Paul Pogba / turned down United offer of 300k as “nothing”

Jam said:
By that merit we can’t talk or criticise about any semi-pro onwards players?

Are observers not allowed opinion because we don’t have comparable traits?

Where did I even begin to compare my footballing abilities, or mentality with Pogba’s? I wasn’t I was comparing Pogba’s mentality to Fernandes’ - do you think they aren’t comparable? Looking at the past season and a half who do you think has gave more to the club?

I think I must have missed the World Cup final that United played in, which tournament was that? Hell I don’t even see Pogba playing in our last Champion’s League finals!
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You’re not criticising the player though, you’re using some pseudo-psychology to talk about his mentality. There are plenty of justified examples of Pogba being underwhelming on the pitch to point to, but you question his mentality despite him being one of the accomplished players in the squad.

As far as comparable traits & your footballing acumen, not sure where that’s come from. abilities. I was talking about your ability to determine his mental capabilities based on watching play football 1/2 times a week, pictures on social media & heavily doctored interviews we see/read.

We all criticise players performances on this forum, that’s a tangible thing that plays out. Again, that isn’t what you were doing.

As for your last paragraph, we may as well sell the squad based on that drivel.
 
crossy1686 said:
I was hoping the Pogba circus was going to be gone and done by the time the league started but it’s not is it :(

We’re going to have to listen to journo’s ask about his contract every week and hear Raiola soundbites constantly until somethings resolved.
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The only circus will be on this forum.


If he stays (which I have always said will happen) he will play a massive role for the club next season and will enjoy himself like every other player. There is a weird segment of the fan base that continuously attack him, even during an international competition and over a summer where he hasn't said that much, or enough to get the pitchforks out.
Remember cristiano's comment about being a slave? Look how much he is idolised and had been since the summer of 09.

Raiola is a cnut I will give you that but Pogba is one of our own. He has spent alot of his time in the North west and loves the club.
 
MDFC Manager said:
I've said it a few times now, with Pogba the hate is quite personal. And that's here's which is a sanitised place. Don't even want to imagine the abuse on other online platforms.
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This is it in one sentence.

Posters make comments as if they’ve met the man that contradict the large majority of positive comments that come from his teammates etc.

Bruno spoke about how he helped him look for a house & really made him feel welcome [one of many positive stories] yet posters will still tell you he’s a ‘cancer’ in the dressing room etc.

His performances aren’t simply criticised cause he’s crap [something he has been many times for us], it’s always because he ‘can’t be arsed’, ‘trying to be smart’ etc.

@Vanrouge has hit the nail on the head elsewhere in this post.
 
I feel like the conversation has been taken out of our hands. The only party it suits for Pogba to leave in this window, is United. We have no say at this stage.
 
RedDevil@84 said:
Everyone would want him for free of course. But he will only go where he would get maximum salary and his agent gets lots of money.
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Not everyone. There will be smart teams who will look at him say there is no way they are going to be paying him what he might be asking for, even if he was a free signing
 
Vanrouge said:
Maybe have a little google about the use of terms such as "lazy" when directed at Black people. Maybe it hadn't occurred to you, but thanks to the oversensitivity of many white folks when this topic is raised, some of us prefer to go in more nuanced. It has nothing to do with courage; it's more to do with allowing for the predictable defensiveness and trying to raise the issue without accusation. Not everyone who attacks Pogba is a racist, in other words, whereas some are. And they know who they are; it's not up to me to decide who is and who isn't. Easy to accuse someone of lacking "balls" when you can hide behind a screen, my "brave" friend. ;)
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So we're not allowed to think a player can be lazy just because some racists use it to stereotype black people? The only "oversensitivity" is from people like you who just assume racism is the cause of all things. I'm going to give people the benefit of the doubt that people dislike Pogba for legitimate reasons (as there are many) and not racism. But sure keep thinking racism is always the answer.
 
Focusmate said:
Hiya - I personally struggling to get my head round this. Calling a player lazy is pretty common - whatever the pigment of their skin. No sure if im being ignorant or your view is more of an american viewpoint? How is calling a player who doesnt put his heart into it lazy somehow racist? No one would ever accuse Rashford of being lazy….
Maybe im an ignorant white guy but it feels like you are saying racist to someone who just doesnt like a certain player?
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I don't think he was saying that. Least I hope not.
 
