Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

What if they are supplied by that person's.

I suppose that's what I'm having a hard time with, distinguishing the line between being actively aggressive and being defensive as NATO want to be.
I'd say supplying weapons in the open is aggressive, but hopefully Putin doesn't!

But I have had some good answers to my questions from various on here, so that's much appreciated.
No. In WWII, Britain was supplied by the US before the US ever got into the conflict. There were also wars fought by countries supplied by bigger powers throughout the entirety of the Cold War.
 
No. In WWII, Britain was supplied by the US before the US ever got into the conflict. There were also wars fought by countries supplied by bigger powers throughout the entirety of the Cold War.

It was pretty much the defining feature of the Cold War. Proxy warfare was the order of the day. And usually the involvement was a lot more direct than the West in Ukraine today.
 
I very much doubt that any rollback would happen under Putin. Why would he give any amount of freedom back when he had already took it?

Sorry I just meant that Russia stepping into a totalitarian political situation, is that something that's a western narrative whilst the reality on the ground might be different?
 
Well it took the US/UK 3 weeks to take Baghdad. It's the media that controls the narrative so they are playing it hard that Russia is struggling, the same media at that time weren't saying that the US/UK coalition were struggling (although I'm sure Iraqi state media was!).

You'd figure given how we're being told Russia is so shit at this war thing that the EU would be less fearful about attacking them. They might throw a nuclear bomb on themselves.

This is a massive fecking army, they'll take over eventually. The EU won't do anything, that's the sad reality, I just hope the Ukrainians don't let them sleep easy for the time they are there.

Disagree with that.
Baghdad is over 600km away from Kuwait, Kyiv is 90km away from Belarus. So of course it would take longer to reach Baghdad.

US and their allies lost 172 soldiers (and around 20 Kurtish allies but they were not under their command) to overthrow Sadam. Russia has already lost a few thousand soldiers in this.

I think that the US lost 4 tanks and 8 aircraft during the invasion. Russia has lost hundreds of tanks (for more than 80 there is photo evidence) and likely a few dozen aircrafts.

Pretty much this. Both used different tactics too but it’s blatantly obvious Russia is struggling.

This invasion is about spheres of influence.
Putin/Russia is not going to just withdraw without NATO recognizing Russia's voice in the region going forward.
Sanctions alone wont cut it.

Disagree.

The fact Putin is complaining and threatening so much indicates a man under pressure. He knows his country is crumbling.
 
Sorry I just meant that Russia stepping into a totalitarian political situation, is that something that's a western narrative whilst the reality on the ground might be different?
It couldn’t be more true. And Russia was a pretty totalitarian state already, but this is different.
 
Probably over the top in my original comment.
What I'm curious to know is are the Russian casualties as high as what's said on social media or is it a bit of posturing. There is definitely a move by the west to make Russia look incompetent via information/misinformation. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle as always. Don't get me wrong I hope Ukraine hold them off for as long as it takes (with as little casualties on both sides as possible). I'm just skeptical that Russia are doing as poorly as they say.


Well, 2-3 days ago the Russian MOD themselves confirmed 500 casualties while at the same time their Ukrainian counterpart claimed 9000 RU soldiers killed. Whilst we would like to believe the Ukrainian claims, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. That would still mean 25-30x as many soldiers killed than US soldiers during the entire Iraqi war. And that is just after a week after the invasion started. And we have had 2-3 more days of battles since those reports came out. Also you have to take into account the staggering amount of tanks, armored vehicles, helicopters and airplanes lost in just a week. Add to that apparent logistic issues after just 3-4 days right across their own border (I mean, it is now 5-6 days ago we heard about the massive RU convoy on its way to Kyiv, and it still hasn't arrived) and it paints a picture of an invasion force that is struggling massively.

We can't be naïve because it's still early days, but so far Putin has managed to get the Russian army to completely lose their fear factor.
 
Sorry I just meant that Russia stepping into a totalitarian political situation, is that something that's a western narrative whilst the reality on the ground might be different?

