Mauricio Amadaeus Pochettino | Chelsea sack watch

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ti vu said:
And in his first 2 years in normal circumstances, he totally dominated the league as expected. The same guy going into a new team then won CL, making cup final, as well as going uphill and achieving top 4.

Across the board, almost all the teams played in later round of EL and CL the previous had slow start. So answer me? How long the vacation PSG team had after the CL final until they had to report back? How long was their pre season? Who missed the first few games? How many games Tuchel lost to relegation battlers in all his time at PSG?

Identifying a target at PSG? You don't know PSG then. One of the main reason Tuchel fell out and led to his dismissal is having no say in transfer. PSG didn't sack him because he was underperforming in the league back then. He's expected to turn it around if he's to stay, which he's more proven to do that.

Poch got cut some slack despite losing out Ligue 1 title by PSG, or he would have got sacked. The pressure built up though since despite better result, the performance was as meh as it was, now that he knows the team, and whatever.
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That’s just excuse after excuse for Tuchel.

If a manager comes in now and outperforms Ole till the end of the season, like feck I’d be absolving Ole of blame and putting the failed season on the new guy who will need at least his first three months to even get his coaching and ideas over to his new players.

That you cut Tuchel slack for a poor pre-season but Poch no slack for zero pre-season and zero slack for how long it takes any new manager to get his coaching and ideas into play with a new team is absolutely laughable.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
That you cut Tuchel slack for a poor pre-season but Poch no slack for zero pre-season and zero slack for how long it takes any new manager to get his coaching and ideas into play with a new team is absolutely laughable.
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This excuse worked the first couple of months and i was the first to say he needed time when he arrived. But we're now almost a year after he started and there's still nothing interesting to see. We had our 1st full half of good football in Ligue 1 last week against Nantes, 14 games into the season.

After a year you should start to see what a coach is trying to achieve, it took FAR less time than that with Blanc, Emery or Tuchel. And i'm not even talking about coaches like Conte who can reshape a team in a month or 2. If Pochettino wants a club where he has no pressure for results and 5 years to developp a project, he should stick to midtable clubs.
 
estel_manutd said:
I *think* the state of play re: Poch is as follows:

- He would like to get more control of football matters at PSG
- He is using United's interest as a ploy to get said control - he did something similar over the summer by using Spurs interest to get a contract extension
- PSG would be more than happy to replace Poch with Zidane as they think Zidance might help them keep Mbappe
- Poch is United's first choice but they are wary that Poch is just using their interest - therefore, they have leaked stories about Valverde
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I hope you're wrong, because that would imply that Poch doesn't actually want the job. If Poch doesn't want the job, and neither does Zidane or Enrique, that leaves ETH, and I don't think we'll even be his first choice either.

Just when you think we're finally in a good position with good options, you can suddenly start to see the next disastrous situation forming on the horizon.
 
estel_manutd said:
I *think* the state of play re: Poch is as follows:

- He would like to get more control of football matters at PSG
- He is using United's interest as a ploy to get said control - he did something similar over the summer by using Spurs interest to get a contract extension
- PSG would be more than happy to replace Poch with Zidane as they think Zidance might help them keep Mbappe
- Poch is United's first choice but they are wary that Poch is just using their interest - therefore, they have leaked stories about Valverde
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I don't think hes playing chess with PSG. The United job is vacant and he wants it. We are exploring all avenues, as we should.
 
Escobar said:
What did he win? How close was he?
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Didn't win anything and bottling are 2 different things.

Do you actually think Spurs were 10 point clear at the top or they played a underrated team in the CL final? NO.
 
Pronewbie said:
I share the same concerns, considering we also have an unbalanced squad. But he’s our best short-term bet and I just hope if he proves to be average at best, we tap up someone like ETH for the next season.
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It seems our concerns are growing, looking at the alternatives. Whatever the choice, it will feel a bit underwhelming and I fear the players will feel the same.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
That’s just excuse after excuse for Tuchel.

If a manager comes in now and outperforms Ole till the end of the season, like feck I’d be absolving Ole of blame and putting the failed season on the new guy who will need at least his first three months to even get his coaching and ideas over to his new players.

That you cut Tuchel slack for a poor pre-season but Poch no slack for zero pre-season and zero slack for how long it takes any new manager to get his coaching and ideas into play with a new team is absolutely laughable.
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Just to refer back to the original point for this, it was because Amadeus Pochettino said:

it was more so that tuchel bottled the league than Poch.
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All other comparisons are a bit futile, but it was hardly like Tuchel left PSG anywhere near how a manager usually does when they are binned - they were 1 point off the top of Ligue 1, behind Lille and Lyon. Pochettino recovered that point but then lost to Lille, who were second, with 8 games to play. They lost the league by a point again.

