Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

That's a hell of a lot of people. Hopefully they have the resources (weapons) to actually make a difference.

And hopefully, NATO steps up, and gives Ukraine what it needs, instead of just enough for them to hold on.

I doubt that they will though, NATO's objective isn't really the same as Ukraine's objective.
 
Ukraine’s Front-Line Troops Are Getting Older: ‘Physically, I Can’t Handle This’

Tired fighters note bitterly that when they go on leave in big cities such as Kyiv or Dnipro, they see able-bodied men in their 20s and 30s frequenting gyms, bars and hip restaurants.

“We don’t have full-on mobilization” of society, said a drone operator with the Ukrainian Navy’s special forces, known by his call sign Dobro. “But it’s a necessity. We can’t do without it.”
https://www.wsj.com/world/ukraines-...hysically-i-cant-handle-this-46d9b2c7?mod=mhp
 
Aside from the political problem posed by mobilising the Kyiv/Dnipro/Lviv middle class who don't want to fight, those "able-bodied men in their 20s and 30s frequenting gyms, bars and hip restaurants" are the people who are just about holding what's left of the Ukrainian economy together. To be crude, they're the men who Ukraine can't afford to see killed en masse while their economic situation is as fraught as it is and millions of young Ukrainian men are still in Europe with no intention of returning. The EU and the US are squabbling about the money they already provide to Ukraine. Total mobilisation would require many more times the amount of economic aid they're already providing only to keep the economy afloat, let alone to train and arm another half a million soldiers. As Zelenskiy said in his press conference yesterday, it's the most politically difficult question he's faced. It's not as simple as "Ukraine needs total mobilisation and the West needs to pay whatever it costs". He's got several very complex interests to balance at once. Western leaders are trying to move away from the narrative that Ukraine is fighting for global freedom (it's hard to keep pushing that angle when at the same time you're making Zelenskiy come over to Washington to literally beg on camera for the financial and military ability to, as Biden used to put it, "defend America's own national security") and shift it back to Ukraine alone, i.e "Ukraine is fighting for its very existence" (John Kirby yesterday, the first press conference in a long time he hasn't gone with the sky-will-fall "Ukraine is defending Western democracy" narrative). Another thing that was clear from Zelenskiy's press conference yesterday is that both Zelenskiy and Putin are laser-focussed on their goals, but the West is not. The West has no clear aim for this war. They don't even know if they want Ukraine to win it. Before mobilising half a million more men who don't want to fight (or else they'd already have volunteered), and the enormous political pressure he will receive if he does that, Zelenskiy will need an absolutely iron-clad guarantee from the West that the economic and military aid will not stop, in fact will be massively ramped up, at least from now until November 2024. So far he's not getting that guarantee, in fact all the signals he's receiving point the other way.
 
He's got a point. Despite the gloom and doom of the counteroffensive stalling and money potentially running out, the price Russia has had to pay appears far steeper in terms of people, weapons, and economic impact.

It really annoys me tbh. The endless barrage of western media doomsayers critisizing the Ukrainian efforts, lapping up every bit of propaganda, despite the incredible achievements they have made and continue to make.

Failed counter-offensive??? The very fact Ukraine put Russia on the defensive in the first place with their "endless" personnel and equipment is all we really need to know. Its never not be hilarious how badly Putin has failed.
 
And nothing will pass in January either, thats my prediction, republicans simply don't want to give Ukraine any aid.

Na man, republicans love killing Ruskis. Lindsey Grampa said it is best money US ever spent.
 
Wouldn’t be surprised to learn there’s some degree of Russian involvement in his candidacy. Putin tried with Tara Reid last time, and is massively incentivized to try again.

Right, cuz everyone who’s against funding the war in Ukraine must be a Putin puppet, even if their father happened to be Bobby Kennedy and their uncle was JFK.
 
Na man, republicans love killing Ruskis. Lindsey Grampa said it is best money US ever spent.

Lindsey and Mitch are a dying breed, MAGA-republicans dont feel the same way.
 
It's going to come and bite EU, cause Russia doesn't stop with Ukraine, they want a bigger piece of Europe than that.

At some point, there will be direct confrontation between Russia and NATO.

Based on what exactly? Putin has been in power for 20+ years, they would have attacked Europe a hundred times by now if your assertion is even remotely accurate.
 
