Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager

NLunited said:
There are good arguments on both sides, but the ‘Ten Hag out’ cultists ignore all arguments in favour. None of the ‘Ten Hag in’ posters do this, no one ignores the bad stuff.
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Seriously? I find it very much the opposite. Most of the 'Ten Hag in' posters constantly make out that the injuries were the cause of all our issues this season, and ignore the fact that we were just as bad when we had almost everyone fit and that we actually improved at the end of the season despite having even more injuries that at any other stage due to ETH finally changing his tactics. Many also like to use the incredibly bad faith argument that the 'ETH out' posters are ignoring the injuries and have unrealistic expectations, which quite clearly isn't true. There's a huge difference between having reduced expectations and completely throwing away any expectations.

There's certainly some 'out' posters that go overboard and are unfair, but I find the vocal 'inners' to be much more guilty of ignoring the points the other side are making.
 
NLunited said:
And yet, 80% still support him. Why is that?

We hate the Glazers, don’t trust INEOS yet, and recognize how big an accomplishment the FA cup win was with enigmatic wins against Pool and Cheaty.

They also see how he is developing youth. He told Mainoo last year after the League Cup that his time would come.

He has a plan to make us a winning machine: the cup wins despite a compromised squad are evidence of that.
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What plan? Having the worse season in the last 30 yrs? GD-1? Record number of losses? Having a horrendous midfield set up? Enlighten us please.
 
Borys said:
This. Every day with "silent treatment" from the club is ETH getting closer to the sack. It's just a matter of arrangements in the backoffice. Like I said, I'm not too bothered about that dragging on a bit.
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It's not impossible that they keep ETH but it now looks so bad for him that no serious player would come, because they would rightly assume he's a dead man walking with a maximum of a year left.

However the stadium redevelopment throws a shadow over everything INEOS does. Realistically they can only increase club revenue by increasing their gate receipts, by building a hundred thousand seater stadium. The cost of that is going to put us in Highbury Wengerland for a decade, where the main objective is to finish fourth as cheaply as possible. Bringing in statement managers then sacking them will not be an especially smart way of doing that. There's an argument that given time and the right infrastructure ETH can outperform his budget.
 
glazed said:
This all day. If they were looking towards keeping him it would smell completely different. Corporate management written all over it. Keep options open till you ready to move.
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I'm not saying you're wrong , it's a different position , but if the dan ashworth move is anything to go buy , this corporate management doesn't share that sentiment .
 
MadDogg said:
Seriously? I find it very much the opposite. Most of the 'Ten Hag in' posters constantly make out that the injuries were the cause of all our issues this season, and ignore the fact that we were just as bad when we had almost everyone fit and that we actually improved at the end of the season despite having even more injuries that at any other stage due to ETH finally changing his tactics. Many also like to use the incredibly bad faith argument that the 'ETH out' posters are ignoring the injuries and have unrealistic expectations, which quite clearly isn't true. There's a huge difference between having reduced expectations and completely throwing away any expectations.

There's certainly some 'out' posters that go overboard and are unfair, but I find the vocal 'inners' to be much more guilty of ignoring the points the other side are making.
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Injuries are systematically not mentioned in posts by Ten Hag outters.

Our worst injuries were in the middle of the season, not the end, you are being untruthful there.

I know this bothers you, so I’m going to say it again: two cups in two years (while trying to play attacking pro-active football promoting youth into the team).
GreatDane said:
As the quote goes "Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth", and boy did we get punched :wenger:
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Oh boy did we. Cheaty really gave it to us. So did Pool this season. They used us like punching bags.

Help Hag build a good squad and he will deliver more trophies. The evidence is right in yur faces.
 
Robbie Boy said:
But Arteta wasn't playing remotely exciting football early days so it's a moot point. I think you're confusing him with Klopp. You're vastly overstating what kind of patience fans will have. And you're also vastly overating our squad.
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None of the people saying Arteta had entertaining tactics watched more than 1 or 2 Arsenal matches during his first few seasons. Arsenal supporters were saying all the same things about Arteta that United supporters are saying about Ten Hag now. The simple fact is that the vast majority of fans have no idea who close or far any club is from clicking tactically, they're just basing everything on the results. In their minds if the club wins matches then the tactics are sound and positive, if the results are poor it's because the tactics are poor and the manager is stupid. If the results end up improving later on, the tactics in matches prior are retroactively vindicated.

