F1 2023 Season

Redplane said:
If you take Max out of the equation its a greatly competitive season. People are so focused on no 1 they fail to pay attention to the rest. The one good message DtS tried to send. Was it boring when the Patriots or the Bulls won just about everything? Tiger Woods? Michael Phelps? Tyson or Ali? Etc. Domination exists in every sport, and in a way we probably won't fully appreciate it until its all well and done.
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Well winning is all that matters. Who gives a shit who wins the "battle" (because everything is a heroic struggle these days) for 2nd, or 5th, or 12th? Certainly not me.

And as others have said - having better machinery, and winning, isn't the same as any of your other examples.
 
dinostar77 said:
Difference is during Mercedes domination Nico Rosberg was challenging Hamilton. After he left, Vettel challenged Hamilton for 2 seasons. There is no challenge for max which is its as dull as hamilton/bottas years without a ferrari challenge.
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This is it exactly, if Max was winning every race after a wheel to wheel racing then that would not be so bad, it would be exciting, he even wins the sprint races with ease.
 
Redplane said:
Ah yes, great counter argument :lol:
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Hardly worth a counter tbh. I will just give you a simple answer from the bookies odds perspective just to explain how this is going. Patriots & bulls played team sports where they lost a large number of individual games while winning championships. On an individual game basis patriots were not a huge favourite in every game they played for example. Max started the race in 6th today and he was 1.25 as per the bookies to win the race. This is not his or RB at fault, they are doing a great job but for most viewers this is pretty difficult to watch.
 
Redplane said:
If you take Max out of the equation its a greatly competitive season. People are so focused on no 1 they fail to pay attention to the rest. The one good message DtS tried to send. Was it boring when the Patriots or the Bulls won just about everything? Tiger Woods? Michael Phelps? Tyson or Ali? Etc. Domination exists in every sport, and in a way we probably won't fully appreciate it until its all well and done.
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I think Max is utterly fantastic, and is on another level to what he was even in 2021, I appreciate his talent. I just don't care who finishes 2nd though - I find it boring. As others have said as well, the examples you gave were operating on even playing fields. Max has the best car by far. I get that the car building is part of the sport, but I don't really care about the constructors championship. At the moment the sport just isn't really for me
 
11101 said:
If he gets the 8 I think he will go and do something else. Its why 2021 was such a farce, he would have left and opened the door for Max the following season anyway. There was no need to fix it.
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Yes definitely. I was absolutely livid at what happened in 2021 when he was robbed by a foolish person who quite rightly was sacked for it. So I remain positive that he will get his 8th.
 
laughtersassassin said:
Red Bull not even near the top speeds shown. Top speed alone means nothing in F1.

It's about a balance between everything

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I think the point is Hamilton ran a low DF setup and was still nowhere near an RB. They have such an advantage they can crank wing on, still be fast in the traps and also have a great setup for S2 at Spa.

They aren’t going to be reeled in at this point, another 3 seasons of it.
 
Good on Max for keep on winning, but the sports is almost done for a semi-casual viewer. Even live coverage now focuses more time on mid-table. Its not just about dominance on winning championship alone, the car is so good that its on another planet. TBH, havent watched a live race in last few seasons and only catch highlights or final standings.
 
Ayush_reddevil said:
Silly examples to give considering those sports are nothing like formula one
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To be fair, he's responding to the ridiculously hyperbolic comment about how this is a contender for the worst season of any sport. Obviously the question is daft, but that dude did ask, so...
 
To fuel the Sainz rumours, Estrella will be ending their sponsorship at Ferrari at the end of this season. Estrella have tended to move teams when Sainz moves teams.
 
Buster15 said:
Yes definitely. I was absolutely livid at what happened in 2021 when he was robbed by a foolish person who quite rightly was sacked for it. So I remain positive that he will get his 8th.
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Lets hope so. I think he would walk away from the sport after no8. Like he would have done at the end of 2021.
 