Based on what exactly? Putin has been in power for 20+ years, they would have attacked Europe a hundred times by now if your assertion is even remotely accurate.

Based on the full-scale invasion of Ukraine?

Putin is getting close to the end of his time as leader/dictator, he doesnt care what happens next, he just want to be known for bringing back the Russian Empire.
 
There is always Nikki. She is ready to take it on China, Russia and Iran. Come on man, have some confidence.

Yeah, but Trump will be the nominee anyway, unless disqualified somehow, pretty low chance of that happening.
 
An emboldened Russia could well be tempted into taking a piece of the Baltics, you think NATO, with its lack of comittment to Ukraine, would risk open war, possibly nuclear, over one of its smaller/lesser members? I'm not so sure they would.

At the minimum, they would take Moldova, and start trying to cause instability in Romania in some way.

Yes, 100%
 
Right, cuz everyone who’s against funding the war in Ukraine must be a Putin puppet, even if their father happened to be Bobby Kennedy and their uncle was JFK.

We've just been through a Presidential campaign with a full on Russian attempt to manipulate the outcome of the US election, so it shouldn't surprise anyone that Putin will continue trying. Even if Kennedy is not involved, his position on COVID and vaccines disqualifies him on being taken seriously on anything outside of his main focus of environmental issues.

Further, anyone who wants to cut off Ukraine funding is tacitly helping Putin, so I'll let you draw your own conclusions as to why.
 
Based on what exactly? Putin has been in power for 20+ years, they would have attacked Europe a hundred times by now if your assertion is even remotely accurate.

He needs to go through Ukraine first.
 
He needs to go through Ukraine first.

Theoretically, someone with ambitions for a bigger piece of Europe wouldn’t have waited 20+ years to act on those ambitions. Just saying.

Putin bad and all that, but let’s not feed on the domino theory just yet
 
We've just been through a Presidential campaign with a full on Russian attempt to manipulate the outcome of the US election, so it shouldn't surprise anyone that Putin will continue trying. Even if Kennedy is not involved, his position on COVID and vaccines disqualifies him on being taken seriously on anything outside of his main focus of environmental issues.

Further, anyone who wants to cut off Ukraine funding is tacitly helping Putin, so I'll let you draw your own conclusions as to why.

I hear Soc Security and Medicare are projected to be insolvent in less than a decade - perhaps an end to the perpetual war machine and US playing international cop might not be such a terrible idea?

As for your other point, every country - ours included - tries to influence elections and governments of other countries, that’s not particularly newsworthy. Didn’t we overthrow the Ukrainian government in 2014 which made Mr. Putin very angry?
 
I hear Soc Security and Medicare are projected to be insolvent in less than a decade - perhaps an end to the perpetual war machine and US playing international cop might not be such a terrible idea?

As for your other point, every country - ours included - tries to influence elections and governments of other countries, that’s not particularly newsworthy. Didn’t we overthrow the Ukrainian government in 2014 which made Mr. Putin very angry?

History has shown that the US retreating into isolationism does not end well for Europe, and eventually comes back to impact the US.
 
I hear Soc Security and Medicare are projected to be insolvent in less than a decade - perhaps an end to the perpetual war machine and US playing international cop might not be such a terrible idea?

As for your other point, every country - ours included - tries to influence elections and governments of other countries, that’s not particularly newsworthy. Didn’t we overthrow the Ukrainian government in 2014 which made Mr. Putin very angry?

That was a democratic process. :) And media “consolidation” was a democratic process. Forcefully banning Russian language in Donbas region was also democratic. Attack against Ukrainian Orthodox Church was also democracy in action. Democracy is attacked and it should be defended !
 
Theoretically, someone with ambitions for a bigger piece of Europe wouldn’t have waited 20+ years to act on those ambitions. Just saying.

Putin bad and all that, but let’s not feed on the domino theory just yet

He wasn't in a position to do it in the 2000s as Russia was still reeling from the 90s. The moment he got in position to strike, he did. And people rather naively question why NATO is still around when authoritarian Russia and the infrastructure of nukes and expansionism never went away.
 
I hear Soc Security and Medicare are projected to be insolvent in less than a decade - perhaps an end to the perpetual war machine and US playing international cop might not be such a terrible idea?

