Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
I don't think they all come from the same side, really.
just spotted the white text.Agreed though. Ominous parallels to the past emerging in Europe
That's what negotiations are for.
Hamas has zero capacity to prevent Israel from existing, it's a non-starter.
No, events at the wailing wall and Al-Aqsa mosque were not the origin of hatred between the two.
Palestinians did not have their own state. Most modern countries also did not have their own state. What is your point with this? That they should therefore never have a real state?
The UN resolution was heavily pushed by the USA, who bullied multiple countries into voting yes after the zionists at the time managed to filibuster the original vote when it looked like it would not pass. Which is fine, that's how international diplomacy works.
The Palestinians didnt accept the solution because, just like probably almost all peoples would, they didn't appreciate an exogenous settler group coming to settle a land they called their own, dictated almost exclusively by a bunch of white men in Europe and North America. I don't think any peoples who considered themselves living on that land would have openly accepted mass migration onto that land, by a group who's explicit intention was to set up a state there.
Still, they rejected it, lost and now here we are.
For someone who reports that they don't have much background in the conflict, you do certainly seem to parrot one side's talking points quite a lot.
Oh right, you guys are talking about Hitler. I totally wasn't thinking of the Ottomans
So from river to the sea is genocidal when randoms at a London March are saying it.
Out of interest, how would you describe it when actual members of the Israeli Government are saying it? Not genocidal considering your earlier posts on here?
I don't think it's against the rules to say that the killed civilians in Gaza weren't innocent.
Well, let him report him and if the mods consider that he does not meet the required quality, let them act accordingly, but he does not have to go around calling anyone a racist, ignorant or troll.
Agreed though. Ominous parallels to the past emerging in Europe
If you and @Carolina Red think this is caused by Austrians be assured it isn't. I know both of you were tongue in cheek but just to be sure.
Lack of integration has led to foreign conflicts being brought into our country.
I wanted to check to see if you had a point and it seems that you don't, they used the term ignorant once when they said that a poster should not make statements on a topic they are ignorant about which was an accurate descritpion of the claim that current gazans voted for Hamas. They used the word racist once in a way that I don't believe is appropriate but was only done once. And then there is troll which also seems appropriate when the same poster since Friday keeps claiming that 57% of gazans voted for Hamas in spite of being corrected multiple times on the 2006 elections and also multiple times on the 2023 poll that they purposely misrepresenting.
Seems true going by the testimonies of ex IDF conscripts, quite a few never realised how subjugated the palestinians were until they had to go those areas on patrol.
I definitely don’t believe it was caused by Austrians.
You have been a valuable poster on this thread and I've enjoyed reading your posts even if disagreeing.
I have to say though Hamas have to be part of discussions and history tells us they were not the ones anti peace no matter how much we can slate them for 7 October.
Fyi I'm Muslim and I have no love whatsoever for Hamas. Or the PLO for that matter. However it is proven (for me) time and again that it's always Israel that is the barrier to peace and 2 state solution etc. In fact the softening of the stance of the previous regimes is why Israel helped install Hamas.
It's interesting reading the memoirs of former USA presidents, who when in power pretty much backed Israel but later "the truth" was revealed as something else.
So for example how many people knew that 41 of 43 Hamas politicians were locked up by Israel at one stage. But they still bombed to "get rid of Hamas"?
How many people have read Jimmy Carter's statements of Hamas were willing to deal but talking to Netanyahu was a waste of space?
How many people have read that the river to the sea was initiated by Ben Gurion but later adopted by Likud?
How many have read the quotes of key Israeli politicians, since the 20's, saying they will get what is offered for now and take over after?
I think it's safe to say Israel are the ones who will never want a 2 state solution and see the Arabs (Christian and Muslim) as second class.
I think it’s fairly obvious that I was engaging in some low brow historical humor there. I have no idea what’s actually going on inside Austria at present.
WSJ also going for the failed rocket hypothesis: https://www.wsj.com/video/video-ana...1C22-BA32-418E-8837-BC4141FEFB00.html?mod=mhp
I think that it wasn't the goal but an austrian blaming foreigners for their issues is not the most convincing argument.
