Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion
- Thread starter Wednesday at Stoke
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Taking glee at the horror of innocent people? Jee, I wonder if the reaction would be the same if someone posted the same to people fleeing Tel Aviv's beaches when there are sirens going on during rocket attacks
Wtf is wrong with people.
Haven't you heard that all russians are orcs?
personally think the meme-ification of war is sick no matter who's doing it. crimea was and is an obvious target. the country is at war. the russian government shouldn't have let its citizens vacation there, except those who historically live there and have for decades. if you're traveling to crimea for a holiday i have little sympathy for you. on the other hand, i also don't have any sympathy for people collectively rejoicing over videos with quaint holiday theme music playing over bombs being dropped. that makes you either sick or in a position where you've lost a large part of your humanity. can understand the second one from a ukrainian point of view because they'e at war. harder to understand it from a non-ukrainian point of view, which will be most people, because you aren't being bombed or invaded.
when 9/11 happened, many arabs celebrated it. they did it because they were sick and tired of the us doing things in arab land. but that was obviously not right. the people in the towers weren't the ones making life difficult for the arab population. but that didn't matter because they just saw "america attacked" as a symbol of something that had to be good no matter what it actually meant. that's the same thing you're seeing here. people are happy when russians, who aren't in the military, are facing terrible conditions not because those people have done anything themselves but because they see it as "russia attacked". it's a bad look. was when 9/11 happened, is now.
the above video is basically the situation i see many people in today though at least most of those in the video are children. not sure they're aware of how wrong it is. the tel aviv exampe is a good one. throughout all the intifadas and flare ups, i've never seen palestinian advocates, who aren't living in palestine, cheer at the thought of innocent israelis potentially dying.
when 9/11 happened, many arabs celebrated it. they did it because they were sick and tired of the us doing things in arab land. but that was obviously not right. the people in the towers weren't the ones making life difficult for the arab population. but that didn't matter because they just saw "america attacked" as a symbol of something that had to be good no matter what it actually meant. that's the same thing you're seeing here. people are happy when russians, who aren't in the military, are facing terrible conditions not because those people have done anything themselves but because they see it as "russia attacked". it's a bad look. was when 9/11 happened, is now.
the above video is basically the situation i see many people in today though at least most of those in the video are children. not sure they're aware of how wrong it is. the tel aviv exampe is a good one. throughout all the intifadas and flare ups, i've never seen palestinian advocates, who aren't living in palestine, cheer at the thought of innocent israelis potentially dying.
Are you seriously comparing the thousands of civilians getting killed in 9/11 to some Russian tourists having to cut their holiday short?
I don't know what the hell are you talking about. Russian civilians were not attacked, they are not facing "terrible conditions" or "suffering" like other poster suggested (unless our understanding of those words are completely different). Cutting holiday short is not suffering, it's a minor inconvenience compared to what their country is doing in Ukraine. Destroying a base in Crimea is a big milestone for Ukraine and unlike Russia, they didn't have to destroy entire towns and kill 100s of civilians to achieve that.
Is there any proof that this actually a UA strike and not some sort of sabotage/diversion? I don't think anyone saw any jets or missiles , and also don't think there are impact craters? The Russian explanation is of course as always comical.
Last edited:
i'm comparing it to people playing war like a video game replete with memes.
i'd say this tweet encapsulates the exact point i made. she says she feels joy and then blames the kremlin for making her feel joy. at least she's aware of the contradiction.
There looks to be 3 big craters in this photo, the fact that all 3 seems to be the same size indicates some kind of missile strike.
Judging by the size of the craters a warhead of a considerable size must have been used, this is Kalibr, Tomahawk, ATACMS or Iskander sized craters in my opinion.
Contradictions are generally irrelevant in war, especially when you factor in the existential survival of a nation.
A Norwegian expert said he thought the most likely explanation was sabotage, not a missile strike.
absolutely. and i get why ukraine does what it has to do. those meme clips have obvious internal propaganda value for morale and they don't have the luxury of thinking too much about contradictions. it's the secondary overspill through the internet that is new. most people are not in the ukrainians' position. it's that which bothers me but ironically the ukrainians seem to understand the contradiction more than people just looking in.
Wonder what some of you here think about EU visa ban for Russian citizens (some countries already started implementing it on their own because some usual suspects like Scholz has a "hard time with this idea"). Some serious suffering and terrible conditions for "innocent" Russian people too I guess.
Some on twitter identified 20-25m impact crators from satelite photos. How accurate that is I'm unsure. The fact cars were blown out from 200m away at least indicates it was a mother of all bomb type of effect
Harms already covered this and I couldn't argue with his reasons against it tbh. Only helps Putin.
I don't know. I know a few wonderful Russian people who travel and work in Europe a lot and they are completely against the war. Europe is not directly at war with Russia, we are just helping Ukraine defend itself. I'm not sure there is a precedent for this.
I have complete sympathy for normal, innocent, Russians. I'm Pakistani and have to live a lot of my adult life with the stigma of being brown and a Muslim, and having an extra set of eyes that make you feel like a villain. A colleague of mine who is Russian and works in the UK was worried that his bank account might get frozen just because he's a Russian national.
Thankfully having a Canadian passport has relinquished me from the humiliation of having to go through a long visa process, but I know a lot of people who have had to go through that, and have been "randomly" stopped at airports for extra screening.
So yea, it's a stupid policy that is only used for people you want to hate. Russia is doing what other western countries have been doing for an untold number of years.
Fecking hilarious seeing people flee in fear for their lives isn't it?