Consider the ramifications if the US has to put boots on the ground in Europe. Funding Ukraine is therefore one of the greatest investments in the history of the United States - not a drop of US blood spilled to fight a totalitarian adversary.

As for your other point, every country - ours included - tries to influence elections and governments of other countries, that’s not particularly newsworthy. Didn’t we overthrow the Ukrainian government in 2014 which made Mr. Putin very angry?

You're conflating promoting democracy and human rights in dictatorships with Putin attempting to invade and steal the land of a neighboring country.
 
Based on what exactly? Putin has been in power for 20+ years, they would have attacked Europe a hundred times by now if your assertion is even remotely accurate.
Based on Putin, we want's the old Soviet Union back
 
Putin has been busy conducting asymmetric operations against Europe for a long time, including assassinating and attempting to assassinate British citizens.

Russian interference from 2004-17

RussiaMap.gif
 
I think republicans will grant the aid eventually, they must be under massive pressure from the US arms industry lobby to keep the money, and the bribes, flowing. They won't do the right thing because it's the right thing but because they profit from it.
 
I hear Soc Security and Medicare are projected to be insolvent in less than a decade - perhaps an end to the perpetual war machine and US playing international cop might not be such a terrible idea?

As for your other point, every country - ours included - tries to influence elections and governments of other countries, that’s not particularly newsworthy. Didn’t we overthrow the Ukrainian government in 2014 which made Mr. Putin very angry?

:)

Putin tried to assassinate by poisoning the guy running against his candidate the first time, so there is influencing elections and influencing elections.

He also funded bribed and then pushed into going against Ukraine's population's will, to the point they threw him out is other way of saying "we" overthrew him.

Putin started this whole shit show by making the biggest mistake of his life and he has been doubling down on it ever since.
 
Russian interference from 2004-17

RussiaMap.gif
You see how those blue countries are so close to Russia? That’s a provocation. No wonder Russia is striking back.

I sometimes wonder how long it will take to get a clear picture of how big Russias influence on the rise of the far right and so on has been. The more I read, the more I feel that what they did through the last decades, has caused or at least furthered a political development that will continue to cause problems in many years to come. The damage done by Russia must be enormous.
 
You see how those blue countries are so close to Russia? That’s a provocation. No wonder Russia is striking back.

I sometimes wonder how long it will take to get a clear picture of how big Russias influence on the rise of the far right and so on has been. The more I read, the more I feel that what they did through the last decades, has caused or at least furthered a political development that will continue to cause problems in many years to come. The damage done by Russia must be enormous.
They're doing what the western powers have been doing for centuries and still do. You only have to take a map and see the long list of the worldwide western (and russian) meddlings since the end of WWII to have a small taste. Really not condoning it, but let's not give into this faux outrage or pretend to be any better. You just don't like to be on the receiving end, which is perfectly understandable.
 
They're doing what the western powers have been doing for centuries and still do. You only have to take a map and see the long list of the worldwide western (and russian) meddlings since the end of WWII to have a small taste. Really not condoning it, but let's not give into this faux outrage or pretend to be any better. You just don't like to be on the receiving end, which is perfectly understandable.
Thanks. I was completely unaware of any global history.
 
Theoretically, someone with ambitions for a bigger piece of Europe wouldn’t have waited 20+ years to act on those ambitions. Just saying.

Putin bad and all that, but let’s not feed on the domino theory just yet
To be fair we had russian officials saying moldova might be next.
 
Theoretically, someone with ambitions for a bigger piece of Europe wouldn’t have waited 20+ years to act on those ambitions. Just saying.

Putin bad and all that, but let’s not feed on the domino theory just yet

That sounds astonishingly close to what they said about Hitler in the 30’s.

 
:)

Putin tried to assassinate by poisoning the guy running against his candidate the first time, so there is influencing elections and influencing elections.

He also funded bribed and then pushed into going against Ukraine's population's will, to the point they threw him out is other way of saying "we" overthrew him.

Putin started this whole shit show by making the biggest mistake of his life and he has been doubling down on it ever since.

There are influences and there are straight coup d'état like in chile and argentina among others. So please, spare me on the level of influences on elections and governments from the US. US is the country that assassinated other countries leaders and provoked more coups and wars in the XXth and XXIst for regime change by far