F1 2023 Season

slyadams said:
Its amazing how many F1 designers are in this thread declaring the Merc a 'fundamentally' flawed concept without really knowing what is going on behind the scenes. Hopefully the above is true, Imola brings what is basically the 'first' iteration of the updated car and from then on Merc can develop on the platform as they thought they would be able to when they came up with it last year.
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Most are just believing Mercedes' own words and body language when they say they're miles off.

No other car on the grid believes in their concept, it appears like they Mercedes don't believe in it and it keeps refusing to work whilst teams using other concepts (especially in AM's case, which is 50% Mercedes) pull further away from them.

It could be a huge bluff and the latest updates could improve them by a second a lap, whilst also improving their tyre wear by 25%, and if so I'm sure many would be delighted.
 
pauldyson1uk said:
so the W14 is not really the W14 , it is a ungraded W13 while they wait for the real W14 to be finished, or am I reading that wrong ?
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I read it as its a halfway house between the two and the upgrades in race 6 should make it the W14.
 
Merc's ability to keep their fans hanging on through a season is very impressive.
 
slyadams said:
Its amazing how many F1 designers are in this thread declaring the Merc a 'fundamentally' flawed concept without really knowing what is going on behind the scenes. Hopefully the above is true, Imola brings what is basically the 'first' iteration of the updated car and from then on Merc can develop on the platform as they thought they would be able to when they came up with it last year.
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People like @dinostar77 have been saying it since the last year that the concept is flawed, and Toto finally admit it this year. Knowing what is going on behind the scenesmakes no difference, flawed design is flawed design, if Mercedes admit it earlier they would at least be bit happier this year than they are. They were very surprised that their design that everyone know was flawed somehow didn't fix itself at start of this season.
 
Amar__ said:
People like @dinostar77 have been saying it since the last year that the concept is flawed, and Toto finally admit it this year. Knowing what is going on behind the scenesmakes no difference, flawed design is flawed design, if Mercedes admit it earlier they would at least be bit happier this year than they are. They were very surprised that their design that everyone know was flawed somehow didn't fix itself at start of this season.
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Sorry, but I don't agree with this. A bunch of home enthusiasts watching on TV and declaring "this design is fundamentally flawed" doesn't hold much weight compared to an 8-time world championship winning team with 100s of engineers. Does this mean the design will ever work? I don't know, but neither does anyone on here. Would it surprise me if its a concept that will just very hard to get right and in 12 months Merc is 0.5s clear? Nope.
 
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Pirelli have explained the logic behind the new qualifying format which will be trialled at two Grand Prix weekends this season.

F1 is set to try out a revised qualifying format at two individual Grand Prix weekends this season, separate to the Sprint Qualifying format which will be used at six events in 2023.

The revised format will see drivers forced to use the Hard compound for Q1, the Medium compound for Q2, and the Soft compound for Q3, and is aimed at reducing the amount of tyre sets Pirelli ship to each Grand Prix – the change would allow the tyre manufacturer to bring just 11 sets of slick tyres per car, a reduction from 13.


The inside story from Pirelli on the new F1 2023 qualifying format trial : PlanetF1
 
All these tyre things they're trying are stupid.

F1 needs to use a feck ton of tyres and the tyres need to be heated. Get over it and focus on saving carbon elsewhere. Like maybe scheduling the races in different continents in a non-insane way.
 
pauldyson1uk said:
I dont think so , he drives the car, he knows its not right, how pissed would you be if in your job, you knew something was wrong, knew how to solve it but was ignored.
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Except he doesn't have a ghost of a clue how to solve it.

It's so easy to say 'this car is slow we need to do something radical to make it faster next season', provided you're not then expected to have any input on what that would be.
 
pauldyson1uk said:
I dont think so , he drives the car, he knows its not right, how pissed would you be if in your job, you knew something was wrong, knew how to solve it but was ignored.
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He is publicly blaming his teammates, what exactly he is going to accomplish? Make himself look smart?

SilentWitness said:
I can’t see anywhere in that article where he says that.
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You made it sound like that.
 
Amar__ said:
He is publicly blaming his teammates, what exactly he is going to accomplish? Make himself look smart?



You made it sound like that.
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Not really. He’s 38, has little time to add another title to be the undisputed GOAT while arguably already is. He has the right to be arrogant and believe he is and was correct about the car. He’s not talking about sabotage or being harsh. Just stating facts that it’s a crap car and that they should have listened when he said it’s crap and going in a poor direction. Nothing to do with sabotage on purpose or the nonsense you’re talking.
 
So much money wasted on all those nerds when he knew how to fix it all this time, lul
 
R'hllor said:
So much money wasted on all those nerds when he knew how to fix it all this time, lul
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Imagine they'll all be thrilled with him saying they need to acknowledge how wrong they were not to listen to him when he told them to make the car go faster.

Maybe Toto can make him head of engineering as well in this next contract.
 
