Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

sun_tzu said:
Possibly but the likelihood might be overplayed because we all hope it's going to happen
Click to expand...

I just can’t think of a country being placed under such pressure and isolation in the modern world. It will only get worse too.

How much will the Russian people take too?
 
Red Dreams said:
The way to get these former Warsaw Pact countries to 'join the west' is not to make NATO any kind of condition.

In fact the goal should be to eventually disband the need for NATO.
Click to expand...
There will always be a need for NATO, as Putin has proved.

There is a reason the former Soviet satelites want to jpoin NATO, can you guess what that is?
 
Somewhat positive news from the peace talks today:

BBC -
'Understanding' reached on evacuation corridors - Ukraine negotiator
We have some more details from the Ukraine-Russia talks.
Ukrainian negotiator Mykhailo Podolyak says the sides have reached an understanding on "jointly securing humanitarian corridors to evacuate peaceful civilians, and also on supplying medicine and food to the places of the most fierce fighting".
He adds there is a possibility, "I stress, with a possibility of a temporary ceasefire for the evacuation period in certain sectors".


Both sides also reached an understanding on the delivery of medicines and food to the places where the fiercest fighting was taking place. Without elaborating, Podolyak said the outcome of today’s talks had fallen short of Ukraine’s hopes.

On the Russian side, Russia’s main negotiator and former culture minister, Vladimir Medinsky, said: The main question that we decided on today was the issue of saving people, civilians, who are in the zone of military clashes. Russia calls on civilians who find themselves in this situation, if military actions continue, to use these humanitarian corridors.
Another Russian negotiator, the nationalist lawmaker Leonid Slutsky, said the agreements will be “implemented in the near future”. Today’s talks mark the first time Ukraine and Russia have agreed to any form of progress on any issue since Russia invaded Ukraine a week ago. A third round of talks is set to take place at the start of next week, the Belarus state news agency Belta cited Podolyak as saying.
 
Jerch said:
Yeah it's great news especially since Russia will definitely think "oh look at that brave civilians from Nato countries armed with Nato weapons who are definitely casual brave civilians and not trained Nato solders". This will definitely deescalate the crisis.

And before someone says to me Sweden is not a Nato member, I know that but those Foreign Legion solders comes from all Europe including Britain for which Johnson said that they will arm every man who volunteers to fight in those legions.
Click to expand...
Let's give them Ukranian citizenship, I'm sure the EU would be happy to help speed that up if there are any bureaucratic issues.

Putin's entire argument is based on BS, a propaganda narrative he's been pushing for years and years. What right to face Ukraine with no allies can he claim, especially when he's bringing in soldiers from other countries?

Russia hasn't been able to stop the flow of supplies into Ukraine, all they have are threats to use. If he could actually do anything, he'd be doing it to stop that. Even Turkey is thumbing their nose at him.

If the world doesn't help Ukraine, you're telling China and Russia they can take over and non-nuclear country in the world that's not in NATO. All off the back of a bluff. We did the cold war, no body wants to end the world by launching. If he's "crazy" enough to launch then it doesn't really matter what we do, but I think he's made a horrible mistake and threats of nukes are all he has left. To let him turn that into a win would be tragic.

How do you tell North Korea they don't need nukes to protect themselves from Russia, now?
 
The more I think of it, the more I believe we're witnessing a sort of revolution in Russia.
The oligarchs are turning. Putin won't stick around for long.
But who emerges from the power vacuum? I reckon it's going to be the people. Somehow.
 
Why on earth are they fighting near nuclear power plants? Does Putin and Russia not realize any damage to that will have devastating effects on Russia as well?
 
hellhunter said:
I'm really not an expert, but I'm under the asumption that turning off a nuclear power plant on short notice isn't quite so easy, is it?
Click to expand...

Power will be shut when you decide but you can't just leave. You still need to keep cooling systems running for months otherwise it will go very poorly.
 
Was watching some pro-Putin arguments on reddit last few days. Their main talking points:


1. Ukraine was continuously shelling the separatist regions for years, not accepting previous agreements, and attacks had gone up recently.
Not sure how true it is - surely Russia could have posted more footage if it was widespread?
Regardless, doesn't justify Russia bombing anything, let alone residential buildings, hundreds of miles away.

