SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

[noodlehair]

One thing I don't get.

How come I can order a pair of trainers and have them turn up tomorrow, or get a pizza delivered within 20 minutes...yet my dad still can't get a "priority" food delivery unless it's booked over a month in advance?

There's no one able to deliver shopping for people yet half the country is happy to queue 2 hours for a McDonalds in their car, or drive 100 miles to go queue for a toilet by a beach?

Is this a worldwide thing or is it just England that's full of whining hypocrits?

 

[noodlehair]

Relatively lowish cases again. Good to see multiple days 2k test positive.

There's no reason why the cases wouldn't drop. Honestly people need to calm down a bit. It's a horrible situation but it's not spiralling out of control at this point in the way some people seem to want to pretend it is.

 

[africanspur]

One thing I don't get.

How come I can order a pair of trainers and have them turn up tomorrow, or get a pizza delivered within 20 minutes...yet my dad still can't get a "priority" food delivery unless it's booked over a month in advance?

There's no one able to deliver shopping for people yet half the country is happy to queue 2 hours for a McDonalds in their car, or drive 100 miles to go queue for a toilet by a beach?

Is this a worldwide thing or is it just England that's full of whining hypocrits?

I'm struggling to understand where the hypocrisy lies here exactly?

 

[Smores]

that second video in particular is actually quite something. The first guy can be sort of excused because he seems a bit simple in general.
That woman and her family though, the lack of self awareness is astonishing. The hour and a half drive, the fact her they’re basically rubbing against each other. It could actually just be comedy.

Othering is the epitome of Britishness these days.

 

[11101]

Seen this other one in the comments

In years to come it's going to drive me mad when British people reminisce about their 'lockdown' and i think back here to the once a week trips we were allowed to the nearest supermarket, with police and army checking documents along the way.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

That genre of “man outraged at thing he’s currently doing” isn’t as silly as it first seems. The issue they’re raising isn’t that everyone is an asshole for going to the beach, it’s that they think more should be done to stop everyone going to the beach. Close all the carparks, police check-points on all the main roads coming in, fines for anyone turning up somewhere they shouldn’t be etc etc. Basically what’s been happening in most other countries. In the absence of these controls, they’re just doing what everyone else is doing. Because they can.

Now they could all be wrong (I think they might be, as I don’t think outdoor spread is anything to worry about) but they’re not the massive hypocrites they’re painted as.

 

[T00lsh3d]

I kinda do, especially now the golf courses are open.

I also think I'm lucky aswell, the first 6-7 weeks with nothing open would have drove me insane, Ive partially enjoyed my normality of working and taking the kids to school.

Still, I wouldn't mind laying in bed till 10am, getting up and playing golf, getting home, getting drunk and repeating.

Yes agree. I was really on it the first month, working 8am-10pm most days including weekends. I’d bought into the pride of keeping the company going in its hour of need.
Now I’m just fecked, exhausted, desperately needing some time off.
Having spoken to a colleague who’s just come back from furlough though, she was fed up as hell, felt unvalued by the company, bored shitless in lockdown and had got quite depressed, So it’s swings and roundabouts really

 

[Ludens the Red]

That genre of “man outraged at thing he’s currently doing” isn’t as silly as it first seems. The issue they’re raising isn’t that everyone is an asshole for going to the beach, it’s that they think more should be done to stop everyone going to the beach. Close all the carparks, police check-points on all the main roads coming in, fines for anyone turning up somewhere they shouldn’t be etc etc. Basically what’s been happening in most other countries. In the absence of these controls, they’re just doing what everyone else is doing. Because they can.

Now they could all be wrong (I think they might be, as I don’t think outdoor spread is anything to worry about) but they’re not the massive hypocrites they’re painted as.

The first guy yeah he can be given the benefit of doubt, for one he’s simple, yet does seem to acknowledge those things you spoke about.
The women however dont. Their issue seems to be that other people have the audacity to be there (her Tesco reference says it all), and that they’re almost getting in her way. The younger one even says “people are gonna go mad and just go out” ............
As her family drive one and a half hours away JUST to get some outdoor time.

