Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

IWat said:
Yep, the entire lot. Spend it somewhere useful. There are enough countries that need help.
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Disgusting you should be ashamed. That's millions of people living through humanitarian crises you're talking about.
 
Beans said:
If the world calls his bluff, Putin will be in a very weak position, which is undoubtedly very dangerous. If the EU accepts Ukraine, agrees to defend it and the US agrees to help, it will take time for this to build up. In that time Putin could level Ukraine entirely, he could expand this army into other regions (assuming they can manage it), use chemical and biological attacks on Europe then retreat to Russia and use nukes on anyone trying to enter Russia (if you hit troops only with smaller nukes this doesn't necessitate a full launch by the other side) either in Russia or right outside the border.

But none of that benefits Putin, it just hurts his enemy. You have to wonder how China would react, they have nukes too! They won't be happy at the idea of Russia destroying the world. I could see China making the peace, but only if the West actually engages Russia.
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Both the US and Russia have been proclaiming for decades that any nuclear attack in them regardless of size is subject to a full retaliation.
 
This idea that Putin is a crazy looney tunes like Hiteler is pure propoganda. Not a chance he tries to take on a Nato country or fire Nukes. He's an arsehole not a mad man.
 
Beans said:
If the world calls his bluff, Putin will be in a very weak position, which is undoubtedly very dangerous. If the EU accepts Ukraine, agrees to defend it and the US agrees to help, it will take time for this to build up. In that time Putin could level Ukraine entirely, he could expand this army into other regions (assuming they can manage it), use chemical and biological attacks on Europe then retreat to Russia and use nukes on anyone trying to enter Russia (if you hit troops only with smaller nukes this doesn't necessitate a full launch by the other side) either in Russia or right outside the border.

But none of that benefits Putin, it just hurts his enemy. You have to wonder how China would react, they have nukes too! They won't be happy at the idea of Russia destroying the world. I could see China making the peace, but only if the West actually engages Russia.
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It's not a pretty situation for either side at the minute, and I don't envy anyone who is going to have to make the hard decisions in this conflict.
 
Pexbo said:
Just making the point that if you let Russia land grab state by state, at what point do you decide it’s time to intervene?

Georgia, Crimea, Ukraine…Lithuania, Slovakia, Estonia, Romania?

If they do it incrementally, one per decade before letting relations settle and the world adjust to the new normal and then move onto the next you will always have people saying “it’s not worth it they have nukes”.
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1. If they enter a NATO state, it would happen.. apparently.

2. I just don't see that. This seems to be Putin's war and there is talk that he's lost the plot and facing his own mortality. I think this will escalate quickly.
 
Beans said:
If the world calls his bluff, Putin will be in a very weak position, which is undoubtedly very dangerous. If the EU accepts Ukraine, agrees to defend it and the US agrees to help, it will take time for this to build up. In that time Putin could level Ukraine entirely, he could expand this army into other regions (assuming they can manage it), use chemical and biological attacks on Europe then retreat to Russia and use nukes on anyone trying to enter Russia (if you hit troops only with smaller nukes this doesn't necessitate a full launch by the other side) either in Russia or right outside the border.

But none of that benefits Putin, it just hurts his enemy. You have to wonder how China would react, they have nukes too! They won't be happy at the idea of Russia destroying the world. I could see China making the peace, but only if the West actually engages Russia.
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What can China do if Putin is planning to destroy the world? The entire China/Xi will stop him is such nonsense. China can control Russian's economy now after the sanctions, but if Putin is going all nuke, what can China do. 'Hey Vladimir, we won't buy from you and Russia, neither give you loans after 6000 nukes hit Russia' does not seem a very sensible threat. In an all nuclear war, it is actually extremely likely that China will be subject to that too.

So China stopping Russia makes sense only if we are talking about a rational Russia. If Russia has gone irrational (by that I mean Putin crazy, and no willing mechanisms to remove him), then there is not much China can do.
 
UpWithRivers said:
This idea that Putin is a crazy looney tunes like Hiteler is pure propoganda. Not a chance he tries to take on a Nato country or fire Nukes. He's an arsehole not a mad man.
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Hitler wasn't pathologically crazy at the beginning either, but then got carried away. Chances are, Putin isn't necessarily completely mentally ill at this moment, but could be instable.
 
Smores said:
Disgusting you should be ashamed. That's millions of people living through humanitarian crises you're talking about.
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Perhaps they can ask their leaders why they are endorsing this nonsense.
 
If Russia is defeated and is brought to the negotiating table what are we looking at in terms of reparations/consequences? People have mentioned the fear of what happened to Germany after WW1 and there also are other historical precedents of a nation suffering humiliating peace terms which only inflame further resentment (e.g., Carthage after the first Punic war).

I really don't know what the best case scenario is other than the obvious 'Russia withdraws from the Ukraine' which will still have enormous consequences. I think people are hanging their hopes on Putin being taken out and then an issued apology from the next Russian leader.
 
IWat said:
Cut all aid to anyone remaining who receives it in my opinion.
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That'll never happen because foreign aid isn't given to help people, it's given to buy influence with politicians as bribes and to spread your cultural values in other countries by funding NGO's.
 