Give him the 400k a week he wants. He's a special special player im convinced if he didn't get injured in February/March time (When ever it was he got that injury) we'd of been in a title race come may that's how important he is! I can't for the life of me understand why some fans wanna see a player with his quality leave the football club it blows my mind. Moments like what he done against Spurs in the first game back from the covid break he comes on and completely changes the game by beating his man and winning the penalty, done it against AC Milan in the Europa aswell and thats just a few examples. He's got things in his locker no player in the world has!
 
Imagine being shocked that some of the criticism in here could be down to racism and stereotypes. With all that's been going on in the last few years...
 
crossy1686 said:
I was hoping the Pogba circus was going to be gone and done by the time the league started but it’s not is it :(

We’re going to have to listen to journo’s ask about his contract every week and hear Raiola soundbites constantly until somethings resolved.
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I think it’s worse if he leaves and we have to deal with the Paul Pogba thread being bumped every time he scores a worldie for PSG. Look at how toxic the Lukaku thread can get
 
predator said:
The only circus will be on this forum.


If he stays (which I have always said will happen) he will play a massive role for the club next season and will enjoy himself like every other player. There is a weird segment of the fan base that continuously attack him, even during an international competition and over a summer where he hasn't said that much, or enough to get the pitchforks out.
Remember cristiano's comment about being a slave? Look how much he is idolised and had been since the summer of 09.

Raiola is a cnut I will give you that but Pogba is one of our own. He has spent alot of his time in the North west and loves the club.
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Can't even be mentioned in the same breath as Ronaldo, especially in terms of his standing with supporters. Ronaldo gave everything for United, won us so much and was a model professional. We always knew he wanted Madrid at some point, yet he gave us another year when asked and played amazing. No hard feelings towards him from any United supporters.

Pogba on the other hand. Came for huge money, massive fanfare, media circus, arguing with managers during hard times for the club and supporters. He's been inconsistent to say the least and still wants more money, acting like he's got the club over a barrel. Every year talk of leaving and he never squashes it out reassures that he wants to stay.

The guy is an absolute joke and those that defend him are mugs. He's taking the piss out of you all because he doesn't care about United or the supporters, only his legacy and pay cheque.
 
pratyush_utd said:
We are negotiating a huge contract for Bruno if reports are to be believed and Rashford was given a bumper contract 2 years back when he 21. Think when he renews, he will earn close to what we are offering Pogba.

And Rio salary was much higher than Vidic. I don't remember by how much though but I will try to find something and post here.

Again salary include the money we pay for image rights and it's not a very simple comparison then. Bruno and Pogba might get same base salary ( Pogba base salary is rumoured to be 144k by football leaks document) but image rights maybe double or triple depending on the player profile. Then when it is divided by weeks, you start seeing the difference. This is lost on so many here as they just see the final value
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Fair points. I would hope that a large chunk of his wage is due to his brand/image. Because if we are going to give him the sort of money it’s going to take for him to stay then there’s going to be a queue of players looking for a lot more money and we don’t want to end up where Barca and Real are.

For what it’s worth I’d be happy if he signs a new contract that works for both parties He’s a massive talent and can win games off his own boot.
Just tired of the circus that he and his agent creates while helping to improve his brand at the expense of the clubs, also don’t love how he’s more or less holding the club to ransom.
 
We no longer have the Zebra kit so I expect his productivity to go down since he played better with Zebra costume on.
 
Focusmate said:
Hiya - I personally struggling to get my head round this. Calling a player lazy is pretty common - whatever the pigment of their skin. No sure if im being ignorant or your view is more of an american viewpoint? How is calling a player who doesnt put his heart into it lazy somehow racist? No one would ever accuse Rashford of being lazy….
Maybe im an ignorant white guy but it feels like you are saying racist to someone who just doesnt like a certain player?
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It's not only in the US. I'm not in the US. It's almost as if everyone forgot why Ron Atkinson (to use just one example) was fired in disgrace! As I said to the other person, you can easily google all this and find plenty of information. I shouldn't have to do the research for you. The internet is available to you and others equally. I don't want to quote from them, even though they're largely academic as the stereotypes are simply that cruel and hurtful. It's shocking to me that people claim to be ignorant of this stuff. The irony is that people trying to push back against the existence of this racist trope are themselves too lazy and oblivious to learn about it.
 
