F1 2022 Season

hobbers said:
Horner did a good job spelling out the con Mercedes are trying to pull, telling their drivers to play up the health and safety aspect.

Would carry a bit more weight if they weren't the team running the lowest ride height yesterday, and the stiffest suspension on the grid in Monaco. Sacrificing their drivers' spines to make up for a crap car design.
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Horner would be complaining just as much if he was in the other position. Suprisingly in Martin Brundles column for skyf1 he said the Mercedes car is "excellent" if they can elimate the bouncing.

Hope FIA do something just to feck RedBull and Horner over. Couldnt happen to a nicer team principal.

In all seriousness its not just Mercedes drivers complaining. There is a health and saftey aspect here. F1 could end up landing with a giant NFL style lawsuit about brain trauma if they arent careful.
 
dinostar77 said:
Horner would be complaining just as much if he was in the other position. Suprisingly in Martin Brundles column for skyf1 he said the Mercedes car is "excellent" if they can elimate the bouncing.

Hope FIA do something just to feck RedBull and Horner over. Couldnt happen to a nicer team principal.
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What would ye in the Hamilton fan club be saying if it was the other way round, ye would probably be calling Horner a waster for not finding a way to figure out out.
 
christy87 said:
What would ye in the Hamilton fan club be saying if it was the other way round, ye would probably be calling Horner a waster for not finding a way to figure out out.
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Of course. Par for the course. Swings and roundabouts. Might make the season more interesting again though seeing as Ferrari are doing a great job of cocking it up.
 
More bad news for Leclerc.

The Italian team already used three turbochargers for Leclerc's car. If Ferrari has to replace them again (with a new one i.e. number 4 ) the driver will be penalized with no less than ten places. For Leclerc it would only make the challenge in Canada bigger, since he can then start from eleventh place at best.
 
dinostar77 said:
More bad news for Leclerc.

The Italian team already used three turbochargers for Leclerc's car. If Ferrari has to replace them again (with a new one i.e. number 4 ) the driver will be penalized with no less than ten places. For Leclerc it would only make the challenge in Canada bigger, since he can then start from eleventh place at best.
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I thought you got 4 engines a year
 
dinostar77 said:
Horner would be complaining just as much if he was in the other position. Suprisingly in Martin Brundles column for skyf1 he said the Mercedes car is "excellent" if they can elimate the bouncing.

Hope FIA do something just to feck RedBull and Horner over. Couldnt happen to a nicer team principal.

In all seriousness its not just Mercedes drivers complaining. There is a health and saftey aspect here. F1 could end up landing with a giant NFL style lawsuit about brain trauma if they arent careful.
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When Karun was showing the difference in ride height between Merc and Red Bull at Baku it looked by eye like it was about 2cm lower.

Running it that low is obviously what caused such severe bouncing, and presumably they only did that because they calculated they'd lose less time from the bottoming than from raising it and losing downforce. Every team is looking for a balance but Merc are clearly the ones most willing to sacrifice their drivers for pace.
 
BristolRuss said:
"The team is asking me, 'OK, we can compromise the setup?' and I'm compromising my health for the performance. And I'll always do it, because I'm a driver and I always go for the fastest car I can. But I don't think FIA should put us in a corner where you got to deal between health and performance. That's the tricky part of it, and clearly not sustainable. So that's what we discussed at the drivers' briefing and kind of alerted them on this problem, and try to ask them to find solutions to save us from ending up with a cane at 30 years old."

Bang on from Gasly. No surprise that Horner is complaining already. If the situation were reversed you would never hear the end of it from him.
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I think this is the best point, drivers will always say yes to having a faster car, they will keep going out there and destroying themselves for it and when it’s fixable with a regulation tweak then it should be seriously considered.

The Red Bull appears to run higher and with more rake so logic says they likely would keep their advantage anyway, Ferrari might be the one to suffer.