IWat said:
Perhaps they can ask their leaders why they are endorsing this nonsense.
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Because the people of Venezuela and Syria have a say what their leaders do. Children definitely deserve to have life saving aid removed because their leaders didn't walk out.

Tough guy you are.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
Next to the US? You joke but that’s not how they financed the loan, they gave a huge amount of land to China (I think it was for 50years). Long term fear for the US is they can start to affect policies in the Caribbean which will not benefit the US but benefit China.
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We are close to the us but I wouldn't call that a strategic location to do anything to them that the Chinese can't already do themselves. Our location is only beneficial as a trading point for transshipment

... The government gave them 1200 acres of land...not exactly a huge amount and it's for building hotels not a military base.

And I can tell you , our extremely zenophobic anti Chinese culture will not be influenced by China anytime soon. There are about as many Jamaicans living in the us as there are in the island itself. The US army is full of Jamaicans so much so my friend that serves in the US army just got married to a fellow Jamaican marine that he met in the army.

The us is always fretting about anyone that tries to influence any country in the world 100 miles away or 10k miles away.

We had an extremely close trading relationship with Venezuela for years as they sold us cheap oil. When it came down to the nitty gritty we sided with uncle Sam as we always do and didn't recognize Maduro as legitimate. There is a better chance of hell freezing over before our government enacts some sort of anti us policy. Because as far as Jamaica is concerned anti us is anti Jamaican due to our embeded ties
 
Smores said:
Because the people of Venezuela and Syria have a say what their leaders do. Children definitely deserve to have life saving aid removed because their leaders didn't walk out.

Tough guy you are.
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We don't give humanitarian aid to North Korea, even though they could do with it. Ever wondered why? Get off your high horse and enter the real world.
 
On a side note, I’m tired of these 70 something pseudo boomers with authoritarian dreams who are completely out of touch with needs of the millennials fecking it up for us. Every fecking where we look some septuagenarian octogenarian living in dark times of 80s trying to rule with religious or nationalist fervour where as the main issues of our times are not those but rather climate, globalisation and income inequality.

how many years do we have to bear this out of touch policy design? Until the money hoarder boomers who back them die?
fecking cnuts


sorry for the rant.
 
Interval said:
On a side note, I’m tired of these 70 something pseudo boomers with authoritarian dreams who are completely out of touch with needs of the millennials fecking it up for us. Every fecking where we look some septuagenarian octogenarian living in dark times of 80s trying to rule with religious or nationalist fervour where as the main issues of our times are not those but rather climate, globalisation and income inequality.

how many years do we have to bear this out of touch policy design? Until the money hoarder boomers who back them die?
fecking cnuts


sorry for the rant.
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yeah, big social changes usually happen by people dying, not people changing their minds.
 
Interval said:
On a side note, I’m tired of these 70 something pseudo boomers with authoritarian dreams who are completely out of touch with needs of the millennials fecking it up for us. Every fecking where we look some septuagenarian octogenarian living in dark times of 80s trying to rule with religious or nationalist fervour where as the main issues of our times are not those but rather climate, globalisation and income inequality.

how many years do we have to bear this out of touch policy design? Until the money hoarder boomers who back them die?
fecking cnuts


sorry for the rant.
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Spot on I'm afraid.
 
Good news from the BBC live page on that 40 miles column queued outside Kyiv

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-60542877

Some clarity on that massive Russian armoured column heading south towards Kyiv.

Close analysis of the latest satellite images by McKenzie Intelligence Services reveals the following:
  • The convoy is not 40 miles long, it’s a series of logistical ‘packets’ strung out along a major highway from the Belarus border, aiming to link up with Russian units on the northern outskirts of Kyiv.
  • The convoy appears to be hampered in several places by broken down vehicles.
  • The column consists of some armour (tanks) and infantry fighting vehicles but mainly logistical vehicles, implying plans for more than just a brief battle.
Separately, the imagery examined by McKenzie Intelligence Services shows a Russian parachute battalion dug in to the area of Hostomel airfield - Ukraine's most important international cargo airport and a key military airbase near Kyiv.

But their artillery is assessed to be outside the range of most of the capital.

The analysts say they have noted very little Russian progress over the past 24 hours.
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Interval said:
On a side note, I’m tired of these 70 something pseudo boomers with authoritarian dreams who are completely out of touch with needs of the millennials fecking it up for us. Every fecking where we look some septuagenarian octogenarian living in dark times of 80s trying to rule with religious or nationalist fervour where as the main issues of our times are not those but rather climate, globalisation and income inequality.

how many years do we have to bear this out of touch policy design? Until the money hoarder boomers who back them die?
fecking cnuts


sorry for the rant.
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At this point there are a lot of millenials in the position of power to be doing this stuff. I suppose Putin is a Boomer but there are just as many who want peace. If anything, I find more childish millennials who don't understand the impact of war.
 
GDaly95 said:


This is an interesting video. A bit off-topic I know, but it seems highly likely that Trasnistria will get pulled into this.
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Did you see his video of him escaping from Kiev? He's on a train with refugees. It really brings the reality of war home.
 