 

[Dumbstar]

Sorry to hear they are still suffering, have the symptoms changed at all ?

Thanks. It's up and down but it's not near ending yet. However, it's more common than anyone realises, these folks are the unregistered victims and why I don't think medical people even have 50% understanding of what the hell is actually going on with this virus. Based on my own experiences, and fellow sufferers on Facebook and Slack, I'm doing my own investigations and reaching my own conclusions. Obviously nothing too drastic like drinking bleach. Yet. :P

On a related note it's also why I personally think football should not be played yet, but that is for the footy discussion thread.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Finally!! Then we can abandon Twitter speculation and get some proper stats from the hidden millions of asymptomatic sufferers (surely we'll all rush to buy from Superdrugs right?). Costs had better be low.

Wolves, do know what the accuracy on these kits will be? Are they the proper Roche ones?

Edit: OK, I've read the full article. I might be tempted at getting the tests done for four of us in the family. Two that are still suffering severe symptoms for months (my wife and daughter) and two that have no symptoms, me and my other daughter. I won't get my mum tested as we've been shielding her so don't believe she has been infected yet.

Never mind serology. If your wife and daughter are symptomatic they should get a swab for a PCR test. From what I remember neither of them have been tested yet. It seems very unlikely to me that they’ve got covid and it’s important you get a definitive answer, in case there’s something else going on.

 

[Heardy]

that second video in particular is actually quite something. The first guy can be sort of excused because he seems a bit simple in general.
That woman and her family though, the lack of self awareness is astonishing. The hour and a half drive, the fact her they’re basically rubbing against each other. It could actually just be comedy.

Because she's with her direct family, she feels that the travel is ok. I'm assuming her "complaint" is the fact of people aren't respecting personal space / 2m rule etc.,?

Not that i agree with her - driving 90mins away is ridiculous.

 

[711]

One thing I don't get.

How come I can order a pair of trainers and have them turn up tomorrow, or get a pizza delivered within 20 minutes...yet my dad still can't get a "priority" food delivery unless it's booked over a month in advance?

There's no one able to deliver shopping for people yet half the country is happy to queue 2 hours for a McDonalds in their car, or drive 100 miles to go queue for a toilet by a beach?

Is this a worldwide thing or is it just England that's full of whining hypocrits?

Maybe the number of people that want shopping delivered is a great deal higher than the number of people queuing for McDonalds or driving to the beach? That would help explain it a little.

 

[One Night Only]

Yes agree. I was really on it the first month, working 8am-10pm most days including weekends. I’d bought into the pride of keeping the company going in its hour of need.
Now I’m just fecked, exhausted, desperately needing some time off.
Having spoken to a colleague who’s just come back from furlough though, she was fed up as hell, felt unvalued by the company, bored shitless in lockdown and had got quite depressed, So it’s swings and roundabouts really

Yeah, same here, knackered, we've had people off due to covid 19, self isolating, holidays, so we have been running on about 60% manpower on my squad, so we've picked up the slack and haven't even got a thank you so far.

Now just about everyone is back, and I can't get a holiday booked in till end of July because other people have them booked.

 

[Vidyoyo]

That genre of “man outraged at thing he’s currently doing” isn’t as silly as it first seems. The issue they’re raising isn’t that everyone is an asshole for going to the beach, it’s that they think more should be done to stop everyone going to the beach. Close all the carparks, police check-points on all the main roads coming in, fines for anyone turning up somewhere they shouldn’t be etc etc. Basically what’s been happening in most other countries. In the absence of these controls, they’re just doing what everyone else is doing. Because they can.

Now they could all be wrong (I think they might be, as I don’t think outdoor spread is anything to worry about) but they’re not the massive hypocrites they’re painted as.

Following this, do we have any coppers here to offer perspective? I'm curious to know if they've been told not to bother people as much or are simply busy elsewhere.

 

[Penna]

In years to come it's going to drive me mad when British people reminisce about their 'lockdown' and i think back here to the once a week trips we were allowed to the nearest supermarket, with police and army checking documents along the way.