The FIA should have been on this when it was apparent towards the end of the tests it wasn’t something teams could fix easily. Personally I don’t want to watch F1 cars bouncing at high speed, they look ridiculous but any argument about mid season changes can be argued until blue in the face, it’s happened before and it will happen again.
 
Reading up on some of the comments it sounds like a ride height tweak isn’t going to change much anyway. It comes down to the suspension regulations which does complicate it all, I understand the reluctance from RB a bit more now.
 
They have to introduce active suspension from next year, surely. Every car looks absolutely dreadful out there. Bouncing, rubbing, inelegant bloated rubbish. It's amazing how fast they are in spite of it tbh.
 
Dan said:
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But I thought this back stuff was all a con by Toto.
Con my arse !!! There is real problems with the bouncing up damaging drivers spines, not only Mercedes are making waves about it.
I can see why Horner is saying it, because his cars are not bouncing around and to a point I agree that it is a team problem and getting all teams to rise their ride hight is unfair, but to call it a con is utter bollocks are the driver saying the same all lying , was Lewis putting it on getting put of the car, I dont think so.
When does a team problem become a heath problem that the FIA have to get involved with , I have no idea to be honest.
I dislike Horner , but I have to agree with him to a point.
 
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Said it a couple of races in and now the position of porpoising has gotten to a stage where I think it’s untenable now. I was worried about long term nerve and brain damage more than anything but the fact the short term impact has gotten so severe now means they absolutely have to step in.
Yeah, people can say the teams should change if it’s a problem / the drivers should just not drive but there are only a finite number of places on the grid and we know that if someone offers more money they can get a seat so you’re not going to refuse to race. Driver safety should be paramount and it’s clear that their health and safety is not being looked after to the extent it should. It’s embarrassing that the authorities are more concerned about fecking jewellery than stuff like this.
 
SilentWitness said:
Said it a couple of races in and now the position of porpoising has gotten to a stage where I think it’s untenable now. I was worried about long term nerve and brain damage more than anything but the fact the short term impact has gotten so severe now means they absolutely have to step in.
Yeah, people can say the teams should change if it’s a problem / the drivers should just not drive but there are only a finite number of places on the grid and we know that if someone offers more money they can get a seat so you’re not going to refuse to race. Driver safety should be paramount and it’s clear that their health and safety is not being looked after to the extent it should. It’s embarrassing that the authorities are more concerned about fecking jewellery than stuff like this.
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I can see them announcing in a few weeks that they will bring back active suspension from next season (I can see a situation where with all the bouncing a driver misses a braking point and causes a massive smash... think Russel alluded to this as well)
 
Camilo said:
They have to introduce active suspension from next year, surely. Every car looks absolutely dreadful out there. Bouncing, rubbing, inelegant bloated rubbish. It's amazing how fast they are in spite of it tbh.
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Has to be really. Especially with F1 wanting to do more street tracks with less than perfect road surfaces.

If they were driving on super smooth perfect tarmac we wouldn't be getting half of these issues, probably why the issues didn't seem that bad at Barcelona because it's a modern/well kept circuit.

Even back when they did drive ground effect cars they had more things allowed to combat the problems.

I don't see it as an issue at all if they allow every team the same ride height setup. If they want to save cost just have it provided to them for a set fee, rather than making them produce it themselves.
 
SilentWitness said:
Said it a couple of races in and now the position of porpoising has gotten to a stage where I think it’s untenable now. I was worried about long term nerve and brain damage more than anything but the fact the short term impact has gotten so severe now means they absolutely have to step in.
Yeah, people can say the teams should change if it’s a problem / the drivers should just not drive but there are only a finite number of places on the grid and we know that if someone offers more money they can get a seat so you’re not going to refuse to race. Driver safety should be paramount and it’s clear that their health and safety is not being looked after to the extent it should. It’s embarrassing that the authorities are more concerned about fecking jewellery than stuff like this.
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I cant disagree with any of this.
It is more than one team or driver saying they have back issues
OK I am one of those saying its a team problem for now and yes maybe the time has come for the FIA to step in.
Canada is another Baku and the bouncing will be just the same, some have said it could actually be worse.
Do the FIA step in now and say all team have to use this ride or that ride hight.
Toto would be happy, Hornor would be livid and make all sorts of accusations.
Would the other teams be happy, again I dont know, some will , some like Red Bull wont.
 