11101 said:
Good news from the BBC live page on that 40 miles column queued outside Kyiv

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-60542877
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i was watching a clip of an American general who reckons it's a resupply convoy. It's likely there to provide supplies to those further ahead on the battlefield.

I guess Russia must have achieved air superiority if they can just park hundreds of vehicles up like that.
 
Irwin99 said:
If Russia is defeated and is brought to the negotiating table what are we looking at in terms of reparations/consequences? People have mentioned the fear of what happened to Germany after WW1 and there also are other historical precedents of a nation suffering humiliating peace terms which only inflame further resentment (e.g., Carthage after the first Punic war).

I really don't know what the best case scenario is other than the obvious 'Russia withdraws from the Ukraine' which will still have enormous consequences. I think people are hanging their hopes on Putin being taken out and then an issued apology from the next Russian leader.
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A Versailles arrangement would not be the end of the world.

What was imposed on Germany in 1918 was less than what Germany imposed on France in 1871. And Weimar was a flourishing state until the 1930s.
 
Rektsanwalt said:
get a grip

some of you lot start getting carried away with your fantasies, absolute mad shit
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Yeah, these posts are borderline idiotic, but this is a football forum… such circumstances are happening at the EU border and are pretty scary, so let it be.

Hopefully, there will be last minute talks to avoid a bloodbath in Kyiv and agree mutually acceptable terms sooner than later.
 
Irwin99 said:
If Russia is defeated and is brought to the negotiating table what are we looking at in terms of reparations/consequences? People have mentioned the fear of what happened to Germany after WW1 and there also are other historical precedents of a nation suffering humiliating peace terms which only inflame further resentment (e.g., Carthage after the first Punic war).

I really don't know what the best case scenario is other than the obvious 'Russia withdraws from the Ukraine' which will still have enormous consequences. I think people are hanging their hopes on Putin being taken out and then an issued apology from the next Russian leader.
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Without a full scale war, you mean? It’s impossible, innit? Best case scenario is all parties agree a truce and settle some sort of splitting… after that, it will however be a cold war scenario until Putin goes, in a way or the other (he is 70yo, not 50…)
 
shamans said:
This is why I hate twitter. Some news that has very little bearing on the grand scheme of things and it's "wow wow wow"
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Agree, using that wow nonsense is pure idiocy.

Interval said:
On a side note, I’m tired of these 70 something pseudo boomers with authoritarian dreams who are completely out of touch with needs of the millennials fecking it up for us. Every fecking where we look some septuagenarian octogenarian living in dark times of 80s trying to rule with religious or nationalist fervour where as the main issues of our times are not those but rather climate, globalisation and income inequality.

how many years do we have to bear this out of touch policy design? Until the money hoarder boomers who back them die?
fecking cnuts


sorry for the rant.
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Share the sentiment, sick of this shit. However, it's also true people of my generation (millennials) don't vote. So it's also their fault.
 
TMDaines said:
It’s a pretty depressing world if we just sit by militarily, leaving those countries with aspirations of joining NATO/EU fall under Russian imperial interference and subsequently the threat of Russian invasion should the people continue to view their future in the West.
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It is the way we are headed if we give Putin yet another win. The regime in Russia seems to be stuck in the 70s. And if they get away with this, Putin or whoever takes the throne after him will come back in 5/10 years for more land.
 
Frosty said:
A Versailles arrangement would not be the end of the world.

What was imposed on Germany in 1918 was less than what Germany imposed on France in 1871. And Weimar was a flourishing state until the 1930s.
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Weimar was hardly flourishing. Hyperinflation until 1924 with several revolts. Only then Weimar recovered economically until 1929. So a whopping 5 years when people lived under relative stability.
 
Tomorrow is second round of talks, speculations here is that Russia want Crimea and for Luzhansk and Donetsk to be considered independent republics, plus affirmation of Ukraine neutrality (whatever that means in their understanding). No word on whether they actually want change of government in Ukraine if the East is basically returned to Russia.
 
Frosty said:
A Versailles arrangement would not be the end of the world.

What was imposed on Germany in 1918 was less than what Germany imposed on France in 1871. And Weimar was a flourishing state until the 1930s.
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?? No offense, but I think you watched too many movies about the roaring 20s in good old Germany. Those were horrible times and by no means a flourishing state, it was a failing and suffering state full of anger, poverty and social problems.
Can't believe people are relativizing Versailles impact on the 20th century.

Edit:
To clarify, it is of utter importance to completely integrate and help Russia once Putin is gone (he won't anytime soon).
 
Interval said:
On a side note, I’m tired of these 70 something pseudo boomers with authoritarian dreams who are completely out of touch with needs of the millennials fecking it up for us. Every fecking where we look some septuagenarian octogenarian living in dark times of 80s trying to rule with religious or nationalist fervour where as the main issues of our times are not those but rather climate, globalisation and income inequality.

how many years do we have to bear this out of touch policy design? Until the money hoarder boomers who back them die?
fecking cnuts


sorry for the rant.
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Yes to your last question I fear
 
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