Darkhorsez said:
So let me try then. Tiger Woods had the same equipment than other players. At his peak dominance, he did not win every tournament he started. Max‘s car is so superior that it is like having a driver that goes 450 yards.
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Several people to respond to so I'll just take yours as one who is pointing out that they had same equipment etc. Dominance in almost every sport has been rife with potential controversy, whether it's assembling the largest group of stars in a team beyond anyone's grasp (Patriots, Bulls, Real, Man City, etc), doping and steroids (which was very common in the 90s and before...hi track and field, cycling, boxing etc), nutritional tricks, or tech gimmicks (i.e. swimsuits to improve wake, custom developed golf clubs, etc). Formula 1 is no strange to that over the decades of course. To say any of the other sports were simply down to the athletes alone having the same tools, whether material or support personnel wise, is terribly naive.
 
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Redplane said:
So what you're saying is RB is the Man United of F1?
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Surely Ferrari is the Man United of F1. Big name, big budget and small brains.

goalscholes said:
RB set up their car around Max, who uses a very pointy front end which most drivers can’t deal with.

But you’re ignoring the fact that Perez is 33. It’s natural that he’s getting worse, especially in such an aggressive car.
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I don't think it's a given that drivers decline at that age. Alonso has been brilliant this season.
 
ArjenIsM3 said:
Thought Sainz was in the wrong. There was plenty of space untill Sainz locked up under braking and then suddenly shut the door as if Piastri wasn't there. Piastri had nowhere to go after that.
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Yeah, I was surprised there wasn't a penalty for Sainz. Then again, the way Ferrari made him drive a damaged car for more than half of the race felt like a punishment in itself.
 
Redplane said:
Several people to respond to so I'll just take yours as one who is pointing out that they had same equipment etc. Dominance in almost every sport has been rife with potential controversy, whether it's assembling the largest group of stars in a team beyond anyone's grasp (Patriots, Bulls, Real, Man City, etc), doping and steroids (which was very common in the 90s and before...hi track and field, cycling, boxing etc), nutritional tricks, or tech gimmicks (i.e. swimsuits to improve wake, custom developed golf clubs, etc). Formula 1 is no strange to that over the decades of course. To say any of the other sports were simply down to the athletes alone having the same tools, whether material or support personnel wise, is terribly naive.
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My word.
 
ArjenIsM3 said:
Thought Sainz was in the wrong. There was plenty of space untill Sainz locked up under braking and then suddenly shut the door as if Piastri wasn't there. Piastri had nowhere to go after that.
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Sainz has to turn at some point. Poor racing craft and lack of experience from Piastri for me, you don't go sticking your nose in there.
 
Gringo said:
Sainz has to turn at some point. Poor racing craft and lack of experience from Piastri for me, you don't go sticking your nose in there.
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It was naive and he could have reacted faster but if Sainz doesnt miss the braking point and lock up it doesnt happen.
 
hobbers said:
It was naive and he could have reacted faster but if Sainz doesnt miss the braking point and lock up it doesnt happen.
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Which makes it a racing incident I guess but I don't like the way Sainz has been moaning about it completely shifting the blame on Piastri.
 
ArjenIsM3 said:
Which makes it a racing incident I guess but I don't like the way Sainz has been moaning about it completely shifting the blame on Piastri.
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Yeah and Piastri could easily have whined about it and yet didnt even blame Carlos in an interview afterwards. Cool as a cucumber.

And that's why Piastri could win a world title and Carlos will never get anywhere near.
 
hobbers said:
Yeah and Piastri could easily have whined about it and yet didnt even blame Carlos in an interview afterwards. Cool as a cucumber.

And that's why Piastri could win a world title and Carlos will never get anywhere near.
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I like him more and more with each race. I hope he finally gets a podium after the break. He has been rather unlucky.
 
Tyrion said:
I don't think it's a given that drivers decline at that age. Alonso has been brilliant this season.
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Not all drivers get worse, but most do.

World class drivers who can adapt their style will naturally last longer.
 
The Firestarter said:
Pretty mind boggling they are still plagued by an issue for two years. Maybe Newey drops them a hint out of compassion? But without Horner knowing.
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Something is wrong at Mercedes. I've been thinking this since 2021. They've lost a lot of key people, standards have slipped and complacency creeped in a long time ago.

Red Bull on the other hand are a well oiled machine that I don't feel will let up as long as the likes of Newey and Horner are there.
 
