The vaccines | vaxxed boosted unvaxxed? New poll

How's your immunity looking? Had covid - vote twice - vax status and then again for infection status

  • Vaxxed but no booster

  • Boostered

  • Still waiting in queue for first vaccine dose

  • Won't get vaxxed (unless I have to for travel/work etc)

  • Past infection with covid + I've been vaccinated

  • Past infection with covid - I've not been vaccinated


Results are only viewable after voting.
Is the second wave of the Swedish strain I see...
 
There is an end game. It’s already started. The vaccines. Yes there will be strains that reduce efficacy but we already know that this latest slippery cnut of a strain can be prevented by at least two of the vaccines with a level of efficacy that is higher than the flu vaccine. And that’s coming after a sustained spell of viral replication all over the world that we will never see again.

I get that it’s disappointing how dragged out the end is getting but it’s no less tangible even though it might be delayed. The only issue is how long it takes to get back to normality. 6 months? 12 months? We don’t know but all we can do is crack on with doing our bit to reduce transmission. It’s not easy but it’s not a world war either. We’re not eating rations and sleeping in bunkers. So it’s important to have a bit of perspective. Life is hard right now but it could be a lot worse.

Are you referring to Pfizer and Moderna here?

Would it be fair to say that, so far given what we know, the Pfizer vaccine is the best of the lot?
 
We’ve learned one thing on how to guarantee you can hold it at bay in the past year, hard as feck borders from the very beginning. There’s zero guarantee with anything else, as proven by Germany, Portugal, Switzerland et al. There’s absolutely no other strategy that has proven medium-term to have a massive effect on keeping your Covid mortality low. No other.

The border closures work because it prevents importation of new cases that seed outbreaks be that from abroad or other areas/states but need to be coupled with all the other usual measures. You then have the opportunity to use lockdown/distances/masks to try to kill the outbreaks within a "cell". In the case of the Victoria outbreak International and State borders were effectively closed and there was also a border of sorts that isolated Melbourne from the rest of the state.

When the Victoria outbreak peaked they had just over 700 new cases per day and the UK had the same number. Not the same places but it does demonstrate the potentially hugely different outcomes that are possible. Probably the biggest other factor is to keep you cases low enough to allow contact tracing to work properly. Victoria got overwhelmed at the beginning of the outbreak which slowed suppression down and even now with expanded capacity they couldn't cope with more than about 600 daily cases (if I remember correctly).
 
Are you referring to Pfizer and Moderna here?

Would it be fair to say that, so far given what we know, the Pfizer vaccine is the best of the lot?

I've had a couple of doctor friends (I like in Denmark) tell me that they think Moderna is ahead of Pfizer in a photo finish due to it being easier to handle; doesn't need extreme cold freezers, can be kept in refrigerator a bit longer and because it has more of the active substance, it is less sensitive to being shaken and rattled around when it's ready for delivery in nursing homes and outside hospital environments.
But there is so little of it in Europe that it's almost a moot point.
 
Significant outbreak of the South African strain in Austria. Important information for Europe as the Austrian ski resorts appeared to be a significant component in the original European outbreak. Hopefully governments will be quicker off the mark this time. Looking at you, Boris.

 
Does anyone know the possible timelines for creating a booster jab for this S.A. Vaccine?

Also is the S.A variant resistant only to Asra or Pfizer/Moderna too?
 
Significant outbreak of the South African strain in Austria. Important information for Europe as the Austrian ski resorts appeared to be a significant component in the original European outbreak. Hopefully governments will be quicker off the mark this time. Looking at you, Boris.




I think much of Europe is going to get hit. UK will be slow of course.
 
Does anyone know the possible timelines for creating a booster jab for this S.A. Vaccine?

Also is the S.A variant resistant only to Asra or Pfizer/Moderna too?
Realistically, maybe volume in Q4 at earliest. Most vaccine makers are still experimenting to see if they need to make a vaccine cocktail or whether a vaccine that targets the SA/Brazil variants will also deal with the others variants (including the UK one). Some vaccines are more suitable than others for booster doses.