Amar__ said:
https://amp.theguardian.com/sport/2...-didnt-listen-to-his-concerns-over-new-f1-car

Pretty harsh on his teammates.
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No idea how you got that from that article. Its well know for years that Mercedes try to produce the best car for the rules for any given season. They never favour any drivers particular driving style for any of their drivers. Their drivers then adjust the car via setup to their liking. Unlike ferrari who normally design the car around their no1 driver: schmacher, alonso, vettel. Or RedBull around max.

Now i think Mercedes are missing a trick, their turbo hybrid advantage is gone. They need to maximise every last tenth out of the car. So build it around hamilton. Use him while you have him and when hes gone, then built it around russell. Do what ferrari have done for years and RedBull do now.

On a sidenote, i think this all alludes to issues internally at Mercedes. Hamilton and James Allison got on well. Maybe Mike Elliot and hamilton dont. Maybe there is a lack of hubris from mercedes technical design team.

Regardless not taking advice and suggestions from your 7 times wolrd champion, is reckless, naive and stupid.
 
hobbers said:
Imagine they'll all be thrilled with him saying they need to acknowledge how wrong they were not to listen to him when he told them to make the car go faster.

Maybe Toto can make him head of engineering as well in this next contract.
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He's one of the all time greats with 20 plus years of experience. He might just have an idea to help fix some issues, maybe listening to him might help. If you have level of success so you suggest an idea or 2 , gets ignored and car continued to be slow, wouldn't that annoy you? I know of some of you dislike him but the lengths you go to do it is weird.
 
Rooney1987 said:
He's one of the all time greats with 20 plus years of experience. He might just have an idea to help fix some issues, maybe listening to him might help. If you have level of success so you suggest an idea or 2 , gets ignored and car continued to be slow, wouldn't that annoy you? I know of some of you dislike him but the lengths you go to do it is weird.
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Exactly , If any other driver had said it nothing would have been said.
 
SilentWitness said:
Not really. He’s 38, has little time to add another title to be the undisputed GOAT while arguably already is. He has the right to be arrogant and believe he is and was correct about the car. He’s not talking about sabotage or being harsh. Just stating facts that it’s a crap car and that they should have listened when he said it’s crap and going in a poor direction. Nothing to do with sabotage on purpose or the nonsense you’re talking.
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Well they didn't. And it's still the 3rd best car last year, and will probably be something like that this year too. So they weren't that wrong, it's just that Red Bull made very good car no one comes even close.

Can you show me what exactly did he accomplish by criticising his teammates?
 
Rooney1987 said:
He's one of the all time greats with 20 plus years of experience. He might just have an idea to help fix some issues, maybe listening to him might help. If you have level of success so you suggest an idea or 2 , gets ignored and car continued to be slow, wouldn't that annoy you? I know of some of you dislike him but the lengths you go to do it is weird.
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Posts have nothing to do with Hamilton, it was aimed towards a claim of poster, that he knew how to solve a problem, spinning that as some hate posts towards Hamilton... talk about weird.
 
Amar__ said:
Well they didn't. And it's still the 3rd best car last year, and will probably be something like that this year too. So they weren't that wrong, it's just that Red Bull made very good car no one comes even close.

Can you show me what exactly did he accomplish by criticising his teammates?
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indeed they didn’t and both him and Russell have came out to say it’s not a good car. As has Toto. Unfortunately due to how big they are in the sport and their achievements recently, anything less than 2nd best is bad for them.

There is no accomplishment for criticising them or for praising them. Both in the grand scheme of things don’t mean much. If you have a good car you’ll say what a great team, if you have a bad car you’ll say we haven’t got it right and need to change. It isn’t about accomplishing but Lewis has always been someone who rightly or wrongly says what’s on his mind. Toto earlier in the week admitted as much that the car was crap too. It just feels like people want another stick to beat Hamilton with.
 
Amar__ said:
Well if you spend your seasons complaining about things then you'll definitely have people that are not big fan of it.
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Are there any drivers at top teams that don’t complain when they’re not winning and have a bad car?
 
SilentWitness said:
Are there any drivers at top teams that don’t complain when they’re not winning and have a bad car?
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Most of them complain less than Hamilton. Only Max comes close from the current lot, probably just few come close in the past 25 years I have been watching.
 
Amar__ said:
Most of them complain less than Hamilton. Only Max comes close from the current lot, probably just few come close in the past 25 years I have been watching.
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And most of them don’t come close to the records of Hamilton.
 
It's just funny that any driver thinks they know better than a team of engineers and aerodynamicists. This thread would be cracking up if Max started whinging in public because Adrien Newey and his boys were ignoring his car design input.
 
SilentWitness said:
And most of them don’t come close to the records of Hamilton.
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So because he is winning he has right to complain? I wasn't aware that no one is allowed to criticise your interviews if you are couple of time world champion.
 
Amar__ said:
So because he is winning he has right to complain? I wasn't aware that no one is allowed to criticise your interviews if you are couple of time world champion.
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He's a 7 time world champion of course he does. He publicly praised the efforts when they won titles and he has the right to tell them this current car isn't good enough.

I can't believe people are annoyed at him for this.
 
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