As has been pointed out, Pochettino had more games in the league than Tuchel, so what I was trying to point out was that Tuchel actually had nothing to do with the end result - the best Pochettino could do was win as many points as Galtier did for Lille.

There could be no greater definition of "bottling" than being joint top of the league, with a handful of games left, and losing the very next game against that other team, who went on to win the league.

It's as if people are saying Poch only didn't win the league with PSG because he didn't get given a head start. It's PSG ffs, in Ligue 1. It's like putting City with their current squad in the Championship
 
cjj said:
Just to refer back to the original point for this, it was because Amadeus Pochettino said:



All other comparisons are a bit futile, but it was hardly like Tuchel left PSG anywhere near how a manager usually does when they are binned - they were 1 point off the top of Ligue 1, behind Lille and Lyon. Pochettino recovered that point but then lost to Lille, who were second, with 8 games to play. They lost the league by a point again.

As has been pointed out, Pochettino had more games in the league than Tuchel, so what I was trying to point out was that Tuchel actually had nothing to do with the end result - the best Pochettino could do was win as many points as Galtier did for Lille.

There could be no greater definition of "bottling" than being joint top of the league, with a handful of games left, and losing the very next game against that other team, who went on to win the league.

It's as if people are saying Poch only didn't win the league with PSG because he didn't get given a head start. It's PSG ffs, in Ligue 1. It's like putting City with their current squad in the Championship
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While the best Tuchel could do was win one point less than Galtier at Lille :)
 
hellhunter said:
While the best Tuchel could do was win one point less than Galtier at Lille :)
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Which he was sacked for, in less games. So he's not really any better than the worse version of Tuchel, right?
 
cjj said:
Which he was sacked for, in less games. So he's not really any better than the worse version of Tuchel, right?
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According to @JPRouve, he wasn't really sacked for footballing reasons, but I have no clue, to be honest. In my opinion they both 'bottled' the league, neithers results were good enough considering PSGs resources.
 
hellhunter said:
According to @JPRouve, he wasn't really sacked for footballing reasons, but I have no clue, to be honest. In my opinion they both 'bottled' the league, neithers results were good enough considering PSGs resources.
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I guess so - the main difference between many of those that get compared is that Poch did that kind of thing a lot at spurs, despite relative "success", and could never get us over the line when it mattered. People who obsess over him blamed literally everyone/thing else for that, and said that the style of play was "stale" players and not getting having players good enough etc, and him going to PSG was seen as the chance for evidence to prove that Poch is some super-coach. It just hasn't happened. Some of the best attackers in the world, and a plethora of talent, and it didn't impress anyone. "Needs a pre-season" - had it. Got Messi. Still no different.

There are, rather obviously, lots of United supporters who are absolutely convinced he's some sort of Argentine fergie, but there's far, far more chance that he's the next Argentine solkjaer.
 
hellhunter said:
According to @JPRouve, he wasn't really sacked for footballing reasons, but I have no clue, to be honest. In my opinion they both 'bottled' the league, neithers results were good enough considering PSGs resources.
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Tuchel won everything at the exception of the CL and even then he reached the final in 2020. The start of last season was mainly due to injuries and covid, it's also important to keep in mind that due to the MBappé-Neymar deals PSG didn't have much depth until this season, so if you lost your starters you had midtable Ligue 1 players or kids. So no Tuchel didn't bottle, his issue was his communication through the press aimed at first Antero Henrique who put the squad in a bad state and then Leonardo who didn't fix the issues fast enough for Tuchel.
 
Oly Francis said:
This excuse worked the first couple of months and i was the first to say he needed time when he arrived. But we're now almost a year after he started and there's still nothing interesting to see. We had our 1st full half of good football in Ligue 1 last week against Nantes, 14 games into the season.

