If we only sign Valencia...

Valence will definitely get more goals with us than for Wigan if he joins... He would definitely provide more goals than ronaldo as well..
Valencia had 3 goals and 4 assists in 31 appearances for Wigan in the premier league last year, not bad for a mid-table side..
Ronaldo had 18 goals and 6 assists in 31 appearances...

If Valencia joins us and supports our world class ,theres no doubt he probably get more assists than ronaldo did for us last year... We can also count on him to chip in with around 7-10 goals in the EPL

No one is saying he needs to replace Ronaldo goals, but he can certainly replace Ronaldo in the sense that he liberates the other players, like Rooney and Berbatov with his support...

We built the team around Ronaldo, and we should build it around Rooney now..

The only small concern i have is Ronaldo Amazing match winning goals, now thats something that might be hard to replace
 
Rooney and Berbatov is not a partnership built for goals. With Ronaldo around we could get by. Valencia is not half the player though and certainly not half the goal threat. He'd be a stop gap till another player comes through and that would most likely leave us short of a championship winning side.
 
I'd be happy with the signing of Valencia, but I'd be surprised (not disappointed) if he was the only one.

It would be mean putting a lot of trust in Welbeck (who I truly believe is ready for more first team football) and Macheda (who isn't so much) not to mention the pressure they might be put under.
 
Solius said:
I'd be disappointed because I don't think he is United standard. He won't get many goals and I think we need the goals to come from the midfield a bit more. Carrick, Fletcher and Scholes will get about 3 each a season where as Lampard and Gerrard get 20 a season.

We need to replace the goals and Valencia doesn't score many and I don't think he is United quality, nor is he worth the money we apparently are buying him for.
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Exactly, what we need now we have lost Ronaldo and Tevez is a goal scorer. Simple as that. I don't think we need a particularly hard working player or someone who creates lots of chances because we already have that in Park (hard working) and most of the midfield who create hundreds of chances. Our problem is that we get so few goals from our midfield and if either Rooney or Berba gets injured we're short of strikers as well. We need a proven striker as a replacement. Not going to be easy though.

Pogue Mahone said:
Agreed.

The fact that Nani and Anderson haven't come on quite as quickly as we might have hoped, combined with Scholes seemingly being on his last-legs and Giggs being used so sparingly raises the possibility of being back in transition again. Losing Ronaldo and Tevez at the same time means this is even more likely.
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I agree with this as well, which worries me. Our midfield isn't anywhere as good as perhaps it should be for next season, and we need another striker.

notiboiboi said:
Valence will definitely get more goals with us than for Wigan if he joins... He would definitely provide more goals than ronaldo as well..
Valencia had 3 goals and 4 assists in 31 appearances for Wigan in the premier league last year, not bad for a mid-table side..

If Valencia joins us and supports our world class ,theres no doubt he probably get more assists than ronaldo did for us last year... We can also count on him to chip in with around 7-10 goals in the EPL

No one is saying he needs to replace Ronaldo goals, but he can certainly replace Ronaldo in the sense that he liberates the other players, like Rooney and Berbatov with his support...
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How can we be sure he'll get more goals? Maybe the fact he hasn't scored that many at Wigan isn't because he's with a weaker side, but because he isn't much of a prolific goal scorer. 3 goals in a PL season is definitely not good enough. I personally think that buying players to score the goals to replace Ronaldo's goals is exactly what we need to do. And Valencia's goal return isn't good enough, he won't get the goals we need and so I would be disappointed if that's all we're signing this summer.

I think we need a quality winger (which I suppose could be Valencia, who I do rate) to provide us with some width seeing as Park and Nani are good but not brilliant, as well as a striker to replace Tevez and Ronaldo.
 
notiboiboi said:
Valence will definitely get more goals with us than for Wigan if he joins... He would definitely provide more goals than ronaldo as well..
Valencia had 3 goals and 4 assists in 31 appearances for Wigan in the premier league last year, not bad for a mid-table side..
Ronaldo had 18 goals and 6 assists in 31 appearances...