Flytan said:
So we're not allowed to think a player can be lazy just because some racists use it to stereotype black people? The only "oversensitivity" is from people like you who just assume racism is the cause of all things. I'm going to give people the benefit of the doubt that people dislike Pogba for legitimate reasons (as there are many) and not racism. But sure keep thinking racism is always the answer.
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"People like you." That already says plenty. I'm going to stop engaging with you as you don't seem willing to discuss things rationally. Racism is the answer to nothing; it's a blight in our world. But you know that, don't you? What you're claiming I'm saying is not what I'm actually saying. It never ceases to amaze me that whenever someone raises the issue of possible racism, there are a few people willing to shout them down and use dismissive language such as "people like you," instead of just listening.
 
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Vanrouge said:
"People like you." That already says plenty. I'm going to stop engaging with you as you don't seem willing to discuss things rationally. Racism is the answer to nothing; it's a blight in our world. But you know that, don't you? What you're claiming I'm saying is not what I'm actually saying. It never ceases to amaze me that whenever someone raises the issue of possible racism, there are a few people willing to shout them down and use dismissive language such as "people like you."
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How on earth is "people like you" offensive? What? I'm saying people who think like you. How else do I word it?
 
I'll try again. No one, including me, is saying that it's definitely racism behind the antipathy toward Pogba. What some of us are saying is that historical racist tropes are often being used to denigrate him, so it's certainly a possibility that racism, whether overt or subconscious, is behind some of the surprisingly vehement dislike shown to him from so many quarters. That's it.
 
Flytan said:
How on earth is "people like you" offensive? What? I'm saying people who think like you. How else do I word it?
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There was everything wrong in that entire sentence. "Oversensitivity." Why not go all out and call me a snowflake, lol? (Trust me, I'm no snowflake.) Then you throw in "people like you," which as I said is dismissive. Then you pretend to read my mind with "who just assume racism is the cause of all things." No, I don't do that. I look at evidence. I've learned the history of racism and the use of certain tropes that have been used to shore up white supremacy over the centuries. I assume nothing, but I have a brain and eyes and ears and the capacity to learn, and some of the attacks on Paul Pogba have seemed depressingly familiar. I say it even more clearly and simply in post #3,862 in this thread.
 
Vanrouge said:
There was everything wrong in that entire sentence. "Oversensitivity." Why not go all out and call me a snowflake, lol? (Trust me, I'm no snowflake.) Then you throw in "people like you," which as I said is dismissive. Then you pretend to read my mind with "who just assume racism is the cause of all things." No, I don't do that. I look at evidence. I've learned the history of racism and the use of certain tropes that have been used to shore up white supremacy over the centuries. I assume nothing, but I have a brain and eyes and ears and the capacity to learn, and some of the attacks on Paul Pogba have seemed depressingly familiar. I say it even more clearly and simply in post #3,862 in this thread.
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Of course it looks familiar to you. You're trying to find it. Are people racist towards pogba? Sure: but there's nothing in this thread that I've seen where the first thought in your head should be "this person is racist". Obviously you'll disagree because you've already reached your conclusion about it all. And yes, you're acting like a snowflake if the phrase "people like you" sets you off. Have fun
 
Flytan said:
Of course it looks familiar to you. You're trying to find it. Are people racist towards pogba? Sure: but there's nothing in this thread that I've seen where the first thought in your head should be "this person is racist". Obviously you'll disagree because you've already reached your conclusion about it all. And yes, you're acting like a snowflake if the phrase "people like you" sets you off. Have fun
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Again, I'm not "trying to find it." I'm just not an oblivious person or a defensive person. I don't think it's present any more or less in this thread than everywhere else. But when I see him described as "lazy," see him criticized for his hair, ffs, and see attacks on his "entourage," I know what I'm seeing as we've seen it all before, and it's quite honestly depressing at this point that there are still people desperately trying to deny the existence of these historic slurs and cruelties. But you do you. It's a genuine shame you're not interested in listening and perhaps learning. Peace out.
 
lex talionis said:
I say take the risk of Pogba walking away. We’ve brought in two world class players and are now a legitimate contender for the PL and CL.