They blocked twitter, facebook and youtube. They also approved a law to hand out up to 15 years in prison for spreading "fake" news about the army. BBC journalists have left the country. What do you think?
 

Shuttle diplomacy, I guess.

I would be surprised if one of Russia's requests won't be US removing nuclear weapons from Europe. Which might be ok, considering that US can hit Russia from the US, B2s and subs.

But I also think that most of US nukes in Europe are tactical, which would put the US at disadvantage if Russia uses a tactical nuke in Europe (tit for tat and all that).
 
Shuttle diplomacy, I guess.

I would be surprised if one of Russia's requests won't be US removing nuclear weapons from Europe. Which might be ok, considering that US can hit Russia from the US, B2s and subs.

But I also think that most of US nukes in Europe are tactical, which would put the US at disadvantage if Russia uses a tactical nuke in Europe (tit for tat and all that).
Dont think US is in the mood to pander to any Russian demands. You also usualy make these demands from a position of strength, not whatever Putin is right now in.
 
Shuttle diplomacy, I guess.

I would be surprised if one of Russia's requests won't be US removing nuclear weapons from Europe. Which might be ok, considering that US can hit Russia from the US, B2s and subs.

But I also think that most of US nukes in Europe are tactical, which would put the US at disadvantage if Russia uses a tactical nuke in Europe (tit for tat and all that).

I think UK and France have their own nukes not US nukes that you got in Germany and Italy? Can't see them giving up on those after being threatened with nuclear war for over a week, Russia won't give up on any of theirs.
 
Mayor of Mariupol in CNN now basically confirming the Russians used the ceasefire to lure citizens into the open, then attacked them.

Fecking hell. My biggest fear is that we need images of an actual genocide to force an intervention of any sort from NATO. We all fecked up by waiting for too long while massacres happened in Bosnia and in Kosovo back in the days.
 


It seems shift has gone completely to the south, with Mariupol being razed to the ground.
Holding out hope, someone will come in last moment, Knights of the Vale style, and annihilate occupants with swords and lances.
 
I wonder what happens if the Americans start asking Israel "mate what the absolute feck?!"
Pretty obvious what the Ukrainians were trying to invoke when highlighting Babyn Yar getting some collateral damage too.
 

It's probably important to note that those are not Russian workers but rather Turkish workers that work in Russia. Hence their disappointment with having their salaries paid according to an old exchange course. I do hope that Russian workers would follow them though.
 
Fecking hell. My biggest fear is that we need images of an actual genocide to force an intervention of any sort from NATO. We all fecked up by waiting for too long while massacres happened in Bosnia and in Kosovo back in the days.
We won’t intervene militarily even if it turns into a genocide in Ukraine. That’s the protection a massive nuclear arsenal gives you unfortunately.
 
It couldn’t be more true. And Russia was a pretty totalitarian state already, but this is different.

Perhaps you should get out of there while you can? Long time ago, I read a lot of books about soviet russia, Solzhenitsyn, Bulgakov, Serge, etc. It is not inconceivable that another purge of "Enemies of the People" will happen again, especially since Putin was and will always be KGB. (Yes, back then nobody expected that things will get that bad, either. )
 
I think UK and France have their own nukes not US nukes that you got in Germany and Italy? Can't see them giving up on those after being threatened with nuclear war for over a week, Russia won't give up on any of theirs.
UK and France are nuclear powers on their own, but the US has nukes in Turkey, Italy and Germany. Lavrov already mentioned that it is time for the US to remove their nukes from Europe.

To be fair, I do not understand what is their point nowadays considering that the US can hit Russia from sea, air and the US. On Germany, they are all in the same place and it should take Russia to hit them in less than 10 minutes, which is probably less than it would take the US to decide to retaliate or not.
 

I have a Russian friend here in Denmark who's been here quite long (went to highschool here etc.). Anyway, she has been critical of the war on especially Instagram. Now she's stopped being that as she knows a Russian guy in Germany who got a letter that he was a traitor after being critical of Russia on Facebook. Following that his parents in Russia had a visit from police or whoever ransacking the place.