After a year you should start to see what a coach is trying to achieve, it took FAR less time than that with Blanc, Emery or Tuchel. And i'm not even talking about coaches like Conte who can reshape a team in a month or 2. If Pochettino wants a club where he has no pressure for results and 5 years to developp a project, he should stick to midtable clubs.
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I’m not arguing what he’s managed to achieve with his coaching so far in fairness, I’m arguing that it’s completely unfair to lay as much or more blame for a league “loss” at a manager who joined mid-season and achieved more points per game than the previous manager. If Tuchel gets a pass due to no pre-season, surely a new manager gets at least as much of a pass for a few months of non-optimal results. The poster I was debating with was happy to absolve Tuchel of blame, yet was giving no leeway to how tough it can be as a new manager to make significant change with no pre-season or time at all to work with the squad.
I actually agree with your point that he’s struggled to install any kind of system so far at PsG.
 
cjj said:
I guess so - the main difference between many of those that get compared is that Poch did that kind of thing a lot at spurs, despite relative "success", and could never get us over the line when it mattered. People who obsess over him blamed literally everyone/thing else for that, and said that the style of play was "stale" players and not getting having players good enough etc, and him going to PSG was seen as the chance for evidence to prove that Poch is some super-coach. It just hasn't happened. Some of the best attackers in the world, and a plethora of talent, and it didn't impress anyone. "Needs a pre-season" - had it. Got Messi. Still no different.

There are, rather obviously, lots of United supporters who are absolutely convinced he's some sort of Argentine fergie, but there's far, far more chance that he's the next Argentine solkjaer.
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No one is convinced he's the next Fergie and in the managerial world, there are about 10 different tiers of managers between Fergie and Solskjær
 
hellhunter said:
According to @JPRouve, he wasn't really sacked for footballing reasons, but I have no clue, to be honest. In my opinion they both 'bottled' the league, neithers results were good enough considering PSGs resources.
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Agreed. I give a little more “leeway” to the new manager coming in mid-season over a guy who has coached the squad for two years. Either way, both didn’t do enough and Tuchel is clearly a top top manager, so using last season as a reason to paint Poch as not good enough makes no sense to me.
 
cjj said:
There are, rather obviously, lots of United supporters who are absolutely convinced he's some sort of Argentine fergie, but there's far, far more chance that he's the next Argentine solkjaer.
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What an utter crock of shit.

He’s so far ahead of OGS it’s untrue, he will likely never be “Fergie”, but few managers are, but feck me there’s a massive massive middle room between SAF and Solksjaer :lol:

He’s already done a cracking job at Southampton, whereas Ole did a terrible one at Cardiff, despite spending much less at Spurs ffs he took them to 86 points (12 more than Ole ever managed) and a CL final (Ole hasn’t made it out of the groups).
Oh, and after Spurs, he was handed the PSG job and is now interesting United, Ole will be lucky if fecking Molde want him back.
 
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cjj said:
There are, rather obviously, lots of United supporters who are absolutely convinced he's some sort of Argentine fergie, but there's far, far more chance that he's the next Argentine solkjaer.
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:lol:
 
cjj said:
I guess so - the main difference between many of those that get compared is that Poch did that kind of thing a lot at spurs, despite relative "success", and could never get us over the line when it mattered. People who obsess over him blamed literally everyone/thing else for that, and said that the style of play was "stale" players and not getting having players good enough etc, and him going to PSG was seen as the chance for evidence to prove that Poch is some super-coach. It just hasn't happened. Some of the best attackers in the world, and a plethora of talent, and it didn't impress anyone. "Needs a pre-season" - had it. Got Messi. Still no different.

There are, rather obviously, lots of United supporters who are absolutely convinced he's some sort of Argentine fergie, but there's far, far more chance that he's the next Argentine solkjaer.
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Are they not top of the league by 11 points and beat city in the CL?
 
pocco said:
I hope you're wrong, because that would imply that Poch doesn't actually want the job. If Poch doesn't want the job, and neither does Zidane or Enrique, that leaves ETH, and I don't think we'll even be his first choice either.

Just when you think we're finally in a good position with good options, you can suddenly start to see the next disastrous situation forming on the horizon.
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Hey you're being very negative again.

Try and be more optimistic
 
TheReligion said:
Are they not top of the league by 11 points and beat city in the CL?
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Doesn't have any bearing at all on what I wrote; Crystal Palace have beaten City, so not sure what that's supposed to mean.
They aren't playing good football, despite having arguably at least 3 of the top 10 (or less) footballers in their attack, a full pre-season etc.

Arguably, you'd have to ask if the football on display is any improvement. I'm sure there are plenty of PSG fans on here giving you that opinion.
 
cjj said:
I guess so - the main difference between many of those that get compared is that Poch did that kind of thing a lot at spurs, despite relative "success", and could never get us over the line when it mattered. People who obsess over him blamed literally everyone/thing else for that, and said that the style of play was "stale" players and not getting having players good enough etc, and him going to PSG was seen as the chance for evidence to prove that Poch is some super-coach. It just hasn't happened. Some of the best attackers in the world, and a plethora of talent, and it didn't impress anyone. "Needs a pre-season" - had it. Got Messi. Still no different.

