Scores die in Israeli air strikes

Nucks said:
Since you are so detached from reality I have to ask you.

Did a jewish kid regularly beat you up in school?

feck your sweetheart?

Shit on the graves of your ancestors?

All I am seeing is total irrational hate here, just how wide is your mustache?
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None of the above...

I am against brainless murder at the hands of anyone, including from my home country, the United States.

I've condemned the actions of the terror group Hamas, as well.

I love Jewish people... some of the funniest or otherwise gifted actors and actress' that I enjoy are Jewish. :p Who doesn't love Seinfeld?

But seriously, do you think the IDF are handling this in the most responsible manner?
 
Amir said:
Idiot.

Besides, if we wanted to do that, we'd have to sacrifice a few of our children. We know the world doesn't give a f*ck unless you've got some badly mutulated bodies to show.
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Wrong... Nim-rod...

What harm would it do to bomb an empty school and say, the palestinians are doing the same, only they didn't kill our children?


It would be a Public Relations stunt with zero consequences...


There is something you might be missing in all this, I'm somewhat suspicious of the Israeli intentions throughout this conflict...

As the mainstream media is reporting, most people are suspicious. The Israeli govt. and it's people appear to be complete devoid of that reality.
 
ooeat0meoo said:
But seriously, do you think the IDF are handling this in the most responsible manner?
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That's a tough question, and there's no real answer. They could fire less long range missiles and use more of the ground troops - but that would mean far more fatalities on our side. There's also no question the time window for this operation is limited, because sooner or later the US will step in and make us end it, and yet we do have a lot to accomplish (yes, a lot of terrorists to kill).

So like I said, there's no right or wrong answer. This is war, and innocent get killed in wars. Do you think Hamas have handled it in a responsible manner or just don't give a sh*t? After all, they are the democratially elected leaders.
 
ooeat0meoo said:
What harm would it do to bomb an empty school and say, the palestinians are doing the same, only they didn't kill our children?

It would be a Page Ranking stunt with zero consequences...

There is something you might be missing in all this, I'm somewhat suspicious of the Israeli intentions throughout this conflict...

As the mainstream media is reporting, most people are suspicious. The Israeli govt. and it's people appear to be complete devoid of that reality.
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Well, I am the one saying those things. I don't see pictures of that kindergarten in worldwide news bulletins, so either it was a very poorly executed stunt or not a stunt at all. I mean, what's next? You'll claim the Palestenians aren't firing at us at all? Oh, let me guess, we bombed the Twin Towers in New York!

As far as your suspicions are concerned, there's nothing I can do. You want to be suspicous, fine. After eight years of rockets falling on our heads and the world keeping quiet, we kind of don't care what the average person in the world thinks, and focus on how the average person in Israel lives.
 
Amir said:
I struggled to find a better response for someone who claims we bomb our own buildings to create international support for ourselves. :wenger:
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I feel your pain. Have a look at any of the Iraq threads. :)
 
ooeat0meoo said:
None of the above...

I am against brainless murder at the hands of anyone, including from my home country if the United States.

I've condemned the actions of the terror group Hamas, as well.

I love Jewish people... some of the funniest or otherwise gifted actors and actress' that I enjoy are Jewish. :p Who doesn't love Seinfeld?

But seriously, do you think the IDF are handling this in the most responsible manner?
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Responsible? Do you mean you would rather see Israel do nothing and allow Hamas to continually fire rockets into Israel until it we can all look at pictures of a bunch of torn up Jewish children?

Perhaps you mean Israel should remove any restrictions from Gaza and lift its embargo? So that Hamas can import more and more military equipment with an ever increasing sophistication? So that instead of once in awhile Hamas gets lucky and kills a bunch of babies they can load up google maps and plot the exact GPS coordinates into their guided missiles and kill a bunch of Jews every time?

Perhaps Israel should just disarm so they can get strapped to the rape stand and buggered good and proper?

If Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon ALL disarmed tomorrow, they would have absolutely nothing to fear from Israel, they might get invaded by their other Arab neighbors however.

If Israel disarmed tomorrow, the day after Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon and a number of terrorist organizations would be in Israel slaughtering Jews.

Puts the whole concept of agenda and who is right and wrong in perspective when you take that FACT into consideration.
 
ooeat0meoo said:
None of the above...