If Valencia joins us and supports our world class ,theres no doubt he probably get more assists than ronaldo did for us last year... We can also count on him to chip in with around 7-10 goals in the EPL

No one is saying he needs to replace Ronaldo goals, but he can certainly replace Ronaldo in the sense that he liberates the other players, like Rooney and Berbatov with his support...

We built the team around Ronaldo, and we should build it around Rooney now..

The only small concern i have is Ronaldo Amazing match winning goals, now thats something that might be hard to replace
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Is that a joke? There is no evidence to suggest that he will score more goals here. Look at Anderson, scored a few at Porto and then can't score here. Look at Berba, he scored 23 at Tottenham last season then comes here and scores just 14. I think that statement is very wild and hard to justify.
 
I won't be too disappointed. In fact I think it would become more interesting to see Macheda, Wellbeck, Tosic and Ljajic etc stepping up.
 
Its not unreasonable to suggest that Valencia might score and assist more goals really. Doesn't always work out that way I know, but still.
 
Ekeke said:
Rooney and Berbatov is not a partnership built for goals. With Ronaldo around we could get by. Valencia is not half the player though and certainly not half the goal threat. He'd be a stop gap till another player comes through and that would most likely leave us short of a championship winning side.
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Agreed 100%

We are still a prolific striker short. Aguero is not the answer he doesn't fit that category. Ibrahimovic would though :)
 
RedRonaldo said:
I won't be too disappointed. In fact I think it would become more interesting to see Macheda, Wellbeck, Tosic and Ljajic etc stepping up.
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Trippin_Stoned said:
Its not unreasonable to suggest that Valencia might score and assist more goals really. Doesn't always work out that way I know, but still.
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Are we willing to take that risk though, and rely upon players who's development will be 'interesting' to see and who 'might' deliver?

I'm not. I want to see proven goal scorers signed. I know this club does like to work on youth and make stars out of players rather than signing them as stars, and that's all well and good, but I think with the massive loss that Ronaldo is going to be we need to sign a replacement for goals and goals alone. We have plenty of players to make the chances, now we need another one to get forward into the box and put them away. And we need a player that we know for sure can do that consistently and often.
 
I would be disappointed if we only signed Valencia. Seeing as we supposedly bid for Tevez that would suggest that SAF believes we do need another striker in the squad. I would definitely like to see us sign a different option upfront, whether that be an expensive talent to challenge for a first team place, or simply a different option from the bench.

However, even if we only signed Valencia, I would back us to win the league and to score more than 68 goals in the league next year. There is plenty of talent and plenty of goals in the squad.
 
Brwned said:
Will people be disappointed?
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Yes.

Brwned said:
If so, why?
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Because they'd like proven quality upfront to compensate for the loss of Ronaldo's goal scoring abilities. Not to mention extra creativity with a goal scoring knack form center midfield.


As for me I'd be impressed. It will show Fergie and his staff have incredible faith in our existing squad and our talented up and coming youngsters. Which would be a novelty amongst teams of our calibre and financial resources. But it's a gamble that could make us look incredibly clever or ridiculously stupid, depending on how it pans out.

Brwned said:
Regardless of how good you think he is, he'll obviously improve our team, give us a bit of added pace and directness and it'll make us a more complete team.

It's pretty clear that Valencia is a more team-orientated player than Ronaldo's ever been, and he'll not try to dominate the play as much. If Valencia settles then it might get us back to a similar level of free flowing football that we had back in 06/07, when we replaced a quite selfish(in a good way, largely) player in Van Nistelrooy for a more team orientated player in Saha.
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Yes. This is partly true. However unlike when we had Ruud, we restricted Ronaldo by making him concentrate moslty on finishng moves. Just thinkto 2007. Even Valencia at his best an not give us what ronaldo gave us that year. Which should put into pespective what a gamble this would be....

Also, Valencia wont compensate for the blow the loss of goals losing Ronaldo entails. If we add only him the likes of Rooney, Berbatov, Macheda, Welbeck and Manucho plus probably even Petrucci will truly have their work cut out in the goal grabbing stakes. IMHO they would most likely deliver though.

Brwned said:
I don't think anyone could really argue that Saha was a better player than Van Nistelrooy, but he helped the team more. When Ronaldo/Van Nistelrooy got on the ball the first thing on their mind was often just to go for goal, Valencia and Saha can be that direct when they want to but often choose to find a team mate instead.