2. Ukraine militia and police/armed people are killing people indiscriminately.
This seemed to be the most credible of their 3 points, saw a few videos of cars being stopped, harrassed, some people shot. Given the official policy about men 18-60, it makes sense too.
It's funny for a pro-Soviet pro-Putin idiot (the guy I was arguing with) to say this though, since it's exactly what the NKVD did during WW2 in Moscow to "stop panic" and "deter looting".

3. Ukraine is refusing to open humanitarian corridors offered by Russia.
There was a link to a Ukraine-language website about this, which itself linked to a Ukrainian ministry statement about fighting and calling "green corridors" a Russian plot, so it seemed credible.
But then, today, apparently both sides have negotiated exactly this. So not exactly a talking point that will last long.
 
Before I say this, and inevitably get flamed - I want to first make it clear that I think Putin is a cnut, his pretext for war is bullshit and I hope he fails in every possible way. feck him and feck the invasion. I'm on Ukraine's side.

But I don't like narratives and how some people are unable to be objective. I saw a post on reddit about how somebody feels sorry for some of the Russian kids on the front lines and won't celebrate their deaths, some of them are just young lads in their teens who have been told by everybody around them that they're doing the right thing. The replies were predictable: "You're a traitor" "feck the invaders I hope they all die" "You're a nazi sympathiser". Sorry but feeling sorry for these kids doesn't mean I don't feel sorry for the people in Ukraine being killed and displaced.

Also, while practically everything that comes out of Russian news agencies is highly slanted propaganda, not everything that comes out of 'our side' is going to be completely truthful either. People post old images and videos of war on social media, showing awful destruction, and implying it's from 2022. If you dare point out that it's fake/old, you'll be flamed for being a Putin bot. This isn't right either. Pointing out fakes does not take away from the fact that Ukrainians really are suffering, but we don't need to make shit up - if anything being deceitful about these matters is insulting to the Ukrainians who are actually suffering.
 
Droid_Repairs said:
Before I say this, and inevitably get flamed - I want to first make it clear that I think Putin is a cnut, his pretext for war is bullshit and I hope he fails in every possible way. feck him and feck the invasion. I'm on Ukraine's side.

But I don't like narratives and how some people are unable to be objective. I saw a post on reddit about how somebody feels sorry for some of the Russian kids on the front lines and won't celebrate their deaths, some of them are just young lads in their teens who have been told by everybody around them that they're doing the right thing. The replies were predictable: "You're a traitor" "feck the invaders I hope they all die" "You're a nazi sympathiser". Sorry but feeling sorry for these kids doesn't mean I don't feel sorry for the people in Ukraine being killed and displaced.

Also, while practically everything that comes out of Russian news agencies is highly slanted propaganda, not everything that comes out of 'our side' is going to be completely truthful either. People post old images and videos of war on social media, showing awful destruction, and implying it's from 2022. If you dare point out that it's fake/old, you'll be flamed for being a Putin bot. This isn't right either. Pointing out fakes does not take away from the fact that Ukrainians really are suffering, but we don't need to make shit up - if anything being deceitful about these matters is insulting to the Ukrainians who are actually suffering.
Click to expand...
I cant imagine you will be flamed for pitying the children Putin sends to fight his war of conquest. War has always been about cnuts in ivory towers moving poor kids around to go and kill eachother. Such a fecking ridiculous concept. War.
 
Droid_Repairs said:
Before I say this, and inevitably get flamed - I want to first make it clear that I think Putin is a cnut, his pretext for war is bullshit and I hope he fails in every possible way. feck him and feck the invasion. I'm on Ukraine's side.

But I don't like narratives and how some people are unable to be objective. I saw a post on reddit about how somebody feels sorry for some of the Russian kids on the front lines and won't celebrate their deaths, some of them are just young lads in their teens who have been told by everybody around them that they're doing the right thing. The replies were predictable: "You're a traitor" "feck the invaders I hope they all die" "You're a nazi sympathiser". Sorry but feeling sorry for these kids doesn't mean I don't feel sorry for the people in Ukraine being killed and displaced.