I am against brainless murder at the hands of anyone, including from my home country if the United States.

I've condemned the actions of the terror group Hamas, as well.

I love Jewish people... some of the funniest or otherwise gifted actors and actress' that I enjoy are Jewish. :p Who doesn't love Seinfeld?

But seriously, do you think the IDF are handling this in the most responsible manner?
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WTF?

Confessions of a teenage drama queen!
 
Nucks said:
Perhaps you mean Israel should remove any restrictions from Gaza and lift its embargo? So that Hamas can import more and more military equipment with an ever increasing sophistication? So that instead of once in awhile Hamas gets lucky and kills a bunch of babies they can load up google maps and plot the exact GPS coordinates into their guided missiles and kill a bunch of Jews every time?
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Mate, you're even scaring me. :nervous:
 
Amir said:
Do you think Hamas have handled it in a responsible manner or just don't give a sh*t? After all, they are the democratially elected leaders.
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Absolutely!!! NOT!!!

Hamas should be punished harshly.


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Here's yet another example of my disapproval for the indescriminent butchering of innocent people....

Here in the United States several of the guys that worked for Halliburton (The company Raoul works for... ;) or was it Blackwater?) are going on trial for opening fire on a neighborhood of civilians.

I applaud such efforts to hold up justice and the intentions of honor, by doing the right thing and condemning the wrong actions.
 
Amir said:
Besides, if we wanted to do that, we'd have to sacrifice a few of our children. We know the world doesn't give a f*ck unless you've got some badly mutulated bodies to show.
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May be as the elections are drawing near, your politicians are sticking their necks too far there. I reckon Israel could've handled the crisis in a far more better manner.
 
vijay said:
May be as the elections are drawing near, your politicians are sticking their necks too far there. I reckon Israel could've handled the crisis in a far more better manner.
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Our prime minister is not running in the elections, and is not really involved within his party anymore, so forget about that little idea. As for handling it better, we've tried other ways and all we get was longer range assaults. Everyone's got an opinion, fine.
 
Im pretty sure Isreal would take a lasting peace deal, can't say the same about Hamas though.
 
Nucks said:
If Adolf Hitler started chilling out in a school full of children during the later days of WW2 and we knew where he was, we'd send so many fecking bombers to wipe it out you'd think it was night time.

If Osama Bin Laden took refuge in a school and we knew about it, the first tomahawk cruise missiles would be on their way in minutes and the school would be leveled.

What don't you understand about the strategy of Hamas.

Their modus operandi is to attack Israel until Israel HAS to react. They attack from locations that will maximize civilian casualties and even hide in refugee camps apparently.

Hamas WANTS these civilian deaths, it is the only way they can justify themselves. Israel knows this but they seem pretty resolved to simply brutalize Hamas so much it becomes irrelevant.
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Indeed youre absolutely right about Osama Bin Ladin and Hitler.
If their whereabouts had been known they would be/would have been taken out regardless of the cost to civilians.
You could also have mentioned Hiroshima, Dresden or whatever as even more evidence of civilian deaths been worth the price of bringing a war to an end.

What you fail to grasp is the concept of proportionality.
Hamas terrorism firing rockets, mostly with little effect into the heart of Israel, a highly militarised and powerful state and the response against a Third World country.

Like I say I dont give a tinkers curse about the Middle East.
Just pointing out how the actions of BOTH sides are seen by the vast majority of people outside the madness of the apologists for these war mongerers.

The rest of us dont fall into line with a full throated 100% endorsement of these war mongering evil doers.
We merely watch as it descends and people as shown in your post lose sight of any moral compas.
Although the war mongerers ON BOTH SIDES want their grubby nasty little war to spread and engulf the whole world ......it wont.
The destruction of the Middle East is inevitable.
I wont shed tears.
 
If the Israeli's had a wall built around them, and as a result didn't get enough food, water, medical aid, gas and electricity - would they fire rockets?
 
Fitzjames said:
What you fail to grasp is the concept of proportionality. Hamas terrorism firing rockets, mostly with little effect into the heart of Israel, a highly militarised and powerful state and the response against a Third World country.
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What has that got to do with anything? They may not be scud missiles, but they STILL KILL. First they were Qassam rockets, then more dangerous Grads. First they could only reach 10 kilometers, then 20, now 40. Our lack of response has left us dealing with threats that are getting worse and worse. We cannot have an armed terrorist entity whose manifest include the distruction of Israel sit next to us. Seems so bloody basic to me.
 