You can look at that as a strength or a weakness, I'll choose to look at it as a strength.

I see plenty of similarities to the 06/07 season and if next season goes as well as that season I'll be absolutely over the moon.
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Agreed.
 
I'll be disappointed. As for why I'd have thought it was kind of obvious, Tevez and Ronaldo have been huge players in our recent success and replacing them with just Valencia is a massive step backwards in the strength of the squad.

The Ronaldo and RvN comparison is, frankly, complete nonsense. Losing him is certainly not going to help us as losing RvN did in the summer of 2006. Here are some reasons why in no particular order:

1. Ronaldo was a much better player than RvN, I've seen a fair bit of Valencia and the gap in quality between Ronaldo and Valencia is considerably bigger than it was with RvN and Saha.
2. Saha replacing RvN actually brought a lot of new attacking qualities to the team such as his build up play, superior pace etc. This is pretty useful seeing as we are talking about attackers after all, my honest assessment of Valencia is that there is no aspect of his attacking game that is better than Ronaldo's and very few that are even close to being as good. He might be a much better player defensively but anyone who thinks defensively is the area of the team we need to improve right now isn't really worth talking to.
3. Our dependency on RvN was noticeably hindering our attacking play in his last 3 seasons at the club when we never even looked close to a dominant force in the league. The exact opposite is the case with Ronaldo, our dependence on him has taken us to 3 straight titles. In 07/08, the year we were most dependant on him, we had one of our most successful seasons in our history.

It's just a ridiculous comparison really.

Aside from that there are a lot of other problems with viewing the coming season in the light of that one and the idea that just one addition will help the team.

1. We're not just losing 1 player, Tevez is also going and needs to be replaced. He was key in one of our greatest ever seasons and even last season when he was fairly poor he still chipped in with vital goals and match changing appearances from the bench.
2. There were an awful lot more reasons for our improvement in 06/07 than just swapping RvN for Saha. Remember that was the first full season we had with Evra and Vidic who swiftly proved to be amongst the best players in their position in the league. Who do we have in a similar situation going into next season? Tosic and possibly Manucho. We also spent big money that summer on Carrick who improved our midfield by leaps and bounds. Losing out in quality in one area is fine if it's replace in quality in another but it has to be real and concrete strengthing like Evra, Vidic and Carrick were. This is not the same thing as "Berbatov/Nani/Anderson will step up because I want them to", "This is Rooney's year" etc.

Honestly the idea that going from Ronaldo to Valencia and Tevez to Macheda/Welbeck won't hurt us and could even improve us smacks of arrogance and underestimating the opposition. While Valencia is a decent player who could be a very good addition for us it should surely be as part of larger revinestment in the team exactly as how RvN to Saha was just a part of Fergie's building of a side that included signing Evra, Vidic and Carric. Valencia plus a big money forward to help with the huge hit in goals we're taking would be a far more realistic approach to our transfer policy if we don't wish to allow Liverpool or Chelsea to knock us off our perch.
 
I would be disappointed.

Ronaldo and Tevez out and only Valencia in. We would be considerably weaker than we were last season.

The youngsters like Wellbeck look good, but im not sure if they are quite ready to be playing 15-20 games a season, which may be required of them as a third striker.

Though only Fergie knows i guess.
 
KingLaw said:
Is that a joke? There is no evidence to suggest that he will score more goals here. Look at Anderson, scored a few at Porto and then can't score here. Look at Berba, he scored 23 at Tottenham last season then comes here and scores just 14. I think that statement is very wild and hard to justify.
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This is what gets me.

People always assume that a player, like Berbatov, will get better next season or any new signing will improve in a red shirt.

Its not always the case. Anderson & Nani didn’t improve on their first season and there are many others.

Lets just hope that Berbatov doesn’t suffer from second season syndrome.

Or does the condition of second season syndrome only apply if you have had a good first season???
 
SAF's comments suggesting Wellbeck will be in the party to South Africa is a pointer that he'll be given a chance to stake his claim.

Let's not get too dismissive of the quality still in abundance at United.
 