Managing a top club is incredibly difficult and unless the squad is truly world class there's really no way to get the requisite experience besides doing the job for a while. This problem is even bigger at United with little to no support or expertise at all from the C-suites. ETH seems to have gone through the painful early learning process and a lot of bad luck mixed in and come out the other side with 2 trophies and a squad that's still working hard for him (save for a few players who have always struggled to stay motivated). He's brought as many quality young players into the first team in 2 years as all the previous post-SAF managers had in 9, plus the 21 year old striker who's going to be very good for us for a while. He's managed to build up players who most had completely written off (Maguire, Dalot, Wan-Bissaka).

I'm interested to see what ETH can do in a with a full squad, a reasonable pre-season schedule, a normal injury load and a limit of one drama bomb from an over paid diva forward.
 
NLunited said:
Injuries are systematically not mentioned in posts by Ten Hag outters.

Our worst injuries were in the middle of the season, not the end, you are being untruthful there.
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And yet our worst form was in the beginning of the season. 5 wins 5 defeats by the end of October
 
MadDogg said:
Seriously? I find it very much the opposite. Most of the 'Ten Hag in' posters constantly make out that the injuries were the cause of all our issues this season, and ignore the fact that we were just as bad when we had almost everyone fit and that we actually improved at the end of the season despite having even more injuries that at any other stage due to ETH finally changing his tactics. Many also like to use the incredibly bad faith argument that the 'ETH out' posters are ignoring the injuries and have unrealistic expectations, which quite clearly isn't true. There's a huge difference between having reduced expectations and completely throwing away any expectations.

There's certainly some 'out' posters that go overboard and are unfair, but I find the vocal 'inners' to be much more guilty of ignoring the points the other side are making.
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NLunited said:
I know this bothers you, so I’m going to say it again: two cups in two years (while trying to play attacking pro-active football promoting youth into the team).
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Case in point. No use arguing on this level.
Those who feel Ten Hag needs to be replaced are bothered by the cup wins, yep, that's it.. :annoyed:
 
FortunaUtd said:
Case in point. No use arguing on this level.
Those who feel Ten Hag needs to be replaced are bothered by the cup wins, yep, that's it.. :annoyed:
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Just to be clear, you speak for a minority of 20% who want him out, a little less arrogant would be nice.
 
astracrazy said:
Silence is an option. It shows EtH position was never in question in the first place and it was all media speculation which was ignored. Absolutely no need to release statements that we have actually decided to keep EtH - it will add fuel to the fire and would show it was in question.

The journos have gone from 100% sacked, to review next week finishing soon, to barely making comments about it. A complete back down.

And to be quiet honest, the only frenzy I see about this is on this forum anyway.
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I'm sorry but it's almost certain that this isn't the case. Clarity over the future of ETH is critical when it comes to new signings and departures. We may not come out with a statement, but the decision will be made clear.

The current silence shows indecision, which is a bit worrying at this point.
 
MadDogg said:
Seriously? I find it very much the opposite. Most of the 'Ten Hag in' posters constantly make out that the injuries were the cause of all our issues this season, and ignore the fact that we were just as bad when we had almost everyone fit and that we actually improved at the end of the season despite having even more injuries that at any other stage due to ETH finally changing his tactics. Many also like to use the incredibly bad faith argument that the 'ETH out' posters are ignoring the injuries and have unrealistic expectations, which quite clearly isn't true. There's a huge difference between having reduced expectations and completely throwing away any expectations.

There's certainly some 'out' posters that go overboard and are unfair, but I find the vocal 'inners' to be much more guilty of ignoring the points the other side are making.
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Claiming ten hag out as a cu lt is a special take given how detached from reality some of the ten hag in types seem to be
 
I dont know why we're still engaging TenHagEra's redcafe account in this thread.
 
