Onana has not worked out. We need a new keeper.
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Ignoring the fact he has played 9 more games than Allison I see?
Onana is 6th in clean sheets, having played every game, and 15th in percentage of clean sheets, how good is that?
Well you have watched Onana single handedly throw us out of the CL group stages and somehow still think DDG was as bad last season. My eyes are fine, I think yours are okey too, just your biased opinion and obviously not accepting the reality of how bad Onana actually has been for the club. All you can hang on is, stats stats stats, like a blind man to a walking stick.
And yeah Murtough's data driven approach has brought wonders to our recruitment department doesn't it? And yeah data is used and will always be used, but even in the scouts ever evolving nature and roles, they still hold the final say and obviously having the good ones makes the difference to being a top club and a club run by amateurs like Manchester United has been in the last years. Even ETH seems absolutely deluded and using "we only have 4 defeats this calendar year" "or the data is this or that" when we absolutely look as one of the worst coached sides in the league. Wake up and smell the shit, Onana has been absolutely woeful and probably the worst GK we have had since Roy Carroll.
So, basically what you are saying is that we are all blind, our eyes lie and Onana is really good.
How is what we actually see a biased lens.
I get the impression that you don't know how data and stats work, where is the benchmark for his performance this season, you cannot base it on last season, because he wasn't in the Prem, so the data is flawed.
You cannot base it on his data at Inter, because it is incomplete, only 24 games played last season.
I would agree with you if;
He wasn't making the same cockups he was at inter
He wasn't making the same cockups he was at Ajax
He wasn't making the same cockups he was at International level
He has the same defence in front of him that De Gea had last season, and he's only got 8 clean sheets against De Gea's 17
Or perhaps you've forgotten we tried to sell off Maguire because he was so bad last season, Varanne spent a lot of time injured, Martinez was out for periods, why do you think we signed Evans in the summer?
We don't have the luxury of going for a new keeper. We aren't going to make 20 new signings in the summer and we don't even have the funds to fix all our most desperate positions. We need a rb, 2 cbs, lb, 2 dms and a striker far more urgently.
I said the same last season, despite everyone else screaming to get rid of De Gea and replace him.
I said the same last season, despite everyone else screaming to get rid of De Gea and replace him.
He's in a similar position to De Gea before David started making consistent errors where there are more pressing needs to the team with a constrained budget.
I prefer shot stoppers as a main attribute with a goalkeeper and the ability to play out from the back as a secondary component.
I prefer shot stoppers as a main attribute with a goalkeeper and the ability to play out from the back as a secondary component.
Or we need to stop conceding 30 shots per game
It's a tough choice really, on one hand we have data from opta used by the league and clubs, which is essential for informed decision making, and on the other we have the eyes of an overtly biased dinosaur who refuses any evidence that doesn't support their opinion.
Why are people still making this claim when its simply not true?
Because people love hyperbole
So basically what you are saying is "insert strawman here".
If you want to dispute an argument you made up, you can do that without quoting me, hell you don't even need to be on a forum.
We can quite happily compare goals prevented based on xGOT across different goalkeepers playing in different seasons, as it's based on the quality of shots faced that were on target. It isn't a perfect measurement, that doesn't exist, but it is a good one. Suffice to say I get the same impression about you.
The fact is there was a lot more too it than just Onana making mistakes, Rashford and Casemiro cost us 6 points by stupidly getting themselves sent off in we would have won but ended up losing and there was the absolutely god awful performance at home to FC Bayern when we needed to win but only managed 1 shot on target and lost 1-0.
I think it's hilarious they're claiming you don't understand statistics while being under the impression that clean sheets are an accurate measurement of goal keeping performance and that our defence this year was the same as last year. The defence is absolutely not the same and certainly not performing to the same level and that's before we take into account the fact that there is no protection for the back and that the team are conceding an unprecedented amount of shots.
De Gea was statically distinctly average in the league last year but could pull off the odd worldy which is I presume what people are remembering aside from the errors, not coming for crosses and being unable to pass the ball 5 yards.
Onana is a strange one. He looks odd and often isn't positioned properly and has made high profile errors. He really looked off it in the last game and arguably could have saved Two to three of those goals.
However, he is in top 5/6 for save % and performance against post shot xG. With a settled defence and facing a lot less shots I'm not sure he'd be a huge issue. He's certainly way down on the list of priorities with regard to upgrades imo.
Nah he will be OK once we have a consistent back 4. We have other areas to adress (right wing, CM, manager etc)
I agree with your premise but I'm not sure if I'd be using the Casemiro red card that came from Onana's mistake. We were generally crap in the Champions League, our games had the level of chaos we've seen in all competitions in 2024, but Onana was also absolutely dreadful and was one of the biggest factors for us going out in the group stage albeit not the only one by any means. He's been better since albeit still unconvincing and disappointing given expectations and the money spent.