Taunt me all my caf life if I get this wrong.

I reckon Wellbeck will be as good if not better than Tevez in 12/18 months if he's not held back by a new signing.
 
Everyone seems to be saying that building the team around Ronaldo was a bad thing and it's good we're not doing anymore, and yet then claiming with a straight face that we should instead build the team around Rooney. Why would building the team around Rooney be any better than building it around Ronaldo?
 
Brwned said:
Will people be disappointed?

If so, why?

Regardless of how good you think he is, he'll obviously improve our team, give us a bit of added pace and directness and it'll make us a more complete team.

It's pretty clear that Valencia is a more team-orientated player than Ronaldo's ever been, and he'll not try to dominate the play as much. If Valencia settles then it might get us back to a similar level of free flowing football that we had back in 06/07, when we replaced a quite selfish(in a good way, largely) player in Van Nistelrooy for a more team orientated player in Saha.

I don't think anyone could really argue that Saha was a better player than Van Nistelrooy, but he helped the team more. When Ronaldo/Van Nistelrooy got on the ball the first thing on their mind was often just to go for goal, Valencia and Saha can be that direct when they want to but often choose to find a team mate instead.

You can look at that as a strength or a weakness, I'll choose to look at it as a strength.

I see plenty of similarities to the 06/07 season and if next season goes as well as that season I'll be absolutely over the moon.
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The issue isn't signing Valencia - it's abou replacing Ronaldo and probably Tevez.

We only won the league by a small margin last year and as always the other teams will improve so United can't afford to stand still.

A considerable amount of money has come in, for a player whose goalscoring formed the backbone of the recent campaigns - whichever way you look at it Valencia won't be able to fill those boots.

United need to spend, to bring in some young players and build another team cabable of success.
 
aslong as United remain competitive for all trophies I will be ok, if we only need Valencia for this then so be it

United have way too big a mountain of debt to have a "transitional" or a "rebuilding" phase at the moment. Especially when we don't know how much longer we have with SAF managing the club...
 
Sultan said:
SAF's comments suggesting Wellbeck will be in the party to South Africa is a pointer that he'll be given a chance to stake his claim.
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Not to mention his comments about not selling Real a virus...

Not everything that Fergie says is a declaration of intent. And sometimes circumstances change.
 
Count Duckula said:
Everyone seems to be saying that building the team around Ronaldo was a bad thing and it's good we're not doing anymore, and yet then claiming with a straight face that we should instead build the team around Rooney. Why would building the team around Rooney be any better than building it around Ronaldo?
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Because one's team-orientated and the other likes to dominate the play a bit too much?
 
Sultan said:
Taunt me all my caf life if I get this wrong.

I reckon Wellbeck will be as good if not better than Tevez in 12/18 months if he's not held back by a new signing.
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I agree (And for sincher's purpose i'll elaborate)

The comparisons of "Kanu with pace" is so accurate it's scary, he reminds me so much of when Kanu was at his best with Arsenal.

I'm excited for his prospects, as well as Pettruci
 
Unless you are Real Madrid, long term success is achieved by having a mix of proven quality with experience and younger less experienced players (either bought or 'home grown') with potential and talent. Having too many of either sort is detrimental to the on the field success of a club. Every man and his dog can see that Arsenal have bags of talented youth players (and even with giving them a chance to succeed), but having no experienced players has meant that Arsenal have been trophyless for a few years.

If we only sign Valenica, we are in danger of becoming a team too reliant on youngsters, who as talented as they are, have yet to prove (relatively) anything. I'm amazed to think that anybody genuinely believes that Ronaldo/Tevez can be replaced by Valencia. Even pipe dreams like Aguero and Benzema wouldn't necessarily emulate Ronaldo's success. In relation to the "struggle" thread, if United to buy well, then there are a LOT of 'ifs' that would have to come to fruition for us not to be affected by Ronaldo's, and to a lesser etxtent, Tevez's departures.

Add in the stalwarts of Giggs/Scholes/Neville/Van Der Saar who are not just'getting older'-all 4 could likely retire at the end of next season. And when they do play, they are almost certain to do so at a lesser level than we have become used to.