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pauldyson1uk said:
I cant disagree with any of this.
It is more than one team or driver saying they have back issues
OK I am one of those saying its a team problem for now and yes maybe the time has come for the FIA to step in.
Canada is another Baku and the bouncing will be just the same, some have said it could actually be worse.
Do the FIA step in now and say all team have to use this ride or that ride hight.
Toto would be happy, Hornor would be livid and make all sorts of accusations.
Would the other teams be happy, again I dont know.
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It could probably actually do with their most famous driver and joint record champion being forced to miss a race.

Imagine the worldwide coverage it would cause if he was unable to race because the cars are too bouncy? It's just not a good look for F1 at all.

I guess the difficult thing is to do this mid season, how can they change things, how will it effect the cost cap etc.

Can the cars even be adapted that quickly? I doubt it's something simple you can just add. I don't think anything can really be done until the summer break at the earliest.
 
Adam-Utd said:
It could probably actually do with their most famous driver and joint record champion being forced to miss a race.

Imagine the worldwide coverage it would cause if he was unable to race because the cars are too bouncy? It's just not a good look for F1 at all.

I guess the difficult thing is to do this mid season, how can they change things, how will it effect the cost cap etc.

Can the cars even be adapted that quickly? I doubt it's something simple you can just add. I don't think anything can really be done until the summer break at the earliest.
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Toto has said they can turn the bouncing one and off, so maybe a simple alteration is all that's needed ?
One thing I do know is this is going to rumble on all season and bring some heated discussions between teams and 2 individuals in particular.
 
pauldyson1uk said:
Toto has said they can turn the bouncing one and off, so maybe a simple alteration is all that's needed ?
One thing I do know is this is going to rumble on all season and bring some heated discussions between teams and 2 individuals in particular.
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I doubt they actually do otherwise why would they still be bouncing?

It seems like they thought it was fixed because it worked well at Barcelona, but I think that was purely a smooth track.

The issue seems to be at any circuits with less than perfectly smooth road. I suspect it'll be a dog at Montreal but then be perfect at Silverstone.

We will see at Montreal I guess. I think Hamilton would rather drive the car a bit slower with no bouncing, I don't think he will be able to take another session like that again.
 
Adam-Utd said:
I doubt they actually do otherwise why would they still be bouncing?

It seems like they thought it was fixed because it worked well at Barcelona, but I think that was purely a smooth track.

The issue seems to be at any circuits with less than perfectly smooth road. I suspect it'll be a dog at Montreal but then be perfect at Silverstone.

We will see at Montreal I guess. I think Hamilton would rather drive the car a bit slower with no bouncing, I don't think he will be able to take another session like that again.
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If they can I doubt they want to , it would make an already slower car even slower
Montreal is going to be tough, maybe the FIA will step in after ?
 
Would anyone of you get into this sport this season?

The FIA has done so many stupid decisions lately, everything for money and more viewers. Now half of the grid is complaining about being in pain because of the bouncing and cars being so unstable. Can't be good for the popularity of the sport surely? But when someone suggests any rule changes to change this, the same fans who say they want the sport to be more competitive just expect teams to raise the height because LMAOO FLASHTAPPEN RLZ LOUIS HAM FANBOIS CRYING R0FL.
 
pauldyson1uk said:
If they can I doubt they want to , it would make an already slower car even slower
Montreal is going to be tough, maybe the FIA will step in after ?
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They might not want to, but if Hamilton was genuinely unable to get out of his car unassisted, how can that be able to continue? they probably have to accept their drivers health is being effected and if they are slow, so be it.

As I said in my above post I can't see how the FIA can do anything mid season, it's not that simple cramming something into a car that is already packaged so tightly.