Matt851 said:
Claiming ten hag out as a cu lt is a special take given how detached from reality some of the ten hag in types seem to be
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Having a balanced view is being detached from reality? Was Arteta shitt? Ferguson??
 
I’m thinking this is heading towards Southgate coming in. The season doesn’t kick off until August and TH is under contract, so they don’t need to say anything. I think this as I was expecting a decision by Friday. That has been more than enough time to bring in any manager out of work. Chelsea did it quickly. I hope I am 100% wrong, but can’t think of any other explanation.
 
NLunited said:
Injuries are systematically not mentioned in posts by Ten Hag outters.

Our worst injuries were in the middle of the season, not the end, you are being untruthful there.

I know this bothers you, so I’m going to say it again: two cups in two years (while trying to play attacking pro-active football promoting youth into the team).

Oh boy did we. Cheaty really gave it to us. So did Pool this season. They used us like punching bags.

Help Hag build a good squad and he will deliver more trophies. The evidence is right in yur faces.
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Ten Hag In Mafia Be Like:

He won us two cups

We had injuries

He didn’t get De Jong and Kane

He didn’t negotiate the Antony fee

His tactics are great, but the players can’t execute them properly

His tactics are great, but the players are downing tools

His tactics are great, but the players won’t run for him

It’s the club, we have no structure

It’s the club, we have no scouting or recruitment


The Ten Hag Out Club Be Like:

Results and performances.
 
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NLunited said:
I know this bothers you, so I’m going to say it again: two cups in two years (while trying to play attacking pro-active football promoting youth into the team).
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Two cups in two years (plus another final) is a solid achievement under Ten Hag, without a doubt.

The bolded part is odd to mention as a positive. United have not been particularly successful at playing attacking football. They've scored 58 and 57 league goals in Ten Hag's two league campaigns. Last season they were 6th on NPxG and this season they were 12th.
 
DSG said:
Ten Hag In Mafia Be Like:

He won us two cups

We had injuries

He didn’t get De Jong and Kane

He didn’t negotiate the Antony fee

His tactics are great, but the players can’t execute them properly

His tactics are great, but the players are downing tools

His tactics are great, but the players won’t run for him

It’s the club, we have no structure

It’s the club, we have no scouting or recruitment


The Ten Hag Out Club Be Like:

Results.
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Perforrmances more than results. If the performances were coherent the results would be acceptable.
 
wolvored said:
I’m thinking this is heading towards Southgate coming in. The season doesn’t kick off until August and TH is under contract, so they don’t need to say anything. I think this as I was expecting a decision by Friday. That has been more than enough time to bring in any manager out of work. Chelsea did it quickly. I hope I am 100% wrong, but can’t think of any other explanation.
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No way would I support him even for 8 secs let alone the 8 years he has been managing England. Don't know how INEOS can ever win the fans over after such a horrendous appointment
 
pocco said:
They've not given any support even once, in months of being here. Quite the opposite, in fact. The way SJR thanked everybody for the FA Cup apart from our manager, speaks volumes. If you want to put your fingers in you ears and pretend it's all made up then fine. But I believe they would have briefed even one journalist, even just one time at any point since December, that they believe Ten Hag is the man to take us forward.
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Well it was made up because he was not sacked after the final!
I am only referring to the article in the Guardian and nothing else and I cannot make it any clearer to you.
Have a nice day.
 
Shaw: “I felt something against Aston Villa and came off at half-time. I didn’t train the whole week and when the scan came back, there wasn’t too much there."

“I then trained the day before the game (at Luton) - and if the manager asks me to play, I’m never going to say ‘no.’ But I shouldn’t have played. It’s kind of everyone’s fault. Partly my fault, partly the medical staff. I think everyone would admit that.”

Not a good look when our biggest injury problem is blaming the manager partly and the second biggest we know got a calf injury after being rushed back from the knee injury.
 
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hobbers said:
“I felt something against Aston Villa and came off at half-time. I didn’t train the whole week and when the scan came back, there wasn’t too much there."