There are, rather obviously, lots of United supporters who are absolutely convinced he's some sort of Argentine fergie, but there's far, far more chance that he's the next Argentine solkjaer.
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He got Spurs there, there was the CL final, did you really expect to win that against one of the best teams ? He gave you lots a title challenge, something you probably wont get for a while.

Since then, you got a manager that wins trophies everywhere, couldn't do it at Spurs cause they are really a midtable club.

Regards Fergie, I see you are making things up, no one has ever thought he would be anywhere close, but he is definitely better than Ole.
 
cjj said:
Doesn't have any bearing at all on what I wrote; Crystal Palace have beaten City, so not sure what that's supposed to mean.
They aren't playing good football, despite having arguably at least 3 of the top 10 (or less) footballers in their attack, a full pre-season etc.

Arguably, you'd have to ask if the football on display is any improvement. I'm sure there are plenty of PSG fans on here giving you that opinion.
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If you don't know what that's supposed to mean I can't really help you.
 
TheReligion said:
If you don't know what that's supposed to mean I can't really help you.
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Pochettino/PSG and Viera/Palace are around about the same, I guess. Has no other possible meaning, considering teams have always beaten City in the CL.
 


Madrid press reporting Zidane don't want the PSG job, which means PSG are reluctant to let Poch go
 
It just struck me that the last very successful midseason crisis appointment came from PSG and our only saviour until a few weeks ago is now at Tottenham, stars aligning, the chosen one, etc.

That curious shit aside, I like him. Has all the good attributes Ole had and addresses his shortcomings. Titles? When did Spurs last win anything?
 
cjj said:
I guess so - the main difference between many of those that get compared is that Poch did that kind of thing a lot at spurs, despite relative "success", and could never get us over the line when it mattered. People who obsess over him blamed literally everyone/thing else for that, and said that the style of play was "stale" players and not getting having players good enough etc, and him going to PSG was seen as the chance for evidence to prove that Poch is some super-coach. It just hasn't happened. Some of the best attackers in the world, and a plethora of talent, and it didn't impress anyone. "Needs a pre-season" - had it. Got Messi. Still no different.

There are, rather obviously, lots of United supporters who are absolutely convinced he's some sort of Argentine fergie, but there's far, far more chance that he's the next Argentine solkjaer.
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I'm not sure getting Messi now is the blessing you make it out to be especially when you have a modern day Neymar and Mbappe in that attack as well

I'm sure Poch would trade the current PSG front 3 for the 3 he had at Spurs when they were at their peak under him
 
Reports saying Zidane is blocking Poch joining United because he doesn't want to join PSG mid season. Meh.
 
#07 said:


Madrid press reporting Zidane don't want the PSG job, which means PSG are reluctant to let Poch go
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Can't we just give them Phelan or something?
 
romufc said:
He got Spurs there, there was the CL final, did you really expect to win that against one of the best teams ? He gave you lots a title challenge, something you probably wont get for a while.

Since then, you got a manager that wins trophies everywhere, couldn't do it at Spurs cause they are really a midtable club.

Regards Fergie, I see you are making things up, no one has ever thought he would be anywhere close, but he is definitely better than Ole.
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Don’t waste your time with that poster. It’s clear you won’t change his mind regarding Poch, and him being a Spurs fan automatically makes him a Poch “expert”. Been reading his posts and trying to find any shred of substance as to why he thinks Poch is such a bad manager but to no avail. As for the Fergie reference, it’s just a classic tactic to resort to smart remarks to make himself sound smart and to deflect substance. Nothing to see here.

Not really sure who he really thinks is a better candidate. I’m guessing ETH but he’s an even more lesser known entity than Poch in the PL. Not discrediting ETH on any way , but I can’t comprehend how someone can be on board with ETH and be very anti Poch at the same time. Cultism is a real thing.
 
#07 said:


Madrid press reporting Zidane don't want the PSG job, which means PSG are reluctant to let Poch go
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It doesn't say he doesn't want it, it says that at the moment he's giving them the cold shoulder because he's focused on other projects. Maybe it comes down to whether those projects materialise.

Also, AS can be pretty unreliable.
 
I think he'd do fine here, but I don't think we'd win anything. I think we'd be solid top 4 regulars, and we might get close in a couple of cups. Enough? I don't see it.
 
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