Yeah, 200-metre dog walks were good, too. It wasn't worth getting their harnesses on.

 

[sglowrider]

https://www.roche.com/media/releases/med-cor-2020-05-03.htm
Specificity was determined with 5272 samples, sensitivity at the >14 day post PCR confirmation was with 29 patients though

Testing on 29 patients for sensitivity is a tad low?

 

[Dancfc]

 

[jymufc20]

Thanks. It's up and down but it's not near ending yet. However, it's more common than anyone realises, these folks are the unregistered victims and why I don't think medical people even have 50% understanding of what the hell is actually going on with this virus. Based on my own experiences, and fellow sufferers on Facebook and Slack, I'm doing my own investigations and reaching my own conclusions. Obviously nothing too drastic like drinking bleach. Yet. :P

On a related note it's also why I personally think football should not be played yet, but that is for the footy discussion thread.

Hope they get better soon.

 

[finneh]

And when your business is thriving, do all your staff earn as much as you? You can't be happy to rake it in when things are going well, but expect not to bear the brunt when things aren't. That is the whole game of being a small business owner.

When my business is thriving I'm paid relative to my contributions to the business, which is the same for my staff.

I'm also not saying I'm bearing any brunt. I'm comparing my staff who are working to my staff who aren't The point is that awful government policy is rewarding fecklessness at the expense of the hardworking.

In my business I don't want the staff who're negative about returning coming back, because they will affect morale negatively and it'll take far more of my time to ensure they're productive. That means those same staff are being rewarded for being feckless; whereas the staff that are willing to come back without complaining are being punished for doing the right thing; often earning the same net salary despite working a full week.

It's not even the case as per normal times where the hardworking staff will get bonuses/larger pay rises and the lazy will not. No-one is likely to receive a pay rise or bonus for a few dozen months.

The only saving grace for the hardworking is that they will have far less chance of being made redundant.

A simple, competent policy allowing for everyone to return part time on 90% salary (40% covered by government) would increase business productivity as trained staff would be doing their own job, it would decrease cost to the government as I previously stated and would be far more equitable.

I suppose competence and a left wing chancellor will never go hand in hand though.

And this is the problem. There is a divide building amongst people working and people on furlough working for the same company. I don’t see why I should be covering the work of 3 people whilst many are now going to the beach as restrictions are relaxed. How exactly is this fair? The point of the measures is to stop the spread of a ‘killer’ virus yet this point now seems to have been lost on many.

Most people have had paid time off which they would never be able to afford to take 2/3 months off in their working life.

There's absolutely a divide and it's caused resentment from staff who're still working. From discussions I've heard the divide will also last far longer than the furlough scheme.

 

[sammsky1]

Because she's with her direct family, she feels that the travel is ok. I'm assuming her "complaint" is the fact of people aren't respecting personal space / 2m rule etc.,?
Not that i agree with her - driving 90mins away is ridiculous.

What is to disagree with her; Has she broken any ‘stay alert’ guidelines?

Why is it ridiculous when Boris and his Government have actively encouraged it?

What is ridiculous is the weak and mixed messaging. It’s been a real issue in UK all the way through this crisis

 

[Heardy]

What is to disagree with her; Has she broken any ‘stay alert’ guidelines?

Why is it ridiculous when Boris and his Government have actively encouraged it?

What is ridiculous is the weak and mixed messaging. It’s been a real issue in UK all the way through this crisis

You're right that the Govt has offered nothing but weak and mixed messaging, but people can still apply a level of common sense.

We can all continue to take a level of personal responsibility here to stay home as much as possible for the foreseeable. People cannot hide behind the "well the govt says i can [kind of]" excuse - otherwise we're all fecked.

 

[sammsky1]

You're right that the Govt has offered nothing but weak and mixed messaging, but people can still apply a level of common sense.

We can all continue to take a level of personal responsibility here to stay home as much as possible for the foreseeable. People cannot hide behind the "well the govt says i can [kind of]" excuse - otherwise we're all fecked.

