Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

TMDaines said:
You've already seen Syria. Now Ukraine. What are you going to appease next?
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Childish response. Thankfully the western government aren't as childish as some of you and are actually being balanced with their actions.
 
Buster15 said:
The F35 and EF Typhoon carry out different roles. Typhoon is far better at air to air.
While the F35 is nothing like as good at that, it is better at ground attack.
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Yeah, they carry out different roles and in fairness to the F-35, it's really not priced that badly in comparison... The F-22 on the other hand...
 
Gambit said:
Regardless, this has brought forward the end of Putin. I can't see anyway out of it for him.
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There is a much higher possibility of seeing Ukraine become putin's vassal state rather than the end of putin, if Zelenskyy is dead.
 
the_cliff said:
I'm a bit sceptical in terms of the sanctions hurting Russia tbh.

From what I'm hearing it looks like Russian Gas is still being pumped to the EU and is still being paid for ?

Is that not possible if being removed from swift ?
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botond said:
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Mike Smalling said:


This is no longer in the consideration phase - they have just publicly announced that they are suspending all container shipments to and from Russia. Couldn't find an updated news story in English though.

Not sure how big a share of Russia's import and export that is, but it must be a huge blow for their economy. Most likely other shipping companies will follow suit.

I don't think Putin has any idea what he has actually done. More and more sanctions from governments and companies will follow. The economy will be in ruins very shortly.
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The sanctions will cripple Russia into submission or action to remove Putin

Simply aren’t sustainable for it in the medium to long term
 
sglowrider said:
Its a funny series of convos the past four-five days. Both of us are accusing each other of being suckers to our respective propaganda! My previous experience of this are with Trumpists.

Eventually, you give up and not bother having any discussions other than asking the time or matters of such trivialities. At some point the world will grind to a halt.
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I think that's the exact idea. Public trust degraded to the point where people can't see good from bad, right from wrong, honest from dishonest. It's divide and conquer tactics.
 
Water Melon said:
That's is exactly why WW II lasted so long. And if not for USSR and allies who joined in and 30-40 million people dying there would be a very different Europe now.

I have no doubt that if Ukraine are not helped significantly, we will see a new Ukraine pretty soon. A ruler of this country will be the Botox face's puppet. That time around you will have a much more real threat. Moreoever, you will be fully dependent on Russia's gas and wheat. Sanctions would be gradually lifted too, cause make no mistake, when people in Russia start to starve the botox face will use the nuke card again.
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I’m baffled people don’t get that, if we retreat now in few years it will be Poland/Baltics, and it will be much harder because you’ll now be bordering with Russia instead of Ukraine.
 
Smores said:
Presumably you've thought this through so how many millions dead is acceptable in WW3 to defend Ukraine? 30? 50? 100?

We didn't jump straight into WW2 when Japan invaded China or when Germany took Austria. It took further expansion and the camps.

Russia aren't stupid enough to take on a NATO country. If they did it would inevitably end up with them losing or nuclear annihilation.
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And how did that turn out?
 
Water Melon said:
There is a much higher possibility of seeing Ukraine become putin's vassal state rather than the end of putin, if Zelenskyy is dead.
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If it does, then the sanctions will continue. The world order will move on without Russia being a factor. It's not just the west that's pissed with them.
 
TMDaines said:
It's one of these two outcomes increasingly:

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Well, my point is that I think people are vastly overestimating the chance of Putin getting removed, one way or another.

It's increasingly likely that Ukraine will fall and we'll be stuck in a new normal until Putin kicks the bucket. What if he's alive for another 10, 20 years?

We'll have whole generations growing with this maniac threatening a whole continent.

Now watching Zelensky and BBC seem to have got a bloke off the street to translate. Seriously, I appreciate the emotion but come on...
 
Smores said:
Childish response. Thankfully the western government aren't as childish as some of you and are actually being balanced with their actions.
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Of course they are. They were balanced during the Crimea, LNP and DNP annexations. They will be maintaining the same balance once Ukraine inevitably falls. Only this time around everything will be swept under the carpet, because Europe will be fully dependent on wheat and natural gas. I can guarantee that the botox face will use the nuke card again if people in Russia start to starve. What will thewest do? I guarantee that they will soften the sanctions a lot.
 
I think the tide is changing a little now given the lack of news we are getting (pro Ukraine) over the past 24 hours.

I suspect Russia is exerting some control now.
 
TMDaines said:
You've already seen Syria. Now Ukraine. What are you going to appease next?
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if we jumped to a WW every time the States or Russia invaded a foreign country we'd be in the double figures by now..

I'm pleasantly surprised how active govts are with sanctions in such a short amount of time and that would definitely hurt Russia in time.
 
Rightnr said:
They did yesterday but today it's on BBC and much bigger audience.

Meanwhile, a Ukrainian journalist is ripping Boris a new one
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I did see that. She was basically saying we should remove all russians from western territory and provoke (military) WW3 and by extension nuclear warfare.
 
Gambit said:
If it does, then the sanctions will continue. The world order will move on without Russia being a factor. It's not just the west that's pissed with them.
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Very unlikely, people in Russia will starve and Puting will threaten with nukes again. Do you really believe that sanctions will continue even then?
 
