Found an actual pic of the Moskva:
Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion
- Thread starter Wednesday at Stoke
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Found an actual pic of the Moskva:
Now that's a throwback to the old Battleship board game I used to play in my youth.
And yes, a cruiser = 3 hits.
Holy shit, I was trying to place why I should know what this picture was doing and I felt stupid for not figuring it out. Now I know that feeling was justified.
Now that's a throwback to the old Battleship board game I used to play in my youth.
And yes, a cruiser = 3 hits.
I thought those were pontoons attached to make it float underwater. Smort
Turns out they sent samurai swords.
They can always find and train the real-life version of Mikasa Ackerman to do what she did on Yeagerists, without carrying guns.
Sorry. Got confused. But yeah. I was referering to Steinmeier.
I dont think is an insult if it is obvious that he has ties with russia and is obvious that he is lobbing to keep paying money to russia for its gas because he doesnt want germany to have economic difficulties while his people is dying. Poland, lithuania, estonia and latvia cut their ties with russia. It would be an insult towards those countries that made the effort and to ukranian people to allow this a PR stunt for steinmeier
The problem is, that this isn't about Steinmeier as a private person. This is about the head of the German state who isn't welcome in Ukraine, this is effectively treating Germany like an enemy.
To put it bluntly, there are a lot of wars and other horrible stuff ongoing in the world (what the Chinese are doing to the Uigurs could also be called a kind of genocide for example), and no one here cares or expects Germany to care about it. We also have no formal alliance or whatever in place to help Ukraine, we just help out of goodwill, nothing forces us to do it. It isn't smart to risk this goodwill, yet Ukraine is constantly doing this to Germany.
And the way they try to weasel out of this doesn't make it better (by claiming that there never was an official request for a visit from the office of the German president - well no, of not a surprise, this group trip in question was organised by Poland, not by Germany).
I'm all for supporting the Ukrainian people, but their government and diplomats lost a lot of my respect in recent days.
So because Ukraine have called you out you feel hurt? Must be tough for you sitting in your peace and having to listen to these insults from a desperate country under attack.
Jesus christ.
Let me get my violin out, I feel so sorry for the German hurt feelings.
Perhaps if they hadn't been so far up Putin's arse, Ukraine might feel differently.
I don't have a problem with Ukraine calling out especially SPD politicians like Scholz or Steinmeier for their role in the close German-Russian relationships. None at all, I like to do it myself sometimes here.
This is not about calling us out. My criticism is solely about the stunning lack of respect for diplomacy, that severely troubles our relationships now. You have a problem with former actions of the German president, that he already publicly called a mistake? Just let him come and ask him to repeat that publicly in Butcha.
Could have gotten a response like Willy Brandt's famous kneefall in Warsaw and created hugely impressive and important pictures to go around the world.
Do they take this opportunity? No, they just act like this way and allow a huge discussion to start about the German-Ukrainian relationship. It's just so stupid. Instead of trying to increase our relationship and make Germany closer allies, they just cause questions if we should really stand with their government.
Let's say it this way: Apparently Ukraine has such a good live, that they don't need us as friends and can afford to hold a grudge. That's amazing that they don't need us, and I am very happy to hear that (yes, that was sarcasm).
@stefan92 's sentiment isn't new. I've heard it elsewhere too. I slightly agree in the sense that the Ukrainians have immense goodwill at the moment and shouldn't unnecessarily make relations worse for themselves.
Admitting mistake and still continuing on the same path (blocking of arm supplies, dragging the feet on the most important sanctions, not postponing the nuclear phase out, taking a piss with helmets delivery, etc.) is just empty words at this stage. When Estonia have contributed 6x that of Germany in weapon deliveries while you’re going through a genocide is a peak insult in itself and shows that these claims are just worthless. Make no mistake, this war never happens in the first place if Germany doesn’t depend on the Russian energy and doesn’t continue to appease Putin after first invasion in 2014, it’s not nice to hear but your actions have directly enabled this war and encouraged Putin to go further. When you look at this bigger picture you might understand why the words are chosen the way they’re by Ukrainian diplomats. Basically, until words turn into actions I don’t see how they can trust you really given so many Russian connections too.
Last edited:
I'm not sure it's that unclever from a diplomatic point of view. It's a message to not feck around and do something substantial. After all, German politicians have made a bunch of major mistakes (Lindner, Scholz, Baerbock, Steinmeier, ...) and for what it's worth, Germany is still not doing all they could. It might be without alternative but one way or another we are financing the Russians day by day.