I have issue with ‘morality’ and ‘common sense’. It doesn’t exist as an equal interpretation nor is it enforceable. That’s why we have laws. Something is either legal or illegal. Especially for something as serious as this, where just a handful of people can create a pandemic.

UK Government even used the word ‘guidance’ instead of ‘law’!

I don’t really blame ‘the people’ for UK's horrific experience with covid19. It was our Governments tardy, half arsed and confused reaction that has cost us.

We needed UK military to enforce a lockdown from 1st week of March, with any abusers facing the full force of the law. We know what we got instead.

 

[George Owen]

I have issue with ‘morality’ and ‘common sense’. It doesn’t exist as an equal interpretation. That’s why we have laws. Something is either legal or illegal. Especially for something as serious as this.

UK Government even used the word ‘guidance’ instead of ‘law’ or something equally forceful.

I don’t really blame ‘the people’ for UKs horrific experience with covid19. It was our Governents tardy, half arsed and confused reaction that has cost us.

We needed military to enforce a lockdown from 1st week of March, with any abusers facing the full force of the law. We know what we got instead.

Agreed. This is 100% on the government(s).

Here in Chile was exactly the same. 25 thousand vehicles have left the capital (Santiago, the epicentre of covid here) to celebrate this long weekend (Holy fecking week) elsewhere, despite being in lockdown. Ridiculous.

The sanitary cordon only catches like 1 out 100 cars.

result of businessmen trying to run a country...

 

[Dante]

Here are the UK numbers with a trendline. We're definitely looking a lot better.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

When my business is thriving I'm paid relative to my contributions to the business, which is the same for my staff.

I'm also not saying I'm bearing any brunt. I'm comparing my staff who are working to my staff who aren't The point is that awful government policy is rewarding fecklessness at the expense of the hardworking.

In my business I don't want the staff who're negative about returning coming back, because they will affect morale negatively and it'll take far more of my time to ensure they're productive. That means those same staff are being rewarded for being feckless; whereas the staff that are willing to come back without complaining are being punished for doing the right thing; often earning the same net salary despite working a full week.

It's not even the case as per normal times where the hardworking staff will get bonuses/larger pay rises and the lazy will not. No-one is likely to receive a pay rise or bonus for a few dozen months.

The only saving grace for the hardworking is that they will have far less chance of being made redundant.

A simple, competent policy allowing for everyone to return part time on 90% salary (40% covered by government) would increase business productivity as trained staff would be doing their own job, it would decrease cost to the government as I previously stated and would be far more equitable.

I suppose competence and a left wing chancellor will never go hand in hand though.



There's absolutely a divide and it's caused resentment from staff who're still working. From discussions I've heard the divide will also last far longer than the furlough scheme.

Said it the last time you said a bunch of stuff about your employees. You’re a truly terrible manager.

Fair go if you’ve created a successful business.

But I sincerely hope that your employees find your posts here. Your posts are disgusting. Take a day. Pick up a phone and talk to them. Recognise them as human beings.

 

[Igor Drefljak]

Said it the last time you said a bunch of stuff about your employees. You’re a truly terrible manager.

Fair go if you’ve created a successful business.

But I sincerely hope that your employees find your posts here. Your posts are disgusting. Take a day. Pick up a phone and talk to them. Recognise them as human beings.

I can't find the like button!

 

[Heardy]

Here are the UK numbers with a trendline. We're definitely looking a lot better.

just have to hope as “lockdown” relaxes we don’t go back 6 weeks!

 

[Drifter]

 

[Ludens the Red]

Following this, do we have any coppers here to offer perspective? I'm curious to know if they've been told not to bother people as much or are simply busy elsewhere.

It was doomed from the start because the message was to be nicey nicey about it. With something like this with most of the onus on the general public if you want a high level of compliance you have to be strict.

We were told to warn people, now if you’re a member of the public and you know your chances of being caught are low anyway and even if you are caught you know you’ll be politely warned about 200 times why wouldn’t you take the risk and go outside as you please ?
In general though the designated officers have been out there to disperse the group drinking etc in the more troubled areas as opposed to just reprimanding the Tom, dick and Harry’s.