It'll require a complete redesign over the summer I think.
 
klsv said:
Would anyone of you get into this sport this season?

The FIA has done so many stupid decisions lately, everything for money and more viewers. Now half of the grid is complaining about being in pain because of the bouncing and cars being so unstable. Can't be good for the popularity of the sport surely? But when someone suggests any rule changes to change this, the same fans who say they want the sport to be more competitive just expect teams to raise the height because LMAOO FLASHTAPPEN RLZ LOUIS HAM FANBOIS CRYING R0FL.
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The first part good.
You let yourself down with the rest :rolleyes:
 
As Brundle said it's up to Merc to fix theory porposing. Not the FIA. It's really as simple as that.

Lewis even said they chose to have terrible porposing this week as they are completely unwilling to lose performance so they only have their own team to blame.
 
Adam-Utd said:
They might not want to, but if Hamilton was genuinely unable to get out of his car unassisted, how can that be able to continue? they probably have to accept their drivers health is being effected and if they are slow, so be it.

As I said in my above post I can't see how the FIA can do anything mid season, it's not that simple cramming something into a car that is already packaged so tightly.

It'll require a complete redesign over the summer I think.
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I think you are right, but surely that will mean either an increases in budget or suspend it for a season ?
 
Leg-End said:
Reading up on some of the comments it sounds like a ride height tweak isn’t going to change much anyway. It comes down to the suspension regulations which does complicate it all, I understand the reluctance from RB a bit more now.
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Ride height fixes it for most teams but according to Toto who isn't really a trustworthy source it won't fix it for Mercedes.

Even if that's the case that's their problem for building a dud car. But Lewis contradicted what Toto said anyway. He said they chose the crazy porposing.

The only thing the FIA should do this season is force teams with high porposing to be raise ride height etc at the cost of performance.

It's not up to the FIA to fix Mercedes concept.
 
Force teams like Mercedes to raise their ride heights until they stop bottoming, pretty simple.

Porpoising is a team issue and it’s the teams responsibilities to not give their drivers undriveable cars. The FIA won’t be doing anything to address it mid season.
 
laughtersassassin said:
As Brundle said it's up to Merc to fix theory porposing. Not the FIA. It's really as simple as that.

Lewis even said they chose to have terrible porposing this week as they are completely unwilling to lose performance so they only have their own team to blame.
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If it was one team and one driver saying it, then yes I agree, but its not it is most of the drivers saying it.
I bet Brundell would not put up with it when he was driving.
 
pauldyson1uk said:
If it was one team and one driver saying it, then yes I agree, but its not it is most of the drivers saying it.
I bet Brundell would not put up with it when he was driving.
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They can raise ride height and lose performance. Lando agreed. Only Toto says that doesn't work and Lewis contradicted that.

FIA can force the teams with a excessive porposing to raise ride height as required. That way those teams aren't being rewarded for their own mistakes in design.

Then they'll have ample reasoning to develop fixes as other teams have already successfully done.

Any solution cannot advantage the teams who made a design that is currently porposing too much. It would be absolute nonsense to implement a change that would do so.
 
pauldyson1uk said:
You let yourself down with the rest :rolleyes:
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How is that? You see so many people here and elsewhere saying they want to see a three way race for the title, only to go and suggest teams that suffer with porpoising to choose between health of their drivers and the performance. Seems kind of a bad idea if you want a three-way race, no?
 
laughtersassassin said:
They can raise ride height and lose performance. Lando agreed.

FIA can force the teams with a excessive porposing to raise ride height as required. That way those teams aren't being rewarded for their own mistakes in design.

Then they'll have ample reasoning to develop fixes as other teams have already successfully done.