Amir said:
What has that got to do with anything? They may not be scud missiles, but they STILL KILL. First they were Qassam rockets, then more dangerous Grads. First they could only reach 10 kilometers, then 20, now 40. Our lack of response has left us dealing with threats that are getting worse and worse. We cannot have an armed terrorist entity whose manifest include the distruction of Israel sit next to us. Seems so bloody basic to me.
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It would seem basic to somebody who equates 5 or 6 Israelis being killed by rockets over the space of years, to 100 children being killed in the space of days
 
Tibs said:
It would seem basic to somebody who equates 5 or 6 Israelis being killed by rockets over the space of years, to 100 children being killed in the space of days
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More like 15 or 20. But if we sat down and done nothing, it would have been 30, and then 40, and then maybe jump to 70 when a classroom had taken a direct hit. Yep, those children have died. They died because Israel had to go to war to make sure Israeli children would not die. It's may sound heartless, but that's the basics of our harsh reality: It's kill or be killed.

We are doing what we must to protect our children. What did the leaders of Gaza do? Hamas did what they did knowing full well innocent people in Gaza will suffer eventually when Israel will be forced to retaliate in order to protect our own innocent, attacked citizens. They are the aggressors, they are the ones who do not value lives.
 
Tibs said:
If the Israeli's had a wall built around them, and as a result didn't get enough food, water, medical aid, gas and electricity - would they fire rockets?
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My guess would be we'd have grown our food, desalinezed water and built a pharmaceutical industry. By exporting some of the products we'd be able to import oil and coal for electricity.

Oh wait...this is largely what we have done in the last 60 years since a wall of hatred was built around us.
 
holyland red said:
My guess would be we'd have grown our food, desalinezed water and built a pharmaceutical industry. By exporting some of the products we'd be able to import oil and coal for electricity.

Oh wait...this is largely what we have done in the last 60 years since a wall of hatred was built around us.
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Playing the victim card as usual.
 
This footage is a bit old, but supports the IDF claim that Hamas used the school for military purposes (which makes it a legitimate target according to international law).

 
Tibs said:
If the Israeli's had a wall built around them, and as a result didn't get enough food, water, medical aid, gas and electricity - would they fire rockets?
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Probably, and any military reprisals against them would be legitimate.

However this ignores the difference in objectives and cultural values of the two antagonists.

Israel would be happy for lasting peace tomorrow. They would eventually come around to a two state solution and live happily ever after.

Hamas and groups like them will TAKE a two state solution for one purpose, to improve their power base so that they can work toward their ultimate goal of destroying Israel.

Obviously Israel can NEVER agree to the two state solution while this threat exists. They would simply be arming those who want to destroy them.
 
I can't believe Israelis and their apologists on here are making excuses. Disgusting.
 
Fitzjames said:
Indeed youre absolutely right about Osama Bin Ladin and Hitler.
If their whereabouts had been known they would be/would have been taken out regardless of the cost to civilians.
You could also have mentioned Hiroshima, Dresden or whatever as even more evidence of civilian deaths been worth the price of bringing a war to an end.

What you fail to grasp is the concept of proportionality.
Hamas terrorism firing rockets, mostly with little effect into the heart of Israel, a highly militarised and powerful state and the response against a Third World country.

Like I say I dont give a tinkers curse about the Middle East.
Just pointing out how the actions of BOTH sides are seen by the vast majority of people outside the madness of the apologists for these war mongerers.

The rest of us dont fall into line with a full throated 100% endorsement of these war mongering evil doers.
We merely watch as it descends and people as shown in your post lose sight of any moral compas.
Although the war mongerers ON BOTH SIDES want their grubby nasty little war to spread and engulf the whole world ......it wont.
The destruction of the Middle East is inevitable.
I wont shed tears.
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I'm highly pragmatic and a realist. My education is also such that I view war with an eye toward finality and conclusion. This means that morality is a luxury. When possible be humane, when necessary be inhumane. Then you rebuild the country and everyone lives happily ever after a generation later ala Germany and Japan.

This means that Hamas, as a democratically elected government has committed an act of war against Israel. This means that Israel is well within international laws and rights to take the war to Hamas, destroy it as a political organization and to remove its ability to threaten Israel.