 

[Arruda]

That genre of “man outraged at thing he’s currently doing” isn’t as silly as it first seems.

Yeah, I felt some empathy with him. He's aware of the situation.

Granted I was always of the type "do as I say, don't do as I do". Don't think I could perform my job properly otherwise.

 

[SalfordRed18]

Said it the last time you said a bunch of stuff about your employees. You’re a truly terrible manager.

Fair go if you’ve created a successful business.

But I sincerely hope that your employees find your posts here. Your posts are disgusting. Take a day. Pick up a phone and talk to them. Recognise them as human beings.

Glad I'm not the only one that thought this.

 

[Hugh Jass]

Why do the USA, Spain, the UK, France and Italy have such a high death rate compared to other countries? Are other countries under reporting deaths?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Yeah, I felt some empathy with him. He's aware of the situation.

Granted I was always of the type "do as I say, don't do as I do". Don't think I could perform my job properly otherwise.

Yup. I smoked fags throughout my clinical years. Never stopped me lecturing people.

 

[horsechoker]

Why do the USA, Spain, the UK, France and Italy have such a high death rate compared to other countries? Are other countries under reporting deaths?

I think those countries weren't able to contain the spread and thus you had everyone getting infected. Other places tested heavily, put the infected into quarantine and did contact tracing to monitor the cases. Of course, countries have under reported, some countries aren't including care homes in their data. It can also do with the way deaths are recorded, some countries might be attributing the cause of death to corona virus when there were other factors and vice versa.

 

[golden_blunder]

One thing I don't get.

How come I can order a pair of trainers and have them turn up tomorrow, or get a pizza delivered within 20 minutes...yet my dad still can't get a "priority" food delivery unless it's booked over a month in advance?

There's no one able to deliver shopping for people yet half the country is happy to queue 2 hours for a McDonalds in their car, or drive 100 miles to go queue for a toilet by a beach?

Is this a worldwide thing or is it just England that's full of whining hypocrits?

I’m sorry that your dad is struggling to get his shopping. That happened quite a lot in Ireland up to possibly about a month ago.Tesco here have added extra slots, hired more staff and so on. But remember demand is so much higher than normal delivery demand. I read a crazy fact like 400% more every day. Even for the vulnerable.
That’s why some of the other chains over here have a scheme where you can do click and collect and the GAA players are kindly delivering it to those who can’t get out. Also local councils have tel numbers you can call to get help.

can your dad avail of the government scheme to get a box of food delivered every week?
Also check out marlon harewood on LinkedIn. Him and his mates are involved with a group who are dropping food parcels to those who need it.

 

[Hugh Jass]

I think those countries weren't able to contain the spread and thus you had everyone getting infected. Other places tested heavily, put the infected into quarantine and did contact tracing to monitor the cases. Of course, countries have under reported, some countries aren't including care homes in their data. It can also do with the way deaths are recorded, some countries might be attributing the cause of death to corona virus when there were other factors and vice versa.

Yea but russia has 317 k cases and only 3000 ish deaths. Spain has 280 k cases and 28,000 deaths. It seems like a huge difference.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

This is insane.

 

[JPRouve]

Yea but russia has 317 k cases and only 3000 ish deaths. Spain has 280 k cases and 28,000 deaths. It seems like a huge difference.

Most countries aren't reporting deaths properly, their figures don't match with recorded excess deaths, take an example with Peru, they offficially have 3k covid-19 deaths but 9k excess deaths.

Here you have an older article about that subject:

 

[JPRouve]

This is insane.

It's kind of obvious, I have looked at how things about France where reported and many accounts use the exact same sentences, with the same false narratives.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It's kind of obvious, I have looked at how things about France where reported and many accounts use the exact same sentences, with the same false narratives.

Are they tweeting in French? Just blows my mind that there are people out there who want to create discord and confusion during a global pandemic. That’s as evil as it gets.