Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

I know it's just a meltdown from a nobody on a football forum, but christ that Paxi rant has depressed me. It could have been from one of my own brothers, he'd also describe himself as against the war and Putin, but can't disentangle himself from a sense of nationalism and feeling that countrymen couldn't be capable of doing most of these things. Before you know it, things are being justified or dismissed in a careless contrarian way that never should be, especially war crimes. There are a lot of people that will tie themselves in knots before it sets in that Putin is leading the country down a very dark path.
 
Demyanenko_square_jaw said:
I know it's just a meltdown from a nobody on a football forum, but christ that Paxi rant has depressed me. It could have been from one of my own brothers, he'd also describe himself as against the war and Putin, but can't disentangle himself from a sense of nationalism and feeling that countrymen couldn't be capable of doing most of these things. Before you know it, things are being justified or dismissed in a careless contrarian way that never should be, especially war crimes. There are a lot of people that will tie themselves in knots before it sets in that Putin is leading the country down a very dark path.
Click to expand...

The overall lack of condemnation of the war by a lot of Russians is what I find disheartening. I know Russia isn't a democracy, doesn't have free press or free speech, but I would still have expected more protests by now. I know there are lots of wonderful Russians against the war like @harms and some real life friends but it seems the majority is with their dear leader in trying annex a fairly large neighboring country. Its surprising Paxi can hold the views he does with accessorisk to the free press.
 
Last edited:
Beans said:
How can you disagree that there are immoral actions that are strategically advantageous? Are you saying that anything that gives a country an advantage against another is moral? Would you say the same thing for the individual, anything that gives me an advantage in life is moral?

Like nuking North Korea, for example. That's not okay, even if it makes the world a safer place. You can take a position that making the world safer justifies evil action, but it's still evil. And you have the problem that this logic might be applied to anyone, which would make the world decidedly less safe.

So instead we give people and countries rights, and they're to be defended.
Click to expand...

But Ukraine isn't a threat to Russia. Even If it joined the EU and later Nato. Poland isn't a threat to Russia either despite their proximity to Russia. Also regarding the legality of the war

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_the_2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine
 
Last edited:
Gehrman said:
I know Russia isn't a democracy, doesn't have free press or free speech, but I would still have expected more protests by now.
Click to expand...
The protests are done now simply because they don't lead up to anything — you won't be able to get even a 100 people together without alerting the authorities (and getting a prison sentence) & the minute you come to the streets, you're done. There are new (well, not really new) different forms of horizontal protests that aren't really visible from the outside due to their decentralised nature and focus (from the ground up, not the other way around). It's really hard to estimate the amount of those involved, which is intentional as if it's hard for you to see the clear picture, it's also hard for the police/FSB/FSO etc.

But yeah, it's still most certainly a minority.
 
harms said:
The protests are done now simply because they don't lead up to anything — you won't be able to get even a 100 people together without alerting the authorities (and getting a prison sentence) & the minute you come to the streets, you're done. There are new (well, not really new) different forms of horizontal protests that aren't really visible from the outside due to their decentralised nature and focus (from the ground up, not the other way around). It's really hard to estimate the amount of those involved, which is intentional as if it's hard for you to see the clear picture, it's also hard for the police/FSB/FSO etc.

But yeah, it's still most certainly a minority.
Click to expand...

Yeah i understand that protests might be futile anyway.
 
harms said:
The protests are done now simply because they don't lead up to anything — you won't be able to get even a 100 people together without alerting the authorities (and getting a prison sentence) & the minute you come to the streets, you're done. There are new (well, not really new) different forms of horizontal protests that aren't really visible from the outside due to their decentralised nature and focus (from the ground up, not the other way around). It's really hard to estimate the amount of those involved, which is intentional as if it's hard for you to see the clear picture, it's also hard for the police/FSB/FSO etc.

But yeah, it's still most certainly a minority.
Click to expand...

Fair enough if you can't but I was wondering if you could give an example of what you mean by horizontal protests? Stuff like people downloading VPNs to access outside news, or something more direct like hacking / displaying symbols on public buildings perhaps?
 
sport2793 said:
I would be very careful sharing info from this twitter source, it's likely a fake who just aggregates widely available info
Click to expand...
You are probably right but it does not seem like he makes things up as every thing he says seems to be in line with what others are reporting . I have only followed him for a couple of weeks but it always seemed like he had way to much time to be on twitter for a guy fighting in the war. Other foreign fighters who tweet only do so very sporadically when away from the front lines so this guy updating twitter multiple time a day always looked a little strange. I wont post any more tweets from him.
 