Any solution cannot advantage the teams who made a design that is currently porposing too much. It would be absolute nonsense to implement a change that would do so.
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I sort of agree, but getting only some teams to rise ride hight and leave others that don't have a problem , Red Bull to carry on, how is that fair.
It has to be FIA do nothing and teams sort it or not and suffer or the give a blanket rule that everybody has to follow, but a blanket rule will affect the teams that don't have a problem to their determent.
I will be honest I am sat right on the fence, I agree bad design is the problem and teams that have solved it should not be punished ( for want of another word) but then driver heath and safety has to come in to it.
 
klsv said:
How is that? You see so many people here and elsewhere saying they want to see a three way race for the title, only to go and suggest teams that suffer with porpoising to choose between health of their drivers and the performance. Seems kind of a bad idea if you want a three-way race, no?
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Yeah fair point, you got me.
 
pauldyson1uk said:
I sort of agree, but getting only some teams to rise ride hight and leave others that don't have a problem , Red Bull to carry on, how is that fair.
It has to be FIA do nothing and teams sort it or not and suffer or the give a blanket rule that everybody has to follow, but a blanket rule will affect the teams that don't have a problem to their determent.
I will be honest I am sat right on the fence, I agree bad design is the problem and teams that have solved it should not be punished ( for want of another word) but then driver heath and safety has to come in to it.
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Red Bull already run higher than Merc for one.

Also if its in the interest of Saftey only the teams who have an issue with the Saftey need to be affected.

So only applies to those it's a problem for. Very very fair all things considered.

So either FIA should do nothing at all or only hinder the teams with porposing for "Saftey"
 
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laughtersassassin said:
Red Bull already run higher than Merc for one.

Also if its in the interest of Saftey only the teams who have an issue with the Saftey need to be affected.

So only applies to those it's a problem for. Very very fair all things considered.

So either FIA should do nothing at all or only hinder the teams with porposing for "Saftey"
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You make fair points. But the teams suffering will not accept being hindered, but something has to be done.
 
the main issue is that mercedes aren’t that interested in raising the ride heightor compromising performance, they just want to make another dominate rocket ship. they had a car radically different to the others. they just want it to be like the hybrid era and be eons ahead of the chasing pack.

and who can blame them? they don’t need to care about the welfare of their drivers. hamilton is old and will retire soon no matter what and they have a factory full of spare parts to fix anything that goes wrong on cyborg model russell.
 
pauldyson1uk said:
You make fair points. But the teams suffering will not accept being hindered, but something has to be done.
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So the only thing they will accept is being given an advantage to where they are now?

Sounds like they are just angling to get someone to fix their problems.

Easiest solution here is to leave it as is so. Teams can be warned to not put their drivers under a specific amount of G or face fines that come out of their cost cap or something.
 
pauldyson1uk said:
I sort of agree, but getting only some teams to rise ride hight and leave others that don't have a problem , Red Bull to carry on, how is that fair.
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It's fair because they designed the best car.

Which is why they could run a good 2+cm higher than Mercedes on Sunday and yet finish a minute in front of them.
 
pauldyson1uk said:
Toto has said they can turn the bouncing one and off, so maybe a simple alteration is all that's needed ?
One thing I do know is this is going to rumble on all season and bring some heated discussions between teams and 2 individuals in particular.
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He said that about the aero issue for the porposing which they have resolved. This is a different type of porposing (frequency) which they are struggling to fix. Hamilton ran a different floor and rear suspension to Russell last sunday which was a step in the wrong direction as his car was bouncing more than russells.

Every team on the grid would love to look at RBs rear suspension setup, unfortunately its hidden from view by the drive train. Whatever they have done does seem to be the answer.
 
hobbers said:
Force teams like Mercedes to raise their ride heights until they stop bottoming, pretty simple.

Porpoising is a team issue and it’s the teams responsibilities to not give their drivers undriveable cars. The FIA won’t be doing anything to address it mid season.
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FIA have changed the rules midseason on a number of occasions in the past. The teams will never agree on this issue so it will end up with FIA forcing it on health and saftey grounds either by the summer break or before it.

During the sunday drivers association vote, every driver apart from alonso (yes max included) agreed that something had to be done about the porposing for all the cars on health and safety grounds.
 
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