Sound 'doom and gloom' but I am sincerely worried. He's HOPING that SAF can do it as he has done in the past.
 
CnutOfAllCnuts said:
No, as it means that players like Welbeck and Macheda will be given a proper chance.

Excited about the prospect of a first team squad with youngsters like the twins, Evans, Gibson, Welbeck and Macheda.
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no disrespect to your opinion but we may not win the league this season with those guys in first team. They are great squad players, their development will be managed by SAF but on the biggest level europe we would come up short.

We have sold the best player in the world we need a world class player to replace him.

We have also sold a world class striker in tevez, and we need a striker to replace him.


If we fail to replace these guys it will be tough, in SAF i trust
 
Brwned said:
Because one's team-orientated and the other likes to dominate the play a bit too much?
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Ronaldo never liked to dominate play a bit too much. We are the ones instead who buillt our play around him. It can be said that it has been a constant flaw of Fergie sides. With the exception of the class of 1999, which was built around deadly unity.


i'm hoping the next side we build is more like the '99 one, not reliant or built around any one player.
 
I'll be surprised if we only sign Valencia.

Why?

We are going to have more than £80m to spend (Ronaldo and Campbell). I know we didn't make huge transfer in the past, when some of our most important players left the club (1995, 2003 or 2006). However, we may expect something more than only Valencia. I'm not saying 'Let's buy Ribery, Villa, Ibrahimovic and Torres'. I'm saying we should make an offer for Huntelaar and Costa.

We'll have a youngster who's not less promising than Ronaldo was in 2003. We'll have a winger, who's proved in Premier League. We'll have a good striker, who'll play definitely more than in his current club and may guarantee us many goals.

Fergie. We don't expect transfers in Madrid-style. We expect some good players, who may become better players AT Old Trafford.
 
Anderson Searl said:
I agree (And for sincher's purpose i'll elaborate)

The comparisons of "Kanu with pace" is so accurate it's scary, he reminds me so much of when Kanu was at his best with Arsenal.
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Indeed. What has amazed me the most is he has displayed all the attributes Kanu had as youngster. A top notch football brain, effortless dribbling skills and an eye for goal. Best of all he has pace. Honestly I'm with Sultan on this. Welbeck if he doiens't get injury problems will be a bonafide star!
 
Sultan said:
Taunt me all my caf life if I get this wrong.

I reckon Wellbeck will be as good if not better than Tevez in 12/18 months if he's not held back by a new signing.
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as a player or a goalscorer?

not hard to beat either, given opportunity

Goalscorer? Tevez scored only 5 league goals last season. 15 in all competitions? 5 of those came in one match against a very shit Blackburn side.

Skill? Tevez doesn't have the best of touches, the ball generally bounces off him and he scurries after it. Wellbeck is naturally gifted.

Where Tevez wins is his attitude, his never say die spirit, chase down every ball. Wellbeck will never bring us that.

But he does have a big future, and i think, at United
 
Ekeke said:
Rooney tends to dominate the play more than Ronaldo. Ronaldo just shoots more.
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Rooney tends to orchestrate it, and keep the play flowing.

Ronaldo's generally the opposite, whether that's all down to him or mainly down to how our team's set up is another thing though.
 
Wouldn't it be funny if after all this we dont sign Valencia

I think the entire Caf would commit kermicide the way we're all thinking it as a done deal
 
golden_blunder said:
as a player or a goalscorer?

not hard to beat either, given opportunity

Goalscorer? Tevez scored only 5 league goals last season. 15 in all competitions? 5 of those came in one match against a very shit Blackburn side.

Skill? Tevez doesn't have the best of touches, the ball generally bounces off him and he scurries after it. Wellbeck is naturally gifted.

Where Tevez wins is his attitude, his never say die spirit, chase down every ball. Wellbeck will never bring us that.

But he does have a big future, and i think, at United
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The message I was trying to get across is we might a star staring in our eyes. We do not necessarily have to make a new signing to replace Tevez. In fact he could become an obstacle to something special we already possess.
 
golden_blunder said:
as a player or a goalscorer?

not hard to beat either, given opportunity

Goalscorer? Tevez scored only 5 league goals last season. 15 in all competitions? 5 of those came in one match against a very shit Blackburn side.