Anything else barring the INTENTIONAL slaughter of non-combatants is superfluous.
 
Nucks said:
I'm highly pragmatic and a realist. My education is also such that I view war with an eye toward finality and conclusion. This means that morality is a luxury. When possible be humane, when necessary be inhumane. Then you rebuild the country and everyone lives happily ever after a generation later ala Germany and Japan.

This means that Hamas, as a democratically elected government has committed an act of war against Israel. This means that Israel is well within international laws and rights to take the war to Hamas, destroy it as a political organization and to remove its ability to threaten Israel.

Anything else barring the INTENTIONAL slaughter of non-combatants is superfluous.
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Your education must not be much because you don't realize that what israel is doing will not end hamas. They are doing it to punish the Palestinians and nothing else. Hamas will be stronger then ever.
 
Nistelrooy10 said:
I can't believe Israelis and their apologists on here are making excuses. Disgusting.
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Excuses for what?

For there to be an excuse there has to be an admittance of some sort of failing or wrong doing.

I've just seen lots of irrational antisemitism in this thread.
 
Nucks said:
Excuses for what?

For there to be an excuse there has to be an admittance of some sort of failing or wrong doing.

I've just seen lots of irrational antisemitism in this thread.
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You're excusing killing of children ffs, don't bring out your bullshit antisemitism card
 
Nistelrooy10 said:
Your education must not be much because you don't realize that what israel is doing will not end hamas. They are doing it to punish the Palestinians and nothing else. Hamas will be stronger then ever.
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This is why the Hamas should be exterminated completely.
 
Nistelrooy10 said:
Your education must not be much because you don't realize that what israel is doing will not end hamas. They are doing it to punish the Palestinians and nothing else. Hamas will be stronger then ever.
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Just like Hezbollah is stronger than ever. Right?

In spite of the terribly uninspired tactics used by the IDF in Lebanon against Hezbollah, the campaign itself and the result of it was extremely successful. They have created an environment in which Hezbollah fears Israeli retaliation so much that they have publically stated the cross border raid, kidnap and murder of those Israeli soldiers was a gross miscalculation that ultimately eroded MUCH of their local popular support.

Do you think Hamas is going to be re-elected after this? Not a chance. Hamas will be marginalized politically and return to being just a terrorist organization.
 
Mihajlovic said:
This is why the Hamas should be exterminated completely.
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The way they are doing it is not the way to do it. And they know it, and anybody else who has a tiny bit of brainpower knows it too. And they continue with their pointless offensive which is including kids now.
 
Nucks said:
Just like Hezbollah is stronger than ever. Right?

In spite of the terribly uninspired tactics used by the IDF in Lebanon against Hezbollah, the campaign itself and the result of it was extremely successful. They have created an environment in which Hezbollah fears Israeli retaliation so much that they have publically stated the cross border raid, kidnap and murder of those Israeli soldiers was a gross miscalculation that ultimately eroded MUCH of their local popular support.

Do you think Hamas is going to be re-elected after this? Not a chance. Hamas will be marginalized politically and return to being just a terrorist organization.
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What does that matter if they will still be firing rockets at israel?
 
Nistelrooy10 said:
You're excusing killing of children ffs, don't bring out your bullshit antisemitism card
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Holding Israel soley accountable for their deaths is to ignore the behavior of the people who endangered them in the first place.

Hamas is at least as culpable and perhaps more. They WANTONLY setup in locations where children would be present so they could score the "killer" photo op with al-jazeera.

If you are waging any sort of combat and you don't want civilian casualties you don't fight in locations where civilian casualties will be maximized.

This means;

You do not launch rockets adjacent to BUSY market places.

You do not seek refuge in schools or refugee camps being used as shelter for civilians.

You do not store military assets in schools or mosques or hospitals.

Sorry but in war, saying "you wouldn't hit a guy with glasses on" doesn't really cut it.
 
Nistelrooy10 said:
The way they are doing it is not the way to do it. And they know it, and anybody else who has a tiny bit of brainpower knows it too. And they continue with their pointless offensive which is including kids now.
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Unfortunately there seems to exist no other option. I feel sorry for the kids and I wish they could live a better life instead of being brainwashed to becoming mujahedins.
 
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