Simbo said:
That twitter account does share a lot of good content, I wouldn't say it is a bad source. There are just a lot of questions about if he is really on the ground there, he seems to be just plucking it all from various telegram channels while pretending he's in the thick of it.
Click to expand...

If he's lying about being actually there, then he's pretty much automatically a bad source IMO. It makes him unreliable.
 
TwoSheds said:
Fair enough if you can't but I was wondering if you could give an example of what you mean by horizontal protests? Stuff like people downloading VPNs to access outside news, or something more direct like hacking / displaying symbols on public buildings perhaps?
Click to expand...
Spreading the information by any means possible, from the technical things like explaining how to set up a VPN to more expressive stuff like graffiti, printed materials, actions like putting up graveyard crosses on playgrounds with information about Mariupol, replacing shop price tags with information about the war crimes or even (this one sounds ridiculous but turned out to be incredibly effective) creating WhatsApp celebratory cards* for Easter, Victory Day etc. with anti-War texts on them. And, well, simply talking about it.

* not sure if that’s the thing out there but in Russia the elderly generation is obsessed with sending everyone those awfully looking pics with celebrations of every possible holiday — from something big like Christmas to obscure stuff like the international day of postal workers or smth.
 
Hacking also happens but I don’t know much about this stuff so I can’t really tell you about it. And I’m not sure how much of it is done by Russians and how much by Ukrainians or even the Anonymous.
 
harms said:
Spreading the information by any means possible, from the technical things like explaining how to set up a VPN to more expressive stuff like graffiti, printed materials, actions like putting up graveyard crosses on playgrounds with information about Mariupol, replacing shop price tags with information about the war crimes or even (this one sounds ridiculous but turned out to be incredibly effective) creating WhatsApp celebratory cards* for Easter, Victory Day etc. with anti-War texts on them. And, well, simply talking about it.

* not sure if that’s the thing out there but in Russia the elderly generation is obsessed with sending everyone those awfully looking pics with celebrations of every possible holiday — from something big like Christmas to obscure stuff like the international day of postal workers or smth.
Click to expand...

Interesting, thanks for explaining. Not sure it is a thing in the UK really but older Portuguese people do something a bit similar so I think I can understand it.
 
I cannot post the tweet here because it is so graphic, but Ukrainian journalist Anastasiia Lapatina has been posted some images of civilian dead from Mariupol.

The tweet says:

"This is #Mariupol. Dead bodies of Ukrainians rot at a supermarket. There are so many dead that there isn’t a capacity to bury them, even considering mass graves and mobile crematoriums. This should tell you everything you need to know about Russia’s war in Ukraine"

It is available on Twitter if you want to search for it.
 
Frosty said:
I cannot post the tweet here because it is so graphic, but Ukrainian journalist Anastasiia Lapatina has been posted some images of civilian dead from Mariupol.

The tweet says:

"This is #Mariupol. Dead bodies of Ukrainians rot at a supermarket. There are so many dead that there isn’t a capacity to bury them, even considering mass graves and mobile crematoriums. This should tell you everything you need to know about Russia’s war in Ukraine"

It is available on Twitter if you want to search for it.
Click to expand...
Even @Paxi couldn’t deny that.

Horrifying.
 
Rajma said:

If I talk I’m in a big trouble.
Click to expand...


When Putin makes a big push for peace talks, could mean he thinks they are in the strongest position they are going to get.

Watch out for all his western assets pushing his cause.
 
Last edited:
Ukraine's position is crystal clear. There will be no peace agreement unless Russia pulls out of Donbass and Crimea. Ceasefire can only happen if the rushist decides to pull his troops back to pre Feb 24 territories. Long story short, no chance of the war stopping in the near future.
 
Very interesting (and long) read here from the Institute for the Study of War:

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-may-28

Key Takeaways
  • Russian forces pressed the ground assault on Severodonetsk and its environs, making limited gains.
  • Russian forces in Kharkiv continue to focus efforts on preventing a Ukrainian counteroffensive from reaching the international border between Kharkiv and Belgorod.
  • Ukrainian forces began a counteroffensive near the Kherson-Mykolaiv oblast border approximately 70 km to the northeast of Kherson City that may have crossed the Inhulets River.
  • Russia’s use of stored T-62 tanks in the southern axis indicates Russia’s continued materiel and force generation problems.
  • Ukrainian partisan activity continues to impose costs on Russian occupation forces in Kherson and Zaporizhia oblasts.
 