I don't understand your post. I wrote a generic post as advice to @Iker Quesadillas. I'm not talking specifically about any post or any specific user.
fecks sake, absolutely awful.
Ok mate
if you read who they were aimed at. They were the two people who were making up stuff as they went along and have been called out alot on this thread the past two days. To the degree that its derailed the thread with people responding and correctung their false comments and accusations hence trollish behaviour.
That's a fair point and you may be right, but many are angry, many are scared, many are grieving and many are just sick and tired of it all. Then you have the hardliners that just want Palestine wiped off the face of the planet. The general feeling I have from speaking to two of my Jewish mates who live in London and who have spoken to family in Israel is many in Israel are a bit dismayed at what they feel is a disproportionate response by the general public that are protesting around the world. It's almost like they are wondering why fewer people are siding with them.
They both said they tried to get over the point to their families that from their point of view, it's more people are just sick of innocent people dying and that it's just small pockets of people that are actually protesting in support of Hamas or against Israel and the Jews and vice versa. Apparently that's not being shown, rather it's all just pro Palestinian or anti Israel rallies being reported and it's only really foreign leaders and the USA that seems to be taking their side. Again, that's the battle, it's not about taking sides for many, well it is. The sides of innocent people and people around the world wanting it all to stop from both sides and hoping for world leaders to help find a peaceful solution.
I'm off to London on Friday for the weekend and was hoping to meet up with them for a beer. I'm taking the kids to Comic-Con on Saturday and Attenborough's Earth Exhibition on Sunday. I asked them how badly the protests are affecting travel or if they are anything to worry about but both are working in Dubai and have been for three weeks so they couldn't say. I know a few here have attended the protests or live in London so any info would be great. I'm thinking maybe the bus would be a better option than the tube as I want to leave my car at the hotel as driving in the city is a nightmare at the best of times. I'm only worried because my daughter is only 10 and I fear if as expected, Israel step up their assault this week then then protests could grow exponentially and possibly become hostile or even turn in to riots.
I feel awful posting that last paragraph in this thread considering what others are going through. First world problems 101. However, I didn't want to start a new thread and didn't know where else to ask. Maybe people could PM me rather than taking the thread off topic?
That's how he knows it's genocidal, because that's what Israeli politicians mean when they say it. I'm (mostly) joking. e: about him knowing it, not what Israeli politicians mean by it.
Feeling sick at just the thought
The tube should be fine and you and your daughter will be fine. Our government has basically criminalised all protest, and all protests need to give the police notice and have to stick to defined areas. If even a big protest is taking place in Trafalgar Square, you could be by Buckingham Palace less than a mile away and not be affected (you will hear it though). You will be able to check in advance what protests (if any) are planned. London is also a big city so that is also something to be considered - protests will not close the city.
Religious, cultural, national, linguistic etc.
I live in NI so have an experience of such a dynamic but it's mere child's play by comparison.
It's horrific but required. And you just know the usual ghouls will still be nitpicking details, casting doubts, suggesting it's been acted and framing it all as a zionist conspiracy.
And you think that it doesn't apply to a lot of current countries that are today internally at peace?
These people who deny the slaughtering of Israelis by Hamas, doubt they will be swayed by some reporter writing a review of a video they saw.
Who are the usual suspects?
I think that it wasn't the goal but an austrian blaming foreigners for their issues is not the most convincing argument.
What? Mate if you read my posts properly before trying to be clever you'll see that I blamed our politicians that for longest time didn't care about integration at all. Merely explaining a Tweet about an Israeli flag which was torn down
Yeah I realise that. I mean not that these Hitler references have ever been funny but I know you weren't serious.
Do you have access to the Internet?
Just because it can't do it doesn't mean it'll stop trying, or atleast enjoy the death and carnage it can cause.
I believe that people who think we can negotiate with Hamas - especially now - are not really connected to whats going on in Israel right now. It's a non starter.
the same people who think Israel bombed the hospital and believe everything Hamas tell them
I apologize, it was a silly joke.
It's alright man. This isn't even worth talking about too much considering the atrocities happening in Gaza so I'll move on. Just wanted to show that some take it as an opportunity to riot a bit.