Say we sell Pogba. You can say goodbye to any conversation about the PL and CL this year. And what would we get? At most 40-45m.
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But Pogba is a far better player than De Gea was. And Pogba is easily worth 30 mil or more if he just signs his contract. Pogba is wanted by many clubs for 30 mil unlike De gea. You are essentially kissing goodbye to 30 mil if you just let him go off on a free like this.
 
Vanrouge said:
Again, I'm not "trying to find it." I'm just not an oblivious person or a defensive person. I don't think it's present any more or less in this thread than everywhere else. But when I see him described as "lazy," see him criticized for his hair, ffs, and see attacks on his "entourage," I know what I'm seeing as we've seen it all before, and it's quite honestly depressing at this point that there are still people desperately trying to deny the existence of these historic slurs and cruelties. But you do you. It's a genuine shame you're not interested in listening and perhaps learning. Peace out.
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Shaw was criticized for both his entourage and being lazy. Sorry bro but you're attributing racism (of course it could be racism) when there's a much more obvious reason why people dislike him. But sure when it's said about pogba it reminds you that these people are racist
 
lex talionis said:
I say take the risk of Pogba walking away. We’ve brought in two world class players and are now a legitimate contender for the PL and CL.

Say we sell Pogba. You can say goodbye to any conversation about the PL and CL this year. And what would we get? At most 40-45m.
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Probably a better fit into the team over a good player who can't operate effectively in the role the manager wants. Ole desperately wants him to be in a midfield 2, it just doesn't work. I don't think anyone bar City are getting the league as they're going to upgrade a team that was already well ahead of it's rivals. Oh and as Locatelli is available this summer for under 40 million and we've just signed one of the best defenders on the planet for 41 million, it shows this summer, there are deals to be done, so any fee would seriously be helpful in getting in the right player.
Pogba stays as he's going to battle it out with Rashford and Martial for the left side of the attack, so we're pretty stacked there to be honest. I believe he'll stay and leave summer 2022 for his big pay day before retirement. I'd personally rather the club sold him as things stand, but would love it if he could develop into the player Ole wants him to be.
 
Vanrouge said:
Again, I'm not "trying to find it." I'm just not an oblivious person or a defensive person. I don't think it's present any more or less in this thread than everywhere else. But when I see him described as "lazy," see him criticized for his hair, ffs, and see attacks on his "entourage," I know what I'm seeing as we've seen it all before, and it's quite honestly depressing at this point that there are still people desperately trying to deny the existence of these historic slurs and cruelties. But you do you. It's a genuine shame you're not interested in listening and perhaps learning. Peace out.
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Beckham was criticised for his hair. And his lifestyle. Berbatov and Shaw were heavily criticised for being lazy. Rooney was just as polarising a figure to the fanbase as Pogba, and for many of the same reasons, particularly his agent and his behaviour around contract renewals, and he's the club's record goalscorer for christ sake.

They're not slurs if they are accurate. And they're only historic in the sense that they have been criticisms in football that are used ubiquitously across all races.
 
lex talionis said:
I say take the risk of Pogba walking away. We’ve brought in two world class players and are now a legitimate contender for the PL and CL.

Say we sell Pogba. You can say goodbye to any conversation about the PL and CL this year. And what would we get? At most 40-45m.
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40-45m would be a decent price for Pogba (aged 28) in the current pandemic effected financial climate. He is not the most consistent star is he?
 
pocco said:
Can't even be mentioned in the same breath as Ronaldo, especially in terms of his standing with supporters. Ronaldo gave everything for United, won us so much and was a model professional. We always knew he wanted Madrid at some point, yet he gave us another year when asked and played amazing. No hard feelings towards him from any United supporters.

Pogba on the other hand. Came for huge money, massive fanfare, media circus, arguing with managers during hard times for the club and supporters. He's been inconsistent to say the least and still wants more money, acting like he's got the club over a barrel. Every year talk of leaving and he never squashes it out reassures that he wants to stay.

The guy is an absolute joke and those that defend him are mugs. He's taking the piss out of you all because he doesn't care about United or the supporters, only his legacy and pay cheque.
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Bang on.

Those mugs remind me very well of the Joseboys back then. They'll disappear once Pogba is gone, just like when Jose was gone.

