99% of posters don't seem to grasp this basic point. I mean a change of direction is undoubtedly needed, but (1) it has to be the right one and (2 ) you have to fully commit to it for a long time. I don't see Ed having the stomach to get either right.
Is Poch really the answer?
- Thread starter AshRK
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
99% of posters don't seem to grasp this basic point. I mean a change of direction is undoubtedly needed, but (1) it has to be the right one and (2 ) you have to fully commit to it for a long time. I don't see Ed having the stomach to get either right.
Everything besides your eyes and brain, it would seem.
KDB cost them points
Worrying for United supporters yes, very worrying. The man has won NOTHING!
You mean brain?
Are things now so bad we are seriously considering a serial managerial failure as manager of Manchester United? As a manger Pochettino has won nothing; Spurs played nice football, for a while, but his last 3/4 seasons in charge they were dire.
He is plenty smart. Just not got the balls to tell Glazers that there are more important long term objectives that their annual dividend.
The poster is from different universe that in his universe Poch has won trophies.
Wow, definitely sensitive. Seems I've struck a nerve!
Mate, you're the one who thinks comparing managers based on 5 matches or one trophy is a meaningful in any way, shape, or form. It seems you just fundamentally don't understand that there are hundreds if not thousands of variables that go into the game, which renders these sorts of comparisons asinine.
Im undecided either way. But interested to hear who those fans who are against Poch because he hasn't won anything, want.
Who is out there that has won stuff and is available or we can prise away?
Who is out there that has won stuff and is available or we can prise away?
I see what you mean.
However I don't think he's smart when it comes to football matters. Truth is that cnut is clueless af when it comes to football. We're in a serious need for an established RW and we bought two 18 yo kids, who hardly had a match in the highest level. I'm not saying Sancho, it's understandable we didn't buy him. But surely as one of the biggest clubs in the world we could do better than that?
You are being salty and sensitive because you can’t find a single aspect how your manager is better. What’s available right now is what’s available, what do you want me to do? Going to future in 5 years?
He's be an improvement of that I am confident off but than again that's not really saying much.
You brought him up in the first place by saying I was unqualified to comment on United's managerial situation! This isn't the thread for it, but if you insist, for me Lampard has clearly done a better job of establishing a style of play and working to address the needs of the team in the transfer market. I am excited that our young players seem to consistently be improving and are being managed appropriately, and that problems with our style of play are being fixed. Finally, our underlying expected goals numbers are better than yours and were last season as well, suggesting Lampard was unlucky overall in terms of finishing and being saddled with a historically bad goalkeeper.
All of these things are more predictive of future success than 5 matches of a head to head record.
Presumably the calculation is that on average they can be resold for more. Basically the Ronaldo model on a smaller scale.
He probably doesn't care about football that much unless we miss CL or they stop buying shirts in Asia, which starts to cost ££££. Those are quite high bars though.
If we do sack Ole (I hope we don't as I believe he is a pretty good manager), I believe Poch should be among part of the 2-3 manager shortlist, and rightly so. But, it''s quite easy to see what will happen 2 seasons later if things aren't going his way. The same impatient posters on here and social media platforms will come up with excuses about how his transfer records has always been bad, how his record vs big teams is poor, how he hasn't won a title, how he bottled 2016 title challenge, how we couldn't win a trophy let alone a league when the quality of big PL sides was at the lowest, how we didn't see a lot of youth academy graduates come through under him. In addition to this, we'd twist his record of improving players to how Eriksen was already good, Walker had featured in PFA TOTY 3 years before he joined Spurs, etc.
How Lampard has done better than Ole in this aspect?
What young players? Ole is doing it to Greenwood, Rashford, Tuanzebe and etc as well, Lampard is not the special one here.
It’s not unlucky, you can’t be unlucky for 38 games. It’s down to coaching that Ole can improve attackers finishing ability to be more clinical in converting the chances than what Lampard did.
Hey, DDG also making mistakes last season. What did Ole do to improve that? Selling DDG and buying new keeper? No, he placed Dean as his no 2 to push DDG which so far has working out very well, credit again on man management.
You mentioned nothing how ‘’those things’’ make Lampard the better manager when clearly Ole is doing the same thing which is why unlike you I’m aware of it and I came into conclusion already since yesterday that those aspects both managers are considered to be in equal term which is why I never mentioned it.
Exactly, so its either keep faith with Ole or go back to when SAF retired and appoint another so so manager like Moyes, give him a couple of seasons then try somebody else, and on and on and on until, by the time a manager who does have the right credentials comes along in 5 or 10 or 15 years time, Manchester United will be a club regularly finishing mid table, maybe getting as far as the last 8 of the Cup, and unable to attract the sort of players and investment it needs to improve.
And has never actually looked like winning anything, either.
Jose had won everything in sight (and is currently riding high again) but the ending was the same. Managers aren't a magic cure for a badly run club.
If Ole manages to hang on in there until the end of the season, big if at this point given how things are going but anyway, and we finish with a worse points total and lower league place and do worse in the cups, will you be happy to keep Ole for next season as well?
Bearing in mind he's spent around £300m so far, had more than enough time and money to shape out his team. We have a young squad (as we're constantly reminded) so improvements year on year should be very obvious to see as they gain experience, and there's been no major squad upheavals either to unsettle them. In our squad right now there is no justifiable reason for anyone other than Mata and Matic to be in decline, everyone else is either approaching their peak or at their peak, nobody older than 27 who features regularly.