Rajma said:
I’m baffled people don’t get that, if we retreat now in few years it will be Poland/Baltics, and it will be much harder because you’ll now be bordering with Russia instead of Ukraine.
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agree on not backing down but he’s never invading Poland in a million years
 
MUFC OK said:
I did see that. She was basically saying we should remove all russians from western territory and provoke (military) WW3 and by extension nuclear warfare.
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Well, Putin is threatening war on the West's way of life.

In times of war, you expel the aggressor's citizens. Some people seem to be struggling to catch up.

Also, the lady in question was clearly very emotional, as anyone would be if their home is being bombed and you're seeing supporting with thoughts and prayers. I know NATO cannot fight but I sure as hell get the sentiment.
 
How long before the sanctions start making the life of an average rural Putin supporter difficult?
 
spiriticon said:
If Putin wins the war and is not removed and we go "Meh, back to normal life", we are fecked. It allows China and North Korea to see that what Russia is doing is possible, that the 'West' is weak, afraid of hardship, and will conform to their will in time to come.

Boris wasn't joking when he said Putin must fail. He must or it is an existential threat to our governments.
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This is hyperbolic nonsense, do you see China as some sort of evil empire that is waiting in the aisles to take over the world?
 
Tarrou said:
agree on not backing down but he’s never invading Poland in a million years
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"Never" is a strong word. I would say he's not currently thinking about it seriously and leave it at that.

I bet he wasn't seriously thinking of invading Ukraine 10 years ago either though.
 
Rajma said:
What will be the difference then?
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Exactly, if the botox face is ready to use nukes in a war against Ukraine, he will be fecking up for it when his own citizens start feeling the heat really bad.
 
Conor said:
This is hyperbolic nonsense, do you see China as some sort of evil empire that is waiting in the aisles to take over the world?
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Do you get the impression they are very friendly to the West? That they embrace Western culture and governments?

They are not evil, but that doesn't mean they won't welcome a bigger influence on the world order.
 
Conor said:
This is hyperbolic nonsense, do you see China as some sort of evil empire that is waiting in the aisles to take over the world?
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He'd be right to make that assumption. Take over the world is a bit strong, but big chunks of South East Asia? Yep, I can see that.

China are despicable and I wish we could cut ties.
 
Tarrou said:
agree on not backing down but he’s never invading Poland in a million years
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Maybe not Poland because it's a big country and it's a hard sell to convince anyone it's traditionally Russian.

The Baltics, on the other hand... they could easily be next.
 
It is ridiculous to suggest that policy of indifference and inacting will help us avoid a new World War.

If anything, WW2 teaches us that it is precisely what may lead us into next war. Anyone not remembering well enough should repeat a history lesson on Edvard Beneš and Czechoslovakia in years leading up to WW2, and how European leading countries at that time were way more concerned in appeasing Hitler, hoping that by taking smaller countries around will eventually satisfy him enough.

Yes, the Europe is way more united now, but it is ridiculous to suggest not getting involved further will calm Putin down and cut his ambitions.
 
Conor said:
This is hyperbolic nonsense, do you see China as some sort of evil empire that is waiting in the aisles to take over the world?
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Go read some history. China will make hay if people like you don't wake up.
 
Buster15 said:
The F35 and EF Typhoon carry out different roles. Typhoon is far better at air to air.
While the F35 is nothing like as good at that, it is better at ground attack.
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In a close in dogfight. Pilots who graduated from 4.5 gen fighters always say the sensor fusion on the F35 gives it a big advantage over them despite it's lower performance stats, and forgetting the stealth element.
 
spiriticon said:
Do you get the impression they are very friendly to the West? That they embrace Western culture and governments?

They are not evil, but that doesn't mean they won't welcome a bigger influence on the world order.
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IWat said:
He'd be right to make that assumption. Take over the world is a bit strong, but big chunks of South East Asia? Yep, I can see that.

China are despicable and I wish we could cut ties.
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Rightnr said:
Go read some history. China will make hay if people like you don't wake up.
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China are probably a bit ahead of the US on the despicable scale, I will give you that. Some of you in this thread are going on like this is a movie and it's scaremongering nonsense, fed to people by war mongering governments and institutions that are half the reason shit like this constantly happens in the world.
 
Smores said:
Childish response. Thankfully the western government aren't as childish as some of you and are actually being balanced with their actions.
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Well if the sanctions don't stop Putin, are you arguing that we don't do anything else and that we should leave him to it?
 
spiriticon said:
Do you get the impression they are very friendly to the West? They are not evil, but that doesn't mean they won't welcome a bigger influence on the world order.
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The Chinese people are very friendly to the west, the same anti-west sentiment isn't really there. Although considering posters like that like to keep projecting China as an empire in waiting they're probably going to end up pushed away from westernisation.
 
Conor said:
This is hyperbolic nonsense, do you see China as some sort of evil empire that is waiting in the aisles to take over the world?
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China feeling emboldened (by the West's inability to protect Ukraine) to take Taiwan would be enough to create a similar situation at the other end of the world.
 
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