In the mean time just ignore them for the better of your mental health, that's what I learn from the Jose time. There's no point in arguing with them because they'll simply ignore your valid arguments, refuse to recognise any truth and deliberately twist any word you say or intentionally stir the debate away if their argument is too dumb. For example now criticising Pogba for being lazy is somehow racist ffs :wenger:

Tbh I couldn't believe people would be like that without some big agenda behind. Which remind me of this:

Strelok said:
Reading this thread reminds me of a clip I watched a while ago. It was mostly about the incident in the match against Palace where Pogba lost the ball, jogged about and Bruno run past him to tackle and got the ball back. For Pogba to lost it again in another second, and he was still jogging like it had nothing to do with him.

Thing is, when I searched for the clip it just magically disappeared from the Internet. It was deleted. You may find an article about that clip here though: https://www.givemesport.com/1601163...lip-of-paul-pogba-during-match-goes-viral?amp

While I was searching for said clip I realized one thing. There are some bad highlights about Fernandes like his dives but not a single bad highlight about Pogba. I couldn't find any.

It would not surprise me if there is some professional PR groups working behind the scenes to protect his image. Like any star who generates huge money from his name. Imo only the blind ones or the ones who don't watch the matches wouldn't see the difference between those two. So some of his fiercest 'fans' here probably are just guys who work for those groups I think.
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hobbers said:
Beckham was criticised for his hair. And his lifestyle. Berbatov and Shaw were heavily criticised for being lazy. Rooney was just as polarising a figure to the fanbase as Pogba, and for many of the same reasons, particularly his agent and his behaviour around contract renewals, and he's the club's record goalscorer for christ sake.

They're not slurs if they are accurate. And they're only historic in the sense that they have been criticisms in football that are used ubiquitously across all races.
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Genuinely one of the most disgusting comments I have ever seen on here. Can we please get the banhammer back out here? This is not what I want to see when I come to talk about football
 
Knightmare7 said:
Genuinely one of the most disgusting comments I have ever seen on here. Can we please get the banhammer back out here? This is not what I want to see when I come to talk about football
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Get a grip. Or are you just incapable of contextualising?

Criticising Beckham and Pogba for being more concerned with their hair or their brands are not slurs. Whether you agree or not with the opinion that they lose focus on football.

Criticising players like Martial and Berbatov for being lazy are not slurs.

Criticising Pogba and Rooney for having slime ball agents and knowingly bending the club over a barrel are, yes you guessed it, also not slurs.
 
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I think it would be best for United to sell him now. I don't think he'll be signing a new contract for any reasonable wage, and leave on a free next year. Get a good replacement for him and we can focus on a striker and a CM next year.

He can be class at times, but with Bruno and Sancho, we now have decent creativity. He can't play in a double pivot and is not consistent enough to warrant a change in formation for his benefit. Also he seems to be a bit injury prone doesn't he?
 
Borys said:
Replace "Pogba" with "bitcoin" and this is a proper crypto currency thread.
First we all know he's going.
Then somebody tweets and everybody thinks he's staying.
Then the cycle repeats.

Just to add something to this madness, I'm confident he's leaving.
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Have you even bothered to see the threads about him going, and compare that to the ones that imply he will be staying or say it out right. I know which come across as more reliable.
But each to his own. I'm confident his staying.
Players leaving usually aren't part of the promotional kit videos for the upcoming season as well.
 
JebelSherif said:
40-45m would be a decent price for Pogba (aged 28) in the current pandemic effected financial climate. He is not the most consistent star is he?
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Id be tempted to swap him for Paredes at PSG. Of course theres always the strong possibility that Pogba has no intention of actually going to PSG. Right now it looks as if hes going to let his contract wind down so hes in the strongest negotiating position with clubs, probably us included.
 
Mark McMaw said:
Give him the 400k a week he wants. He's a special special player im convinced if he didn't get injured in February/March time (When ever it was he got that injury) we'd of been in a title race come may that's how important he is! I can't for the life of me understand why some fans wanna see a player with his quality leave the football club it blows my mind. Moments like what he done against Spurs in the first game back from the covid break he comes on and completely changes the game by beating his man and winning the penalty, done it against AC Milan in the Europa aswell and thats just a few examples. He's got things in his locker no player in the world has!
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Let's not continue to spread the 400k like it's confirmed he is asking for that. We haven't a clue. But going from 290k to 400k sounds silly really. I could imagine he maybe wants to be matched with De Gea who's at 350k. And even that is a massive jump.
But end of the day yes, I do hope he renews and has a big part to play this season.
 
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