We know that Pfizer/Moderna can neutralise the SA variant in the lab, but not as well as they neutralise the original Wuhan and European versions. Neither has SA results from actual humans yet. The guess is that there may be some drop off in efficacy, but we don't know how much. Like J&J and Novavax, they're expected to get good efficacy, and should be very effective against serious illness.
 
It would have only been as simple as putting it in a spreadsheet surely? :D

If there is one thing I can believe is that the GPs in this country have done feck all data gathering/recording of cases. Spreadsheet or otherwise. :D:mad:

Disclaimer: front line medical staff and doctors are exempt from my barbed comment. I know some people get touchy when I don't highlight that difference.
 
Wouldn't that require that records of previous infections were kept? Doubt the NHS bothered.
They are pretty good with information these days. In my online patient record, there is an entry relating to my negative Covid test result from last year.
 
Wouldn't that require that records of previous infections were kept? Doubt the NHS bothered.

It’s bound to be all on a completely somewhere. They used a centralised testing process. Much easier to get hold of that info than it would be in the US, I’d imagine.
 
Wouldn't that require that records of previous infections were kept? Doubt the NHS bothered.
They should have covid test results, though there are cases of test records (name/address/phone) not matching back correctly to NHS numbers. Mostly they have the data though.

I guess one concern would be that where the tests are from mild or asymptomatic cases, or from many months ago, the added protection may not be so good. I suspect they'll conclude that for the UK at least, it won't help enough to be worth the filtering effort. If the tested infected group, amongst the top priority groups was a bigger % of the population maybe.
 


More evidence that anyone with prior infection really only needs one jab. Encouraging results against B1351 too.


Is this also not encouraging for longer time between vaccine doses?

And also to potentially use different vaccines as boosters?
 
Not sure if this has been highlighted already, but the proportion of Covid deaths that are over-80s has been consistently falling throughout January (this is data for English hospitals only). Maybe an early sign that the vaccine program is having some effect?

pubchart
 
Not sure if this has been highlighted already, but the proportion of Covid deaths that are over-80s has been consistently falling throughout January (this is data for English hospitals only). Maybe an early sign that the vaccine program is having some effect?

pubchart

Interesting. Although proportion of deaths tricky to interpret. Is there a decline in absolute numbers?

Also. What was the sequence of roll out? 80+ year olds all vaccinated before 70-80 year olds?
 
Interesting. Although proportion of deaths tricky to interpret. Is there a decline in absolute numbers?

Also. What was the sequence of roll out? 80+ year olds all vaccinated before 70-80 year olds?

Group 1 was care homes, then over 80s and healthcare workers, so over 80s would have been jabbed before 75-80s.

Absolute numbers of deaths have been coming down, but only since mid-january, and it would appear reduction in deaths of >80s is coming faster than the other age groups.

It's not solid evidence, but I think it's a promising early signal.
 
Group 1 was care homes, then over 80s and healthcare workers, so over 80s would have been jabbed before 75-80s.

Absolute numbers of deaths have been coming down, but only since mid-january, and it would appear reduction in deaths of >80s is coming faster than the other age groups.

It's not solid evidence, but I think it's a promising early signal.
Looks really promising to me. If they've got a version with a bit more granularity (over 70s - or even priority group level splits) I'd be hoping to see something similar going on there by the end of the month.

I'm guessing the JCVI are collecting and collating everything they can get hold of at the moment.
 
Group 1 was care homes, then over 80s and healthcare workers, so over 80s would have been jabbed before 75-80s.

Absolute numbers of deaths have been coming down, but only since mid-january, and it would appear reduction in deaths of >80s is coming faster than the other age groups.

It's not solid evidence, but I think it's a promising early signal.

Ok, cool. Definitely promising. Similar to what we saw in Israel.
 
Realistically, maybe volume in Q4 at earliest. Most vaccine makers are still experimenting to see if they need to make a vaccine cocktail or whether a vaccine that targets the SA/Brazil variants will also deal with the others variants (including the UK one). Some vaccines are more suitable than others for booster doses.

