STEM and PE tv programs rolled out, just 2 or 3 a week. Popular faces of tv rolled into the odd home existence.

- A science program to show 5-10 year olds how to make bouncy balls
- A popular footballer talking about keepy uppies
- An athlete talking about keeping fit and how walking is important
- Someone talking about phases of the moon, advising kids to look out the window every night.
- A musician talking about song structure, beats, how to play an instrument

I’m not saying the National Curriculum isn’t important.

But there’s also a chasm between Nothing, and 5 Days a week school.

1 Day a week seems to be waaaaay to close to the latter, than a sensible starting point.

Shit, weaponise this thing. Math and English is hard at a distance. Breed creativity. Get supermarkets selling 8 colour paint and paper at £1. Have a fcuking National Rainbow Unicorn painting competition. Collate responses. Put them on tv. Have a website that cycles through creations every 10 seconds. Get kids to record 15 seconds to a camera. Put that somewhere. Have some basic cooking shows on. Every kid should leave this with the ability to make an Omlette. Right now there are 14 year olds that can’t boil a fcuking egg. Have understandable 13 year olds read 5 year olds books on an approved .gov YouTube channel. Let kids help each other. Give them a structure outside of ‘When will school open mum’.

You can bring people together, help out parents and stop kids feeling isolated without gambling anyone’s health.

Trying to use existing structures right now is just so painfully stupid. Like, blood boiling stupidity.

I don’t need to see someone walk in their garden. I really don’t. I don’t care about it. It doesn’t help me. It doesn’t really help society. It reduces us all to look at one persons existence. It’s looking through the wrong end of the telescope. It’s generating ad revenue online and letting people consume more nonsensical shite.
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Love every suggestion and idea!
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
The government is being exposed for the blunt instrument that it is on the education front.

Honestly I’d have expected it to reach out to television networks. Have a few STEM and PE tv programs rolled out, just 2 or 3 a week. Popular faces of tv rolled into the odd home existence.

- A science program to show 5-10 year olds how to make bouncy balls
- A popular footballer talking about keepy uppies
- An athlete talking about keeping fit and how walking is important
- Someone talking about phases of the moon, advising kids to look out the window every night.
- A musician talking about song structure, beats, how to play an instrument

I’m not saying the National Curriculum isn’t important.

But there’s also a chasm between Nothing, and 5 Days a week school.

1 Day a week seems to be waaaaay to close to the latter, than a sensible starting point.

Shit, weaponise this thing. Math and English is hard at a distance. Breed creativity. Get supermarkets selling 8 colour paint and paper at £1. Have a fcuking National Rainbow Unicorn painting competition. Collate responses. Put them on tv. Have a website that cycles through creations every 10 seconds. Get kids to record 15 seconds to a camera. Put that somewhere. Have some basic cooking shows on. Every kid should leave this with the ability to make an Omlette. Right now there are 14 year olds that can’t boil a fcuking egg. Have understandable 13 year olds read 5 year olds books on an approved .gov YouTube channel. Let kids help each other. Give them a structure outside of ‘When will school open mum’.

You can bring people together, help out parents and stop kids feeling isolated without gambling anyone’s health.

Trying to use existing structures right now is just so painfully stupid. Like, blood boiling stupidity.

I don’t need to see someone walk in their garden. I really don’t. I don’t care about it. It doesn’t help me. It doesn’t really help society. It reduces us all to look at one persons existence. It’s looking through the wrong end of the telescope. It’s generating ad revenue online and letting people consume more nonsensical shite.
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Brilliant suggestions, the government have really been piss poor on the educational side, I work full time and have 4 children a 6 year old, 5 year old, 2 and a 1 year old. How the feck are me or my missus supposed to fully educate the older 2 whilst the 2 little ones are running about needing constant supervision.

The school's don't seem to have got much help or guidance on what to do as it has took them 3 or 4 weeks (however long schools have been closed for, I forget) to get an app together to help with home learning.
 
11101 said:
I ran an office there for almost 7 years. The way the government controls the media was surprising.
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I work in the government. The government does have a lot of influence over the media. But it is also very transparent. Esp on issues like that. There is no way that it is able to cover up something like that.
 
Ekkie Thump said:
5,850 is the most cases we've had in a day since April 5th, and the second most overall. We've managed to almost double testing since then but still...that's a bit shit.
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I haven’t seen a single Daisy today.

If I go for a walk in the park I’ll see thousands.

You can’t compare days if conditions have changed. You know this. You literally hint at the answer in Your post.

Tests doubled
Cases increased
Deaths fell

It’s bad if we have a week of that (as you assume deaths will go up in 7-14 days). But it’s not indicative of anything as it’s not a like for like comparison.
 
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