“I then trained the day before the game (at Luton) - and if the manager asks me to play, I’m never going to say ‘no.’ But I shouldn’t have played. It’s kind of everyone’s fault. Partly my fault, partly the medical staff. I think everyone would admit that.”

Not a good look when our biggest injury problem is blaming the manager partly and the second biggest we know got a calf injury after being rushed back from the knee injury.
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You should write the names of the people giving the quotes when you write a quote. Save the less patient of us from having to use our brains to work out who said what. I don't come on here to use my brain.
 
NLunited said:
Injuries are systematically not mentioned in posts by Ten Hag outters.

Our worst injuries were in the middle of the season, not the end, you are being untruthful there.

I know this bothers you, so I’m going to say it again: two cups in two years (while trying to play attacking pro-active football promoting youth into the team).
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Like I said, an incredibly bad faith argument. Injuries not being mentioned in every single post doesn't mean they aren't being taken into account.

At the start of the season the expectations were that we'd improve further, finish comfortably in the top four, reduce the gap between us and the top few teams, get through the CL group and go as far as we could until we faced one of the top teams, and move towards a playstyle that will stand us in good stead in the future.

Due to the injuries, nobody realistically had those expectations anymore. Those expectations dropped to being something along the lines of finishing in the top 6, get through the easy CL group (any further depended on what opposition we got), and still move towards a playstyle that will stand us in good stead in the future, albeit with it being made harder by the injuries. That was all completely doable.

Instead we finished 8th with a negative goal difference (being very lucky to finish that highly), got regularly outplayed by teams that had just as many if not more injuries at the time as well as teams in the relegation zone, finished last in an easy CL group, and had a playstyle all season that didn't make sense and got ripped apart by basically every team that even attempted to come at us, that will need to be changed dramatically again for any future success anyway.

You and many others seem to use 'injuries' as an excuse to completely rip up any and all expectations. Refusing to acknowledge that, even with the injuries, there were certain expectations that should and could have been met.

As for the injuries being worse in the middle of the season...as bad as our defensive injuries were all season, we always had at least two centrebacks fit. It was only the last few weeks of the season that it got so bad that we had to play Casemiro back there, and at the same time Bruno and Rashford also missed some of those games after being available all season previously (plus the usuals like Mount and Martial of course). That was worse than we'd had at any other point.
 
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MadDogg said:
Like I said, an incredibly bad faith argument. Injuries not being mentioned in every single post doesn't mean they aren't being taken into account.

At the start of the season the expectations were that we'd improve further, finish comfortably in the top four, reduce the gap between us and the top few teams, get through the CL group and go as far as we could until we faced one of the top teams, and move towards a playstyle that will stand us in good stead in the future.

Due to the injuries, nobody realistically had those expectations anymore. Those expectations dropped to being something along the lines of finishing in the top 6, get through the easy CL group (any further depended on what opposition we got), and still move towards a playstyle that will stand us in good stead in the future, albeit with it being made harder by the injuries. That was all completely doable.

Instead we finished 8th with a negative goal difference (being very lucky to finish that highly), got regularly outplayed by teams that had just as many if not more injuries at the time as well as teams in the relegation zone, finished last in an easy CL group, and had a playstyle all season that didn't make sense and got ripped apart by basically every team that even attempted to come at us, that will need to be changed dramatically again for any future success anyway.

You and many others seem to use 'injuries' as an excuse to completely rip up any and all expectations. Refusing to acknowledge that, even with the injuries, there were certain expectations that should and could have been met.

As for the injuries being worse in the middle of the season...as bad as our defensive injuries were all season, we always had at least two centrebacks fit. It was only the last few weeks of the season that it got so bad that we had to play Casemiro back there, and at the same time Bruno and Rashford also missed some of those games after being available all season previously (plus the usuals like Mount and Martial of course). That was worse than we'd had at any other point.
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Well said. Definitely graduation goggles being used by so many. Funny thing was our FA cup was a pretty lucky run too. Then apparently beating a city side that played one of their worse games I've seen them play is enough to overrule everything else
 
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