Also, while practically everything that comes out of Russian news agencies is highly slanted propaganda, not everything that comes out of 'our side' is going to be completely truthful either. People post old images and videos of war on social media, showing awful destruction, and implying it's from 2022. If you dare point out that it's fake/old, you'll be flamed for being a Putin bot. This isn't right either. Pointing out fakes does not take away from the fact that Ukrainians really are suffering, but we don't need to make shit up - if anything being deceitful about these matters is insulting to the Ukrainians who are actually suffering.
Click to expand...
There's people in here who think the same way. Yesterday one lovely individual was talking about rounding up Russians in foreign countries and putting them in camps.

Fascism has been rising again in Europe and can't help but feel this war is only going to make things worse.
 
Droid_Repairs said:
Before I say this, and inevitably get flamed - I want to first make it clear that I think Putin is a cnut, his pretext for war is bullshit and I hope he fails in every possible way. feck him and feck the invasion. I'm on Ukraine's side.

But I don't like narratives and how some people are unable to be objective. I saw a post on reddit about how somebody feels sorry for some of the Russian kids on the front lines and won't celebrate their deaths, some of them are just young lads in their teens who have been told by everybody around them that they're doing the right thing. The replies were predictable: "You're a traitor" "feck the invaders I hope they all die" "You're a nazi sympathiser". Sorry but feeling sorry for these kids doesn't mean I don't feel sorry for the people in Ukraine being killed and displaced.

Also, while practically everything that comes out of Russian news agencies is highly slanted propaganda, not everything that comes out of 'our side' is going to be completely truthful either. People post old images and videos of war on social media, showing awful destruction, and implying it's from 2022. If you dare point out that it's fake/old, you'll be flamed for being a Putin bot. This isn't right either. Pointing out fakes does not take away from the fact that Ukrainians really are suffering, but we don't need to make shit up - if anything being deceitful about these matters is insulting to the Ukrainians who are actually suffering.
Click to expand...
Very good post, mate. I think a lot of people, me included, are struggling with the terror and injustice of it all and overreact occasionally
 
Beans said:
Let's give them Ukranian citizenship, I'm sure the EU would be happy to help speed that up if there are any bureaucratic issues.

Putin's entire argument is based on BS, a propaganda narrative he's been pushing for years and years. What right to face Ukraine with no allies can he claim, especially when he's bringing in soldiers from other countries?

Russia hasn't been able to stop the flow of supplies into Ukraine, all they have are threats to use. If he could actually do anything, he'd be doing it to stop that. Even Turkey is thumbing their nose at him.

If the world doesn't help Ukraine, you're telling China and Russia they can take over and non-nuclear country in the world that's not in NATO. All off the back of a bluff. We did the cold war, no body wants to end the world by launching. If he's "crazy" enough to launch then it doesn't really matter what we do, but I think he's made a horrible mistake and threats of nukes are all he has left. To let him turn that into a win would be tragic.

How do you tell North Korea they don't need nukes to protect themselves from Russia, now?
Click to expand...
The same way you tell Iran that they don't need nukes to protect themselves from US
 
Droid_Repairs said:
Before I say this, and inevitably get flamed - I want to first make it clear that I think Putin is a cnut, his pretext for war is bullshit and I hope he fails in every possible way. feck him and feck the invasion. I'm on Ukraine's side.

But I don't like narratives and how some people are unable to be objective. I saw a post on reddit about how somebody feels sorry for some of the Russian kids on the front lines and won't celebrate their deaths, some of them are just young lads in their teens who have been told by everybody around them that they're doing the right thing. The replies were predictable: "You're a traitor" "feck the invaders I hope they all die" "You're a nazi sympathiser". Sorry but feeling sorry for these kids doesn't mean I don't feel sorry for the people in Ukraine being killed and displaced.

Also, while practically everything that comes out of Russian news agencies is highly slanted propaganda, not everything that comes out of 'our side' is going to be completely truthful either. People post old images and videos of war on social media, showing awful destruction, and implying it's from 2022. If you dare point out that it's fake/old, you'll be flamed for being a Putin bot. This isn't right either. Pointing out fakes does not take away from the fact that Ukrainians really are suffering, but we don't need to make shit up - if anything being deceitful about these matters is insulting to the Ukrainians who are actually suffering.
Click to expand...

