You're a few light-years off the mark.
And no it's not. Those who know don't need it and you won't change the opinion of those who don't want to be convinced.
Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
And no it's not. Those who know don't need it and you won't change the opinion of those who don't want to be convinced.
This matters though. Maybe not on here but then what exactly can we do from a forum? Are the endless dodgy tweets helping anyone? No, probably causing more problems if anything (less of them now though, more discussion as requested by the mods).
It matters when it comes to Israel and Palestine finding peace. The point of no return has not been reached and genocide is that point. There's no coming back from it, no possibility of peace after that. So if you think we have reached that point, then it's over as far as there ever being coexistence. Thankfully the people who will ultimately make that distinction don't think we have crossed the line so there's still hope.
There's also the fact that misusing a word dilutes it's meaning. There's a reason genocide isn't something levied at groups very often, why until 1944 it wasn't even a word despite there having been many historical examples of mass slaughter.
Anyway, I'll leave it there.
Why are you being a proxy for what appears to be thinly veiled bigotry from an Israeli newbie(I'm guessing this is the same guy PMing the other poster)?
No need to assume that the poster is Israeli, or Jewish.
Those questions could easily have been asked by Geert Wilders or Marine Le Pen.
All I would say is if the video or picture involves a dead body, could you spoiler it? It may be triggering for some (in the sense of triggering trauma, rather than triggering reflection).
Obviously we would need to wait for confirmation, if it ever comes, but are these 5000 part of the overall death tolls reported by Hamas?
If true and part of the reported deaths it does slightly change the perception, though before anyone jumps, does not in anyway reduce the pain and suffering of innocent Palestinians whatsoever. Just in terms of optics and the "aims" of Israel.
But how do you even know if someone is Hamas. Besides them hiding amongst civilians, they basically are civilians. They're not in camo, half the time they'll be with family, with groups of the public blending in.
Also, do Hamas actually announce Hamas deaths? As in separate to not combative deaths?
I am not assuming out of the blue, there was a newbie PMing @Dirty Schwein asking for his posts to be put in this thread who is Israeli, the post I responded to read very similarly to one of his. Anyway, this whole posting newbies messages is unnecessary.
Guessing Newbie is past tense and not because of promotion.
Yeah It definitely seems like the same person. He is a newbie Israeli.
The FT article doesn't go deeper into it unfortunately.
Don't shoot the messenger, either reply to the questions or ignore the post altogether.
Follow the guidelines. Do not post pictures of dead people and don't be so abrasive towards other users. You insist in not following the guidelines of the thread. The mods have been lenient with you but you keep pushing the boundaries. Plenty of people have been complaining here and in the scout thread about your behavior. Respect the guidelines please.
Well said. I'd argue that it's very important to distinguish whether we are talking about what's happening currently from a legal or a moral/ethical perspective. Words like "genocide" or "war crime" have a very specific meaning in international law, which not always matches how these terms are used in everyday language.
I am currently taking a class in University on the law of armed conflict, so we talk a lot about things like Targeting Law and things like that. The big take-away for me so far has been that it seems pretty much impossible to tell whether war crimes (in a legal sense) are being committed in an ongoing conflict. You'd need access to a lot intelligence/classified information in order to properly determine the military importance of an object.
Now, this obviously does not mean that someone cannot find it morally reprehensible to target a hospital. But such an attack does not necessarily have to be in conflict with international law.
I think we could avoid a lot confusion and talking past one another in this thread and in society in general if people make it clear from what position they are arguing and using the correct terminology.
The forum has a newbie section for a reason, we don't need even more shite dog whistles being posted in here than what the full members can currently provide.
The answer is probably not to look at Europe for advice. Europe does things without planning, panics, swings right, panics, swings left, panics, swings right and so on.
Doesn't need to be the EU, the whole continent is the same. Just look at recent voting patterns. Driven by a combination of guilt for the past and the very same superiority that lead to the whole taking over everything. It's a uniquely European thing.
Senior Fellow at the Atlantic Council
Don't post for a cretin like that. There's obviously a very good reason he's a newbie. You should know better than to perpetuate the great replacement theory.
They obviously were, it's insane the lengths that some people will go to justify Israel's actions.
In previous rounds of conflict in Gaza, Hamas have released online tributes to their martyrs in the weeks following the end of hostilities.
Here is an absolutely masterful takedown of some of Israel's favourite talking points by Norman Finkelstein. Well worth a watch. Apologies if someone has already posted this in this absolute beast of a thread.
He's on Piers Morgan tonight. I wonder if Piers will let him talk for more than 15 seconds without interrupting.
I expected the article to not mention that palestinians are mainly judged by military courts but it is mentioned. People tend to miss or ignore that, palestinians are largely ruled by IDF.
Never thought I’d see Norman referencing Susan Boyle
It changes nothing.
Cute maths that. Anyone not a woman or child is a Hamas fighter
These are questions not worth answering, its borderline trolling.
I do see your point mate. I would contend that is a remarkably high bar in the age of internet. What news is coming out is mostly through peoples phones - there was a post from John Hopkins showing the collapse in IP connectivity over the last few weeks. Think the alarm bells on an impending genocide by the UN, amnesty and MSF are well merited
That wasn't a dig at you because I've enjoyed and agreed with your posts throughout (so apologies as reading it back it is brash), but I'd say to be so dismissive of the human element and suffering can only mean you're ignorant or in denial (the royal you). You're obviously not ignorant. On your latter point... This thread is 571 pages long, with the same churn of arguments. We're week 6? 7? of this current round of hostilities, and the same will just recirculate. No one participating here is changing their mind, agree on that.
But this thread is being viewed by many more that aren't au fait with Palestine, that aren't aware of the history, or the injustice, where a grieving father is enough to prompt someone to read up and educate themselves. In fact, it's what worked on me many years ago. This conflict I've followed for most of my adult life and if I can make even a 1% difference then I'm happy with that.
The rules say don't post gratuitous - the video isn't gratuitous at all.
What boundaries have I pushed? What are they complaining about? We had @gfactor86 literally replying to posters with 'feck you' and saying Palestine isn't a real place. What are you doing about that?
Douglas Murray: lies lies lies
Piers: "Would you debate Norman Finkelstein?"
Murray: "God no, are you crazy?!?!?"
Piers: "Would you debate Norman Finkelstein?"
Murray: "God no, are you crazy?!?!?"
"Raping, plundering, and enslave the population were fairly common, ask any population in the world, at some point they came "war crimes" and a cardinal sin. when? why?"
Is called progress, turd
Quite a charge questions. I am not Muslim but I'll bite anyway:
1) Irrelevant. Israel is there and will stay. A most appropriate and possible question is if Palestine has the right to exist, and the Israel government, voted by a majority of israelians seems to say, no
2) Irrelevant. Whataboutism of the biggest of the magnitud. If muslims in the forum say no, it will had nothing to do with the Israel-Palestine discussion. If muslims in the forum say yes, it will had nothing to do with the Israel discussion and would only be used as an entrance disingenuous point. Not to speak that the majority of muslim majority population countries do not follow the sharia law in its strict form. Why europe reaching this point should be in the minority?
Tell that newbie to feck off. Honestly, the first point is redundant. Reminds me of the whole "corporation's are people" crap from the Tea Party.
Just a dumb, closed loop statement solely designed to warrant and allow Israel's crimes to stay unjudged.
The second is a scare tactic that Tommy Robinson would be proud off.
That made me laugh. He got a warning and some points for that post.