Ukraine has so much support in Germany that Selensky didn't really risk anything. I mean, most of the population probably agrees with him on this point and possibly thinks Steinmeier deserved this message. It's a friendly reminder that their power comes from the people (even though most people probably don't know what it would cost them to cut off Russian gas completely).
It's not that simple. For example Slovakia delivered S-300 air defenses to Ukraine - great. Why did they feel safe to do that? Because Germany moved Patriot systems there. Germany is doing a huge amount of economical aid and is the amongst the biggest supporters there, in some regards even the biggest.
Weapon deliveries to Ukraine have been a difficult topic, I'll admit, and that isn't great. But this incident gives those people an excuse that are supporting NOT delivering weapons, therefore it wasn't wise. And therefore I disagree with @Zehner - while this sits well with those critical, it won't convince those that have to be convinced to increase our support.
Sorry but we Germans need to stop being offended over every little thing and start taking our heads out of our asses. Let's start behaving like Europe's most powerful country. That means making decisions and not hiding like we usually do. And how do they lost your respect , because of diplomatic errors ? What kind of respect is that ffs
This is literally 1-to-1 how I see it:
For example I don't think that Zelensky's government did enough against corruption and oligarchy in Ukraine, so I was quite critical of him before this war started. He proves to be a great leader for his people during this war, but apart from that I'm just not convinced.
That tweet exactly proves my point. A lot of outrage over an unnecessary diplomatic incident, which does just not help the Ukrainian cause.
All the german folk on here - we see you as the leaders in Europe, most of us in the EU aspire and look up to you and simply want you to act finally on behalf of democratic Europe by standing up to the war criminals and defending our core values. Getting offended at the slightest of opportunity and inconvenience after all the past mistakes is anything but leadership.
USA. It was USA. Germany did nothing. Stop the nonsense please.
True. But the thing is, Europeans actually wanting German leadership is a quite new development and our politicians haven't adjusted very well to this.
If the cause wouldn't be so sad it would be quite funny how many peoples demand German leadership now, that either lived in fear of Germany dominating them or just calling our politicians Hitler at the first possible cause. In a way there have been decades of intoctrination against German leadership in Germany following WW2. The UK even tried to prevent the German reunification essentially out of fear of Germany becoming too strong.
And that shows how we Germans are increasingly seen internationally. Weak leaders and offended moralists who like to dictate but are as agile as a container ship in domestic and foreign policy. That may be harsh, but it is by no means a great exaggeration. What do you think about the "Zeitenwende"?
Please keep your facts straight. The systems there are manned by German and Dutch soldiers and were moved there from the Bundeswehr site in Husum:
https://www.rnd.de/politik/bundeswe...-die-slowakei-27EOZLTKZDO4B3ZLRJQEP5DCKE.html
Yep, and that view is justified, I'll admit that. I just try to give some background here for other folks who really don't seem to grasp that a lot of Germans are so terrified of getting involved in something which could lead to WW3 because of our responsibility for WW2 (and to a lesser degree for WW1).
And I also say that this is a stupid view to hold today, and it is a tragedy that we allowed the SPD to lead the government. It was on track to become totally irrelevant, until everybody else decided to act like even bigger idiots. And now we've got a mess where we have a chancellor that doesn't lead and a defence minister that is totally incompetent (but in the SPD), while someone who would be really qualified to do a great job there is limited to being leader of the parliamentary committee of defence.
So I agree with Scholz that we need a "Zeitenwende", but for me it can't have SPD as part of it but the total annihilation of the SPD.
The BBC reports:
"Western officials say Ukrainian claims to have hit the Russian cruiser, the Moskva, with their own domestically developed Neptune missile are “credible.”
One official said the loss of the Moskva, if confirmed, was a “massive blow” to Russian military credibility, regardless of how it happened.
He said he was not aware of another case, involving a capital ship, in which a fire had led to the explosion of the ammunition magazine - something Russia has claimed. This, the official said, would represent “remarkably inept” control by crew - and it was hard to believe that this was how the incident occurred.
The official added that the loss of the Moskva would have “a significant impact" on Russian maritime operations.
As flagship of Russia’s Black Sea fleet, the Moskva was providing vital command and control functions for the rest of the fleet. This would now be harder – but not impossible – for Russia to achieve.