The Firestarter said:
Pretty mind boggling they are still plagued by an issue for two years. Maybe Newey drops them a hint out of compassion? But without Horner knowing.
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New floor upgrade, apparently. They know the rear suspension needs to be changed design wise, but cant be done this season due to cost cap.
 
hobbers said:
If anyone wanted to know how badly mclaren got the setup.

Absolutely gobbled up. Piastri and Norris were never ever finishing in the points today without rain. Zero chance.
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They don’t have a low drag rear wing available as they’ve been prioritising other updates.
 
dinostar77 said:
New floor upgrade, apparently. They know the rear suspension needs to be changed design wise, but cant be done this season due to cost cap.
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RB car was based on the best design principles, but they also identified the multi year advantages of breaking the rules. A seasons worth of winning and data is worth a fine and losing some wind tunnel testing.

Mercedes should also have ignored the rules and changed the chassis mid season. At least they’d be getting valuable data on whether their upgrade direction is going to work with the new design.
 
goalscholes said:
RB car was based on the best design principles, but they also identified the multi year advantages of breaking the rules. A seasons worth of winning and data is worth a fine and losing some wind tunnel testing.

Mercedes should also have ignored the rules and changed the chassis mid season. At least they’d be getting valuable data on whether their upgrade direction is going to work with the new design.
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You do realise the year they broke the rules was the last year of the old cars and it was only by 1.6% of the €145 million cost cap and they even showed how bad there were with accounting by not applying a tax credit which would of reduced it to .37% breach, a brand new mid season floor and suspension set up would be a massive breach as that would cost millions to produce.
 
christy87 said:
You do realise the year they broke the rules was the last year of the old cars and it was only by 1.6% of the €145 million cost cap and they even showed how bad there were with accounting by not applying a tax credit which would of reduced it to .37% breach, a brand new mid season floor and suspension set up would be a massive breach as that would cost millions to produce.
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red bull are the reason the nhs is failing.
 
Buster15 said:
Yes definitely. I was absolutely livid at what happened in 2021 when he was robbed by a foolish person who quite rightly was sacked for it. So I remain positive that he will get his 8th.
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Unfortunately he's gonna have to hang around until 2026 at least for that to happen - Red Bull are so far ahead that no team is catching them. It would be great for the competition if the FIA make a mini rule change to clip their wings (a bit like they did with the Merc in 2021 which led to the last race robbery), but the president has already ruled that out.
 
Why cant any team catch them ? We've seen in quali one lap pace is very close now.
 
christy87 said:
You do realise the year they broke the rules was the last year of the old cars and it was only by 1.6% of the €145 million cost cap and they even showed how bad there were with accounting by not applying a tax credit which would of reduced it to .37% breach, a brand new mid season floor and suspension set up would be a massive breach as that would cost millions to produce.
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You do realise £400k is enough to build and test 14 new floors and 28 rear wings over at Mercedes


Gringo said:
Why cant any team catch them ? We've seen in quali one lap pace is very close now.
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Dont think any team will be catching them for degradation any time soon. Quali will always be closer because they just dont care at all about maximising qualifying pace if it means sub optimal race set up. Completely the opposite of 2021 and earlier.

Singapore and Brazil will be anyone's game though this season. Zandvoort also wont play to RB's strengths and could be a chance for a surprise upset.
 
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hobbers said:
You do realise £400k is enough to build and test 14 new floors and 28 rear wings over at Mercedes




Dont think any team will be catching them for degradation any time soon. Quali will always be closer because they just dont care at all about maximising qualifying pace if it means sub optimal race set up. Completely the opposite of 2021 and earlier.

Singapore and Brazil will be anyone's game though this season. Zandvoort also wont play to RB's strengths and could be a chance for a surprise upset.
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Or as I now call it 2/3 of a Henderson week

Gringo said:
Why cant any team catch them ? We've seen in quali one lap pace is very close now.
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Max beat second by .8 of a second to get quali this week, it’s the best all round car since the merc and his pit wall is just as ruthless as he is, Mercs during there 7 years weren’t they had a head banging mistake in them.
 
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