Skill? Tevez doesn't have the best of touches, the ball generally bounces off him and he scurries after it. Wellbeck is naturally gifted.

Where Tevez wins is his attitude, his never say die spirit, chase down every ball. Wellbeck will never bring us that.

But he does have a big future, and i think, at United
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just to be pinicity, it was 4. ;)

You are being bit harsh on Tevez there. :D

This season wasn't great by a long stretch, but he did fairly decent in his first year. IMO.
 
Sultan said:
The message I was trying to get across is we might a star staring in our eyes. We do not necessarily have to make a new signing to replace Tevez. In fact he could become an obstacle to something special we already possess.
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If it was just the case of Tevez, I would agree with you. But Ronaldo's departure means we need to get a whole lot more from our forward line, and in this situation I think having Welbeck as third choice striker is just too much. It's only one injury away from having him as a regular starter, at 18. And it's just two injuries away from having him and Macheda as our first choice foward line. Talented as they are, they are only 18, and even the mid-ninties generation had good combination of younger and older player in all parts of the pitch. Having two kids as your only cover is not just not enough, even if you're Hull City.

Only seven months ago Fergie refused to send Welbeck on loan, saying "He is too young. He is still that gangly lad who has not fully matured. We can work on his physique knowing we are not playing him all the time. He trains with the first-team squad all the time now but he can also go and enjoy himself playing for the youth team or the reserves."

I know what Fergie recently said about the World Cup and I also know I said he doesn't mean everything he says, but I think that's just a little too much to ask of Welbeck at this stage. You're not telling him 'you've got a chance to make a name for yourself', you're making him into a possibly make or break player for us. And I'm not at all sure that will be good for him. He shouldn't do this at 18.
 
Sultan said:
The message I was trying to get across is we might a star staring in our eyes. We do not necessarily have to make a new signing to replace Tevez. In fact he could become an obstacle to something special we already possess.
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Whilst it's certainly a good sentiment, in all likelihood, the odds are against him making the grade as a first team regular. But in his brief career, he does look to have the attributes to become a good player.

One side of me would really love to see the Da silva's, Macheda, Wellbeck, Possebon given plenty of starts but I can see our season (in terms of competitiveness) suffering because of it (BTW the other half wants Benzema, Aguero etc). Perhaps it's short sighted to only think of the present and, as you say, the more experienced players sometimes act as an obstacle to the development of youth. I guess it's a good job that it's SAF that will be deciding and not us on here!
 
I predict if only Valencia signs, a) the team will not do as well next season, b) spastics will be melting down every time they lose a game.

Obviously, losing two world class talents is not a good thing. Ronaldo, when he wants to be, is the perfect football player. I guarantee that next season at Real, he will score 30 goals easily. I also bet Tevez will become a City legend, if he goes there.

Replacing all that talent with just Valencia is stupid. Frankly, Valencia doesn't even look better than Park on a good day.

I think Rooney will step up his game, but who knows about Berba or the young players. Macheda looks special, but we haven't seen that much from Welbeck. Manucho is a bust at this point.

I will never count this team out as long as Fergie is there, but the talent level cannot degrade that much without reprecussions. Developing youth is good, but at a certain point, there has to be a superstar veteran to carry them, or else the most you can achieve is Arsenal's 4th place. Will Rooney, Berba, and the defence be enough?
 
ALX8725 said:
aslong as United remain competitive for all trophies I will be ok, if we only need Valencia for this then so be it

United have way too big a mountain of debt to have a "transitional" or a "rebuilding" phase at the moment. Especially when we don't know how much longer we have with SAF managing the club...
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Thats a big call to make.

The club remains profitable - even in the current climate, and as such is a viable business - as long as it remains succesful.

It's certainly a balancing act, investing required sums while not going over board. One thing is for certain, losing ground on Chelsea or Liverpool if they spend big won't be good for the clubs balance sheet, it's image or keep the fans happy.

The Ronaldo money, by all accounts seems like unexpected and the club probably weren't relying on it. It's a great opportunity to bring in some new talent to try and ensure the club dominates and generates even more cash.
 
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