But if this is proven to have been a successful Ukrainian strike, he said it suggested the fleet’s air defences were vulnerable.
On recent Russian attacks on Ukrainian fuel and ammunition depots, the official said these were evidence of an effort to limit the resupply and manoeuverability of Ukrainian forces.
But he did not believe the strikes had reached a level where they would have an immediate effect.
On Russian casualties, he said the Western count was "somewhat lower" than Ukraine’s figure (currently 19,700 Russian dead), but that “incredible numbers" had been killed.
The official said Russia’s air force was still not able to operate beyond the forward line of Russian troops, because it was "terrified" of flying over Ukrainian-held positions. This was due to a combination of Ukrainian air defence systems and systems provided by the West.
Officials said torrential rain in eastern Ukraine was also having an effect, making it harder for Russian forces to operate off road, and slowing down their ability to mass troops."
"Western officials say Ukrainian claims to have hit the Russian cruiser, the Moskva, with their own domestically developed Neptune missile are “credible.”
One official said the loss of the Moskva, if confirmed, was a “massive blow” to Russian military credibility, regardless of how it happened.
He said he was not aware of another case, involving a capital ship, in which a fire had led to the explosion of the ammunition magazine - something Russia has claimed. This, the official said, would represent “remarkably inept” control by crew - and it was hard to believe that this was how the incident occurred.
The official added that the loss of the Moskva would have “a significant impact" on Russian maritime operations.
As flagship of Russia’s Black Sea fleet, the Moskva was providing vital command and control functions for the rest of the fleet. This would now be harder – but not impossible – for Russia to achieve.
But if this is proven to have been a successful Ukrainian strike, he said it suggested the fleet’s air defences were vulnerable.
On recent Russian attacks on Ukrainian fuel and ammunition depots, the official said these were evidence of an effort to limit the resupply and manoeuverability of Ukrainian forces.
But he did not believe the strikes had reached a level where they would have an immediate effect.
On Russian casualties, he said the Western count was "somewhat lower" than Ukraine’s figure (currently 19,700 Russian dead), but that “incredible numbers" had been killed.
The official said Russia’s air force was still not able to operate beyond the forward line of Russian troops, because it was "terrified" of flying over Ukrainian-held positions. This was due to a combination of Ukrainian air defence systems and systems provided by the West.
Officials said torrential rain in eastern Ukraine was also having an effect, making it harder for Russian forces to operate off road, and slowing down their ability to mass troops."
Wall Street Journal
U.S. to Send Patriot Missile Systems to Poland
https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/ru...issile-systems-to-poland-Jb2ydLPC30HkBQ9jSvOm
It is true that Germany has given 1 billion euros to Ukraine during this war. It is also true that Germany has given 40 billion euros to Russia during this war. That's the German contribution so far, as far as I know, the ratio is 40:1 towards Russia.
We also know that Gerhard Schröder was practically a Russian agent. We don't know how many others in the German government are Russian agents and spies. Could be a lot, given that in December, when the USA was predicting war, the German agencies were saying the opposite. This is not just due to incompetence, it points to corruption. This might be a reason why Germany is not helping Ukraine that much, and in practice it is still helping Russia more.
Germany must do more in this war to help Ukraine, that's what all the Western countries agree with. They simply have to do more, not in words, in practice.
That's not Slovakia
Please learn which countries exist in Europe before commenting. I was talking about Slovakia, not Poland. You are of course right that the US send Patriots to Poland, but that wasn't the point of my post.
Do you want Slovakia, too? You can simply use google.
U.S. sending Patriot missile system to Slovakia
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/04/08/u-s-patriot-missile-system-slovakia-00024116
The United States make the decisions about Patriot Missiles in Europe. It is that simple.
Putin’s Army Is Built On Corruption, Fear, Brutality, And Ignorance. That’s Why It Sucks:
https://10ztalk.com/2022/04/14/puti...r-brutality-and-ignorance-thats-why-it-sucks/
https://10ztalk.com/2022/04/14/puti...r-brutality-and-ignorance-thats-why-it-sucks/
Read your own source please: "The system also “complements the NATO multinational battlegroup in eastern Slovakia, which includes air defense elements from Germany and the Netherlands,” he added."
Mental gymnastics by Russia.
It was sunk yesterday but cool story bro.