In other words, Ole has absolutely no excuse for taking this squad backwards. So if he does take it backwards this season, why would any genuine United fan stick by him?
In fairness, every manager that has won league titles was once a manager that had not won anything.
It's also inaccurate to say Poch has never looked like he would win anything, as he was close to winning the PL title and then close to winning the CL.
Even Klopp didn't win the first European final he was ever in.
I don't know.
We've appointed van Gaal and Mourinho, two coaches who have been there and won it. Yet, for all his faults, Solskjaer has yet us playing thr host football in the post SAF period.
Is Poch the answer? Maybe. But there is absolutely no way of telling without the benefit of hindsight.
We've appointed van Gaal and Mourinho, two coaches who have been there and won it. Yet, for all his faults, Solskjaer has yet us playing thr host football in the post SAF period.
Is Poch the answer? Maybe. But there is absolutely no way of telling without the benefit of hindsight.
i would like to see Poch get a shot managing this team. I believe we would be in better position than we are now.
I would be happy to stick with Ole, its the board which needs to changed, a board whos only concern is the money the club makes as a "Brand" and the money they make from that Brand. There was a time when Manchester United, directed by the inestimable David Gill off the field and SAF on it, realised that what happens on the field, ie winning trophies, is what brings in investment, sponsors, advertizing revenue and wealth but since Gill and SAF retired that very simple, very obvious rule has been forgotten, it seems Woodward, the Glazers and the rest truly believe that the clubs name and history will always attract money; it wont.
Pochettino has a play out from the back, pressing, technical, modern style of play, has finished 2nd on 86 points, been a regular in CL knockouts and reached a CL final. Absolute lightyears away from Moyes' achievements.
Was firmly in the camp of keep Ole but a few, things have changed me over the last few months.
We need someone to take this team on now, someone brave enough to implement a system and stand by it, someone strong enough to leave Pogba out full stop.
- Chelsea Semi final, fair enough players were tired but his team selection was shocking and it was a realistic cup to win.
- Sevilla, now they are a good side so getting beat is no disgrace but the fact he kept the same 11 on the field until around the 80th minute and then brought on Dan James ahead of a striker that could have ruffled a few feathers baffled me. The game was crying out for another striker long before they scored and to only bring him on with 2 minutes to go was a joke.
- The use of Dan James, totally out of his depth, doesn't belong on the same field as some of his teammates, yet Ole seemed obsessed for a long period.
- No set formation, we change every match to the point there is no consistency.
- Pogba,stick him in the reserves and have done with him. We lose or struggle every time he starts.
We need someone to take this team on now, someone brave enough to implement a system and stand by it, someone strong enough to leave Pogba out full stop.
If we are looking for identity I think Nagelsmann, Hasenhuttl and Rodgers are good selections. This idea that there aren't any managers available is nonsense. There's more renown names like Poch / Allegri.
Yes the three German managers are my choice too with Nagelsmann and Rose as I do not know much about Hasenhuttl yet. He has got Southampton playing good football but so had Biesla at Leeds but they get beaten by teams with better players.
Madrid probably needs him more than we do. They are at the stage where they have talented young players that needs developing and Madrid need a rebuild and Poch is good at that. We don't need a rebuild, we are at the stage where we should be looking at winning trophies and Poch has proven to not be good at that
Last edited:
Pochettino did far better than Moyes ever did, both in the league (against stronger competition) and in Europe. He also plays a style of football that even in his last two seasons was far better than Moyes, who even at the time was out-of-date.
But you dont get any prizes for coming second.
He also allowed his team to get humiliated by BM. Unacceptable
Where has Poch rebuilt
He came third in a two-horse race in the league and fluked his way to the CL final, in which they never showed up. Hardly close.
He was never close to winning the PL, which season was he close?
Also, the were not close to winning the CL either, they didnt look like they were competing in the final, lost it without any real fight. Its like saying we were close in 2011, when in reality we were never really close
Far too many united fans have some odd and almost obsessive fascination with Poch, which I do not understand. Before him it was Jose....
We're not setup to challenge for the title this season so anyone thinking we should be is deluded. Our aim is to close the gap, and yes, I am aware how the table looks now, but please for the love of christ take into consideration we had no pre season and have to squeeze a regular season into a smaller time frame. Players, despite their wages, will get tired with constant games, which will translate in poor performances and dropped points. Anyone going mad and calling for a new manager this quickly into a new season is mental.
We'd be better served sacking the board not the manager. How about fans rally behind the manager and the team for a change? I'm sick of the toxicity that seemingly surrounds the club constantly.
We're not setup to challenge for the title this season so anyone thinking we should be is deluded. Our aim is to close the gap, and yes, I am aware how the table looks now, but please for the love of christ take into consideration we had no pre season and have to squeeze a regular season into a smaller time frame. Players, despite their wages, will get tired with constant games, which will translate in poor performances and dropped points. Anyone going mad and calling for a new manager this quickly into a new season is mental.
We'd be better served sacking the board not the manager. How about fans rally behind the manager and the team for a change? I'm sick of the toxicity that seemingly surrounds the club constantly.
Not for me. I don't think Poch is the answer. I feel if we hire him(knowing how Woodward fecks up everything) he is going to hire him. We won't win anything with him. To me he is not a progressive top coach. Is he better than Ole? Of course he is.
I just want another club to hurry up and hire him so we actually hire someone more fitting to what we want.