Ukraine is starting to move in towards Kherson through the village of Davydiv Brid. It is slow progress due to the bad terrain for fighting in the South, but hopefully it's the start of something major.
 
spiriticon said:
Ukraine is starting to move in towards Kherson through the village of Davydiv Brid. It is slow progress due to the bad terrain for fighting in the South, but hopefully it's the start of something major.
Click to expand...

Can't imagine the Russians will be able to hold Kherson indefinitely with both the Ukrainians launcing a counteroffensive and the citizens randomly sabotaging them from within the city.
 
Raoul said:
Can't imagine the Russians will be able to hold Kherson indefinitely with both the Ukrainians launcing a counteroffensive and the citizens randomly sabotaging them from within the city.
Click to expand...

I have to admit the recent non-movement in that area had me a little concerned, especially upon hearing that they are building line after line of defence. I think a full frontal assault can't be done in that region until the MLRS systems arrive, but it's good to know that Ukraine are prodding the weak points.

IMO Russia is pushing all the best forces to the East. Their forces in the South gets all the backup crap from storage. It shouldn't be too hard to get the territory with the right equipment.
 
Water Melon said:
Ukraine's position is crystal clear. There will be no peace agreement unless Russia pulls out of Donbass and Crimea. Ceasefire can only happen if the rushist decides to pull his troops back to pre Feb 24 territories. Long story short, no chance of the war stopping in the near future.
Click to expand...

I was remiss not to offer sympathy to hear about the loss of your wifes cousins child.

I think your post to a link about Ukrainian toddlers being raped and dying as a result of those injuries was deleted because you titled it 'Orks'. I've looked back through the thread to comment on it and I couldn't find it anywhere.

I can't imagine anything more inhumane. The idea of raping children and babies is absolutely sick beyond belief, almost makes me want to both vomit and cry thinking about it. I really hope it is Ukranian propoganda and not true. If not the Russians must be ordering them to rape and kill citizens. It's beyond the pale.

All the best to you and your family and friends anyway pal.
 
spiriticon said:
I have to admit the recent non-movement in that area had me a little concerned, especially upon hearing that they are building line after line of defence. I think a full frontal assault can't be done in that region until the MLRS systems arrive, but it's good to know that Ukraine are prodding the weak points.

IMO Russia is pushing all the best forces to the East. Their forces in the South gets all the backup crap from storage. It shouldn't be too hard to get the territory with the right equipment.
Click to expand...

Yep. At some point, which will probably be after the MLRS and other heavy hardware arrive, the Ukrainian forces will have a go against enemy positions in the South while the best Russian forces will be kept busy in the East.

Just to reiterate a point I made the other day, the MLRS can be deployed about anywhere in the Kyiv Oblast and then they would hit anywhere inside occupied territories and even in the Black Sea if enemy ships have to be dealt with. If those are loaded with precision-guided missiles as well, watch out!
 
This guy, with his maps, provides another useful perspective, usually with daily updates:

 
Gehrman said:
I know. I shouldnt have quoted you. It was more a response to you and paxi's exchange.
Click to expand...
ThierryFabregas said:
I was remiss not to offer sympathy to hear about the loss of your wifes cousins child.

I think your post to a link about Ukrainian toddlers being raped and dying as a result of those injuries was deleted because you titled it 'Orks'. I've looked back through the thread to comment on it and I couldn't find it anywhere.

I can't imagine anything more inhumane. The idea of raping children and babies is absolutely sick beyond belief, almost makes me want to both vomit and cry thinking about it. I really hope it is Ukranian propoganda and not true. If not the Russians must be ordering them to rape and kill citizens. It's beyond the pale.

All the best to you and your family and friends anyway pal.
Click to expand...
It is inhumane. I will call these soldiers o-r-c-s and I will call Putin's policy Rushizm just like Zelenskyy does. Bucha turned in a Groznyy, people of Hostomel were not able to even approach their homes in ruins because in 2-3 km radius there was this smell of burnt and decaying bodies. Wearing masks did not help at all. The rushist troops that did all these atrocities in suburbs of Kyiv have been promoted to guard level. Make no mistake, Putin's wish is to erase Ukranians as a nation and turn Ukraine into a second rate Russian state. European leaders took it as just a small conflict initially, some sort of misunderstanding on Putin's behalf, because they never thought something like like this could ever happen in Europe again after WW II. Well, unfortunately it has happened, and if not for BoJo and Biden, we would see this fecking puppet Yanukovich being the president of Ukraine now. Huge support from the Baltic states, Poland, Czech Republic as well, as they know first hand how it feels to be under Russian oppression. France and Germany were the biggest hypocrites initally, thankfully, they are changing their tune and are starting to provide real economic and military support.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You must log in or register to reply here.