We know that Pfizer/Moderna can neutralise the SA variant in the lab, but not as well as they neutralise the original Wuhan and European versions. Neither has SA results from actual humans yet. The guess is that there may be some drop off in efficacy, but we don't know how much. Like J&J and Novavax, they're expected to get good efficacy, and should be very effective against serious illness.
Thanks for this, understood.

So some comfort for who have had the Pfzier jab, and for the wider population to know there is some sort of vaccination available that can prevent serious bouts of the strain. Until they tweak further toward Q4 that is. Good to know.
 
Not sure if this has been highlighted already, but the proportion of Covid deaths that are over-80s has been consistently falling throughout January (this is data for English hospitals only). Maybe an early sign that the vaccine program is having some effect?

pubchart

Good signs, I would hazard a guess that the biggest impact would have been seen in the care home sector. That setting, plus age group, has been the worst hit.
 
Good signs, I would hazard a guess that the biggest impact would have been seen in the care home sector. That setting, plus age group, has been the worst hit.
Good point - might see if I can do the same with the ONS data for place of death
 
Good signs, I would hazard a guess that the biggest impact would have been seen in the care home sector. That setting, plus age group, has been the worst hit.
According to an item I've just heard on the BBC carehome deaths were very high in the last week in January. If that's right then the change is in the over 80s in the community. Potentially significant as in some areas with only Pfizer available they were focusing on the mobile over 80s who could get the vaccine centres.
 
Wouldn't that require that records of previous infections were kept? Doubt the NHS bothered.

Positive swab results are usually linked to NHS numbers and visible on primary care clinical softwares, a significant proportion of positive swab results are linked to patient's GP records (some are not visible, usually by patient choice when booking test). Usually when I'm consulting patients who are post-covid or tell me they've had it before, vast majority of them I can see the positive swab result and its read-coded.
 
Positive swab results are usually linked to NHS numbers and visible on primary care clinical softwares, a significant proportion of positive swab results are linked to patient's GP records (some are not visible, usually by patient choice when booking test). Usually when I'm consulting patients who are post-covid or tell me they've had it before, vast majority of them I can see the positive swab result and its read-coded.

ok, excellent answer. Cheers.
 
According to an item I've just heard on the BBC carehome deaths were very high in the last week in January. If that's right then the change is in the over 80s in the community. Potentially significant as in some areas with only Pfizer available they were focusing on the mobile over 80s who could get the vaccine centres.

Yeah you're right - https://www.carehomeprofessional.com/breaking-news-weekly-covid-care-home-deaths-approach-2000-mark/

Really encouraging news that the impact of vaccinations is being seen in the community.
 
Came sooner than I expected I admit, also I thought they would sort to age within a cohort, do 69 then 68 etc, but they don't seem to have. Preston are banging ahead, and the main vaccination centre here isn't even open yet, also ahead are Bolton and Blackburn. Wigan behind. We got a text off the doctor, so if you're not sure whether your doctor has your current mobile number I'd drop a note through their door.

I got a call today, going for my vaccination tomorrow- happy days.
 
Remember, before we had any results from any of the trials, the benchmark for a successful vaccine was 50% efficiacy in stopping serious illness. Not infection or mild illness, but serious illness. If the participants still got infected but got seriously ill at a rate of 50% or less than the placebo group, that would have been considered a success and enough to get authorisation from most international bodies. Considering all the current signs are that even against the variants all the current vaccines massively exceed this and protect almost fully against serious illness or death, so why is there all this talk that the variants may require further restrictions? The sell of restrictions in the first place was to protect the NHS and save lives, so why may we still be in them if/when the vaccine starts doing that bit for us? Why are the goalposts being moved? I get it's not great that the protection against mild and moderate illness seems to be reduced against some variants, but the protection against hospital admissions and death's look to be beyond even the most optimistic best case scenario's.

That’s not true. 50% efficacy expectation set by the regulators was always about symptomatic illness. Severity didn’t come into it. And that’s the only endpoint for which all the currently available vaccines have enough evidence for a license. They’re all showing trends towards reductions in serious illness/hospitalisations/deaths but not yet in big enough numbers to be licensed on that basis.