prigozhin must know he'll need to stay away from windows and stairs from now on till the end of his life, surely? Completing the coup is his only way out.
Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
It's a totally different situation. Ukraine were at war with a foreign enemy, here Putin has to look at an insider, he isn't in a situation where he need or can inspire anyone.
Good little video piece by Vice.
Trusting Putin is like trusting Gollum, he will backstab you when the opportunity is right.
What's the plan then? Make Putin and the Russian army look weak?
Question the authority of the military leadership? Create further divides by making people pick sides?
Not the same inspiration, but his whole.image is projecting strength . So looking a coward is not that great for him. Also, according to his spokesperson he didn't evacuate. So it means that for them that image is important.
wait what, that actually happened?In some way, Prigozhin managed to come close to Moscow without spelling much blood, and it's hard to imagine an all-out conflict between the Wagners and the Russian army, especially inside Moscow. Imagine the damages to their capital. Prigozchin has made his point clear, and it's yet to see what happens to Shoigu and Gerasimov, i.e. Putin may have agreed to start an investigation on whether the Wagners were shelled or not. It is possible that this could have happened without Putin's knowledge.
So, no more bloodshed in Russia, just in Ukraine.
Putin's position weakened massively both with his people and elsewhere.
Surely this will help Ukraine overall. You can get to the outskirts of Moscow without bloodshed.
Putin's position weakened massively both with his people and elsewhere.
Surely this will help Ukraine overall. You can get to the outskirts of Moscow without bloodshed.
The amount of embarrassment its caused Putin suggests it wasn't staged. Particularly given that Prigozhin has been moaning about Shoigu for months.
I don't really understand Prigozhin's thought process in accepting this deal. His primary aim seems to have been to prevent Wagner from being absorbed into the MOD and his power/influence eliminated. He's supposedly accomplished that, but he's also abandoned all of the tactical advantages he had in this scenario along with putting a huge target on his bald head. He's moving from a place where Putin and Shoigu can't attack him without jeopardizing the broader war back to the front lines where he could catch an errant missile.
The only way for Putin to save face and prevent a repeat is to kill him, which I imagine could happen soon.
The only way for Putin to save face and prevent a repeat is to kill him, which I imagine could happen soon.
So you think they couldn't come up with a better scenario than one where Putin looks weak, soldiers die and helicopters get shot down, moscow appears under attack and prigozhin signed his own death warrant, huh?
One possibility is that he realized he was in over his head by going to Moscow and was looking for an off ramp or pause, so he could either get out of this (not likely) or reassess what his next move is. Either case, its not going to end well for him.
He was given assurances he won't get permed though.
Assuming this isn't a false flag, which i don't think it is, for a number of reasons.
NATO sending in the fighter jets to destroy Russian positions in Ukraine, what response would that trigger from Russia? They just looked terribly weak dealing with a private army.
NATO sending in the fighter jets to destroy Russian positions in Ukraine, what response would that trigger from Russia? They just looked terribly weak dealing with a private army.
The small chance that Russia would respond with a tactical nuke means that will never happen.
I have no idea at all, I’ve just come to instinctively doubt whatever the official version of events from Russia is!
It would've been disastrous for Putin if he discharged any kind of WMD inside Russia, since a lot of civilians would've been killed in the process.
The guarantees are supposed to be about not dismantling Wagner, right?
This is not going to end well for anyone connected to Wagner and loyal to Prigozhin, surely?
I reckon prigozhin has the majority of the military and the security services on his side. He's probably been given control of the defence ministry and putin will take a back seat ala Medvedev style.
Or everything is tits up and we know nowt.
Nuking themselves might be seen as a bit of an overreaction by the Russian people.
Yeah, but wouldn’t he target positions in Ukraine?
There is no official version, they were shown reacting to events instead of controlling the narrative.
Seems like he’s a bit thick, a common theme in Kremlin.
I don’t get this, from either end.
Surely Putin can’t just go back to trusting him to carry out his orders after he marched his army to Moscow?
Equally, regardless of what assurances he’s received, surely he can’t believe that Putin won’t have him killed at the earliest possible opportunity.
I don’t see how either side is supposed to go back to cooperating after this.
Surely Putin can’t just go back to trusting him to carry out his orders after he marched his army to Moscow?
Equally, regardless of what assurances he’s received, surely he can’t believe that Putin won’t have him killed at the earliest possible opportunity.
I don’t see how either side is supposed to go back to cooperating after this.
Aren't they a "public" army with private "rules"?
This, Shoigu's resignation and allowing them to go back to Africa murdering and raping folk there.
The US have already back channeled to Putin that they would respond with a conventional attack on Russians if he used a tactical nuke in Ukraine.
Maybe they got his family ? I don't see any other way to cause such an abrupt heelturn.
While it was likely a suicide mission, I think his chances of succeeding in this "surprise" rebellion were much higher than they will be in any subsequent event, and, by giving in, he's signed his death warrant.
Girkin wants his attention too:
This. He had the element of surprise and had a motivated and hardened force. He actually had a fair chance I think, if more units joined along the way.
Yeah, but the question was what would Russia respond with, if NATO attacked them conventionally as things stand now. So the threat of a conventional attack kinda goes out the window if it already happened.
True. Unless this is some sort of elaborate 4d chess fake by Prigozhin. All other signs point to him getting killed since he has made Putin look incredibly weak by fleeing the capital.
Interesting if the above was published after Prigozhin announced he was pulling back.
If Gerasimoigu get replaced and Wagner continues to exist, it would appear that he got what he wanted from Putin by blackmail. Not a small feat.