I feel sorry for the Russian kids who are little more than involuntary pawns in Putin's murderous agenda. Many have been given food, tea, and smartphones by Ukrainians in towns they attempted to invade, so I doubt anyone will call these Ukrainians nazi sympathizers because they feel fed Russian teenagers.
 
BlueHaze said:
Why on earth are they fighting near nuclear power plants? Does Putin and Russia not realize any damage to that will have devastating effects on Russia as well?
Click to expand...
I was working in a nuclear power station in North Wales in 1986 when Chernobyl went into meltdown and it caused monitoring equipment to alarm in stations all over the UK. There was restrictions on farmland in the Welsh mountains for 26 years .
 
GDaly95 said:
This cannot be true.

It just can't be.
Click to expand...


It's been happening for a while anyway, as a form of punishment. Whether they take you, or they take a family member to punish you. And it's not necessarily to a war, it could be off to Siberia for you. Military service is mandatory, though not always enforced.

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/05/01/russias-pandemic-excess-death-toll-passes-460k-a73804

"In December 2019, police officers came to Ruslan Shaveddinov's Moscow apartment, sawed through the door and placed him in handcuffs before whisking him away for forced military service in the Arctic."
 
I just saw the remains of a bombing in Chernigov. The result is devastating. Apparently it is essential for access to Kiev and they are going to crush it
Pintu said:
Click to expand...

even if they are using him or teasing him in the negotiations, at least he is trying and showing iniciative.I wonder what Merkel would do
 
Mogget said:
There's people in here who think the same way. Yesterday one lovely individual was talking about rounding up Russians in foreign countries and putting them in camps.
Click to expand...
If you mean me, then that's not what I said at all.

Don't twist words to fit your agenda.
 
Red Dreams said:
The US and the West should never have enticed Ukraine about joining NATO.
It was directly threatening to Russia.

Non military benefits should not have been conditional on Ukraine joining NATO.
No one can justify Putin invading Ukraine.
But lets not pretend the West did not have a huge role in what is happening now.
Click to expand...

Ukraine did not join NATO though, and the West decided not to let it in. So what's your victim blaming excuse going to be now?
 
Droid_Repairs said:
Before I say this, and inevitably get flamed - I want to first make it clear that I think Putin is a cnut, his pretext for war is bullshit and I hope he fails in every possible way. feck him and feck the invasion. I'm on Ukraine's side.

But I don't like narratives and how some people are unable to be objective. I saw a post on reddit about how somebody feels sorry for some of the Russian kids on the front lines and won't celebrate their deaths, some of them are just young lads in their teens who have been told by everybody around them that they're doing the right thing. The replies were predictable: "You're a traitor" "feck the invaders I hope they all die" "You're a nazi sympathiser". Sorry but feeling sorry for these kids doesn't mean I don't feel sorry for the people in Ukraine being killed and displaced.

Also, while practically everything that comes out of Russian news agencies is highly slanted propaganda, not everything that comes out of 'our side' is going to be completely truthful either. People post old images and videos of war on social media, showing awful destruction, and implying it's from 2022. If you dare point out that it's fake/old, you'll be flamed for being a Putin bot. This isn't right either. Pointing out fakes does not take away from the fact that Ukrainians really are suffering, but we don't need to make shit up - if anything being deceitful about these matters is insulting to the Ukrainians who are actually suffering.
Click to expand...

I don't think this is controversial. Putin is sending in boys to fight and die for him. Kids who should be at school or university enjoying their lives.

And yes, Ukraine is using propaganda. Because I support them I don't mind it so much. Especially if it demoralises Russian troops into giving up and shortening the conflict. It is important to treat it cautiously like you said though.

carvajal said:
I just saw the remains of a bombing in Chernigov. The result is devastating. Apparently it is essential for access to Kiev and they are going to crush it

even if they are using him or teasing him in the negotiations, at least he is trying and showing iniciative.I wonder what Merkel would do
Click to expand...

Macron's standing has gone up in the polls since the war started. And the first round of the French Presidential elections is in five or so weeks. There could be a very cynical reason behind these moves.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.