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What are the stats saying about his CL performances?
It did come after Onana's mistake yes but in turn Onana's mistake came from Lindelofs mistake putting him under unneccessary pressure and Onana didnt force Casemiro to stupidly go flying in to the back of the defender and conceed a penalty and red card.
If wasnt for the Red Cards Rashford and Casemiro got themselves we would have won those 2 games, got 6 more points, and been got through to the next round.
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Ah I see.
Attempt to defeat sarcastic logic with insults.
Right so by saying it's not perfect, you admit the data is flawed.
I've never claimed to be perfect, you however do.
Go back to your book of stats and keep wondering why we are 8th in the table when they say we are first, maybe your eyes are lying to you.
Good day.
I'm done proving you wrong.
I agree, there were several reasons.
We were incredibly open defensively in most CL games and iirc we missed some very good chances in a couple of the games.
I think Onana had a very poor CL and was a massive part of why we went out, but he definitely wasn't the only one responsible.
Onana has let himself down with the same concentration mistakes De Gea was making in the last half of his United career. Despite that I'd have him as 1 of our top 5 players this season so I dont think hes a main issue.
However if we did need a new keeper Svilar at Roma has been an incredible shot stopper this season.
However if we did need a new keeper Svilar at Roma has been an incredible shot stopper this season.
Only his long passing. And most importantly he is significantly less involved in the buildup if you look at the total number of passes.Dave’s passing is better?
This is excellent, yet more strawmanning followed by an attempted mic drop.
Just think one thing to think about; if I can accept that no stats are perfect, are you able to accept that your eyes are also not perfect? And therefore, by your logic, flawed?
Pretty sure everyone was saying DDG didn’t work out in his few couple of seasons. The trouble with a lot of fan bases. They don’t give players enough time to adjust to a new league and new players. The defence haven’t helped him and having a different back line every single game.
I agree. We have more pressing priorities. Happy for him to have a full season with what should be upgraded CB's and a Casemiro (#6) replacement that can all stay fit - hopefully it'll make a world of difference.
Xg is based on the position where the shot was taken, it does not take into consideration if the shot was straight to the keeper, or if the shot was taken properly. If you look at some of the goals he's conceding you'll realize how bad his technique really is.
Yeah it's just projection from folks who actually don't understand statistics and disagree with the conclusion that the stats inevitably lead to.
I'm pretty much in the same boat as you, I can understand why Onana doesn't really pass the eye test for a lot of folks, and I'm not convinced by his technique, but as well as a few howlers he went through a period of good form too, which gets forgotten (or ignored by those with an agenda).
On top of that, the stats simply don't lie, he's made a lot of saves and prevented a lot of goals, much more so than DDG last year.
If ever stats give the wrong impression. The stats tell us he's one of the best shot stoppers in the league!
Theory: oppositions are so surprised by Man Utd's disappearing midfield that they confusedly shoot too early from saveable distances rather than going in closer for the kill, giving Onana lots of saveable shots to hide his mistakes in.
We need better than just OK if we're going to challenge for leagues and CLs in the near future.
I still don’t understand how that stats have said he’s saved 6 more than he was expected to but we’ve seen that he’s let in Atleast that amount that he should have saved. Where is the maths in those stats.
as shown above, ddg has almost the same short pass accuracy percentage and far Better long ball pass percentage. Yet I’m sure most would say Onana is a far better pass even though the stats clearly don’t show that
Except PSxG does, and we have numbers for that too.
https://fbref.com/en/players/e9c0c1b2/Andre-Onana
PSxG over the season means he's prevented 1.8 more goals this season than the average Premier League keeper. Per 90 that's equal to Neto and Allisson and still in the top half of all goalkeepers in the Premier League. His technique is unorthodox, it's bad for some types of shots and good for others. On the whole he's a little above average as a Premier League shot stopper. We have a massive sample size this season to show that.
Our problem is and always has been shot volume this season. We've faced 55.8 PSxG this season and we've had no attacking threat to show for it (unlike Spurs and Villa).
I don't think it's confusion, but I do agree that it's very tempting to try a long range shot when you are completely free to do it instead of moving forward to battle it out with the CBs.
Agreed. His improvement in terms of handling the ball with his feet has been negated by his worse shot stopping than a reduced De Gea.
Negligible effect. He still goes long so we're not even making use of his feet.
No we couldn't have. He was the cheaper option.
It's because it was working for him at Ajax so they stopped their attempts to coach it out of him.
Thought it was odd how inter who got impatient and kept pushing the transfer
We should have kept De Gea and Kovar and have the latter play in the cups. Like he's doing now for Leverkusen.