Last edited:
The relative random location of the craters (in the picture above) shows that it was a missile strike, imo.
Possibly the attacks were highly accurate, saw some analysis that they exactly hit three storage areas on the site.
Nonetheless that doesn't contradict the sabotage speculation, if you manage to destroy the ammo storages you get some nice explosions.
It's a bad comparison. In Tel Aviv civilians who live there are under attack and have to flee for their lives.
In Crimea a military target was attacked and idiots suddenly realize that they are on vacation in a contested warzone. It's a completely different situation.
That's the thing. I have a sympathy for normal, innocent Russians too. However I think we can all agree, it's a minority. Majority still supports the war in Ukraine, supports Putin. So the question is, how do you punish those people without affecting the innocent, normal minority? I think the idea here is to take away something that their people take for granted, which has been happening for decades - shit on EU, western countries but still be able to freely travel, holiday, work here.
Probably not by restricting their travel visas. I tend to believe that those who often spend time in western countries are more likely to be non-supporters of this war.
https://www.politifact.com/iraq-war-polls/
https://news.gallup.com/poll/8038/seventytwo-percent-americans-support-war-against-iraq.aspx
it's not a new thing. doesn't justify collective punishment if you assume the russians have been propagandized into support the same way the americans were. the majority of americans had no role in deciding to go to war with iraq. in fact a tiny minority decided that. there is no difference here that i can see.
the travel thing is a bad idea. do it at state level, as is already happening and has been done.
Spare a thought for the feelings of invading rapists, aspiring castrators, and lebensraum vacationers squatting on stolen land.
Why the feck do you always bring US into a discussion.
your argument is that the majority of russians are bad because they support the war. does that hold up as true in the american case? i don't think so and i think me forcing you to consider it irritates you because you know it's a contradiction. in each case, an incredibly tiny minority decided on war and then propagandized the public into accepting it and the military never has a choice, that's part of their role. they do what they're told.
Maybe. Or maybe it will have some positive effect in Russia because it will mostly affect the upper class people as mid/lower class simply could never afford travelling outside Russia. Who knows. But the fact that it brought an outrage from Russian MFA spokeswoman is a good sign IMO.
There are people who live in Crimea as well who might be running in those videos, why are we assuming all of them are vacationers? The same can be said for those in the video in Tel Aviv, I'm sure it's a popular holiday resort.
Unlike the Ukraine military, funded to the kilt by western nations, Palestinians aren't able to afford laser guided missiles so their aim would be a bit off. And hardly any of their missiles even manage to do damage because Israel's defense is funded by the US, unlike in Crimea who actually saw a missile hit close by.
The point still remains, both videos show civilians running from dangerous situations when their country is the aggressor in a war, one gets sympathy, he'll you'd be called a racist for making fun of them, while the other group is vilified.
I am not American, I don't know what they propagandise or not propagandise and I have no idea why you always bring US into discussions here. You obviously hate them but you don't have to constantly repeat the same things and present it as facts. I am from a former soviet union country which was lucky enough to escape it and join the NATO/EU. My views are probably biased but I have absolutely no illusions about Russia as a country. While some western countries were busy trying to convince everyone that Russia has changed etc., we knew it was absolutely not the case. Russia, as a country in general is rotten to the core and I am sick of seeing the west trying to play nice with them while they are laughing behind our backs seeing how spineless we usually are. We are always thinking about how not to offend or God forbid create some inconveniences for Russians first rather than look after our own people who were struggling for decades under the Soviet rule or the ones that are currently dying in the Ukraine as we speak.
I think so too, it will mostly impact the elites and those living in Moscow and St. Petersburg which is what Putin is afraid of.
You clearly struggle to differentiate hitting military targets or hitting whatever as long as it touches the ground.
i don't actually. that was the point i was making. i don't hate the russians either. the two situations are absolutely parallel. two populations where the majority had no say in a war but "supported" it. it's on you how you want to think your way around it. but claiming majority complicity is problematic if you have any interest in being consistent with your logic. which means to be truthful or attempt it.
Taking glee at the horror of innocent people? Jee, I wonder if the reaction would be the same if someone posted the same to people fleeing Tel Aviv's beaches when there are sirens going on during rocket attacks
Wtf is wrong with people.
It's interesting how bloodthirsty people get, not from being involved in the war but just by following it voyeuristically online. That's the people tweets like these are aimed at.
I think they are more so aimed at lifting the morale of domestic audiences by demonstrating how their troops (family members) are striking back at an invading army that has traumatized their nation.
All starts with this childish 'orcs' stuff, people learn about WW2 in school and how Hitler slowly turned a whole nation against groups of people he decided were 'bad' and yet the dehumanisation of Russians is commonplace in this thread. Needs to stop, we are better than that.
The way I understand it, many Russians in Crimea settled there to rig the referendum. So you can hardly say they are fully innocent since they definitely know what they were doing and why.
But I get the reservations about content like this. It's not my thing either. Despite all those horror stories, I imagine most Russians and even most Russian soldiers are no despicable human beings but mainly just people who have been manipulated to support the war (respectively to participate in it). Very few human beings are evil by nature.
Exactly. Even if you see it purely strategical, empathy helps you understand the enemy (and possibly undermine his morale). Dehumanizing them won't help in any capacity (except maybe soldiers having to kill their Russian counterparts).
When orcs stop doing orcs things, we stop calling them orcs. Very straight forward.
The domestic audiences probably speak Ukrainian, and civilians aren't a part of the invading army. It's civilians dying we're celebrating here, not military targets.