Pray tell me, Why not?
Nani
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Pray tell me, Why not?
Don't be daft.
You seriously don't see the difference between someone in his third season at the club who was so poor last season he barely played a handful of games - and is currently an obvious source of huge frustration to his manager - and someone in his second season at the club who Fergie has consistently spoken about in the highest regard?
Or are you just picking a row for the sake of it?
I'm not picking a row for the sake of it but I think you are very harsh on Nani.
He's 22 years old. Berbatov is about 29 years old.
Nani is in his third season and sits mainly on the bench, Berbatov is in his fourth season as a regular and proven Premier League striker.
Nani is a winger and wingers usually need some time to become consistent.
I made a daft comment but I stand by it because you are intentionally ignoring the fact that Berbatov has to meet up much higher expectations due to factors like age, experience, etc. and that he's still far away from his best. I like his second season at United much more than his first one but I expect him to step up his game and he has to do some improving, even he himself wouldn't doubt that. Or are you actually thinking that Berbatov is already perfect at what he does?
Ok. One question, how exactly has Nani earned that frustration?
Isn't the reason to not develop even degrading from what he has done in his debut season, because he barely played a handful of games?
Berbatov aside, how many realistic chances has Nani got - not an occasional app here and there. He was a backup for Ronaldo and in his shadow 2 years in a row(his first 2 seasons in English football).
This season would be the first one which he'll be considered a first teamer. Can't see why it should be his last if he fails to perform.He's showing bags of potential in the rare chances he gets(sure he's frustrating in the others alright).
The fact remains, it looks incredibly unlikely that SAF will look to sell Berbatov at the end of this season. He could have done better last season but has started this season very well, clearly has the class needed to succeed and Fergie has had nothing but praise for him.
As for Nani, if he continues to visibly frustrate SAF as much as we saw at the weekend there's a very real chance he will end up losing patience over the course of this season. He has repeatedly subbed Nani off early, gave him very few games last season and his recent comments about Giggs finally providing some "intelligence" were clearly aimed in Nani's direction. His curent status in the club is not remotely comparable with Berbatov's.
I actually think Fergie might give Nani one final season even if he has another poor one this time round but it would be ridiculous to try and claim his United career is in no more danger than that of Berbatov.
Nani was excellent in his first season with the highest number of assists. Last season, we had to put up with meddling formations with Rooney shunted to the left and Ronaldo played as a striker and that's the main reason he played a handful of games, and not because he was frustrating,
Berbatov on the other hand is 28 pushing on, and has scored a meagre number of games and was dropped to the bench in spite of being a marquee signing last year and even Tevez was preferred as a sub before Berbatov. And when did Fergie have something bad to say about Nani? He has always backed him as for as I know.
I have nothing against Berbatov and I trust Fergie's judgement on him, And I'm so willing to do that for Nani. Nani will come good, like all the Fletcher haters realised that given time, a player with bundles of potential like Nani will be excellent. If you somehow think Berbatov is not on borrowed time, but Nani is, you need to seriously re-think. Or we can just ignore that it is one of your brain farts like Gibson over Anderson.
Nani is better than Valencia. He's creative while valencia is just a poor version of lennon head down and drive right.
The only true winger at the team right now.
The only true winger at the team right now.
Nani isn't United quality, never was, never will be. He has had more than enough chances from Fergie. His final ball, decision making, crossing, shooting, brain etc etc....are not up to scratch. You wouldn't see some of the crap he pulls in a Sunday league game. I have to agree with Pogue that it's has last season to step up or get shipped out. He is the most infuriating player I've seen in a United shirt for a long long time. It's all well and good sticking up for him but c'mon now....he is just so bad. For every 10 games he plays, he'll have 1 good one, 2 average one's and the rest he is just shit. I can see him being sold at the end of the season for about 5 million to a club like Sunderland.
For real?
Valencia>Nani every day of the week.
Valencia might be head down but at least he can beat his man and put in a half decent cross. Pace to burn as well.
Our best winger right now is a 35 year old....which doesn't say much for the rest of them.
For real?
Valencia>Nani every day of the week.
Valencia might be head down but at least he can beat his man and put in a half decent cross. Pace to burn as well.
Our best winger right now is a 35 year old....which doesn't say much for the rest of them.
A manager subbing an ineffective player in a football match with options available in the bench is not unheard of, you know?
Moreover, Fergie said, He was happy with Nani had provided in the game and he did well, but he wanted to give Giggs a run out because he gives something different.
I'm glad that you are not United's manager Pogue.
Nobody can ever know who Fergie has more patience with except the great man himself. Nobody can ever guess Fergie's next move or try get a sneak peak in the mind of the greatest manager ever.
He;s an average passer and an average dribbler. As soon as LB's figure out he has nothing else he will be just as marginalized like Lennon has been his whole career. Atleast park can be unpredictable.
Agreed on Giggs naturally.
Some are writing Valencia off already and he has barely played a dozen games. His passing and dribbling may be average for now but he still has his searing pace and the ability to swing in a good cross. He might be a bit one dimensional and predictable but it's still hard to mark him because he is so quick. If the left back shows him down the line, he can just cut inside and have the extra second to lay the ball off or motor through into the box. If he does get past his man or to the byeline which he does do quite frequently, well a LOT more frequently than Nani, then happy days.
Nani has had 2 whole seasons plus this one and people always say 'but he was our top assist maker in his first season' Big woop. It's to be expected from a winger and anyway assists don't equate to good performances. He has been poor his whole United career. His only saving grace is his ONE trick, of cutting inside and letting a pile driver go...Yeah he scores a few but the rest end up in row z or by the corner flag.
Don't even get me started on his crossing, decision making etc..It's just not good enough and certainly not good enough for United. He is still young and could progress but how much time does he need? He is a fringe player at most. As soon as Hargreaves (and don't laugh) Obertan get back, then his days will be numbered. Valencia will blossom into a much better player than him. Giggs is God and then the young Serb Ljalic will be around before we know it. I'm pretty sure this will be Nani's last season at United. I just don't see how he can turn it around.
Let's get this straight.
You are saying Nani is shit although you have already seen glimpses of his potential, but yet you are saying Valencia will surely be better than Nani because you have seen his dribbling and passing is average now?
Moreover, his days are numbered because Obertan might be back soon?
Out with it, you are just wumming around, aren't you?
Yes I'm saying Nani is shit. Anyone with a brain could tell you that.
Valencia has been just ok in his very short United career so far but the signs are there that he will make a top winger. He has more in his locker than Nani will ever have. People need to give him a chance. Nani has had numerous chances. Giggs is our best winger by a long way. Park isn't the may west but he has his uses defensively. Obertan is a dark horse. I've seen him play a fair few times and been aware of him for many years. He could be the real deal. I know it's too early to tell and I'll probably get slated for it but I couldn't care less. Nani will be gone this time next year.
No, no, no. For the 100th time, that's simply not true.
In the league, he was 4th best on the team (behind Rooney, Ronaldo, Tevez). In all competitions, 2nd (Rooney).
Ok maybe I was exaggerating a tad about the brain part.
Fergie has to come out and say that to be fair. What do you expect him to say? Sorry lad, you're crap, take a hike? If Nani doesn't take the finger out soon, that's exactly what Fergie will be saying next May. I'm still unsure as to why some are defending Nani as if he's some great player or even a great prospect. Tell me the last time he had 2 very good games in a row? or tell me the last time he had an amazing game? was it that Arsenal game 2 seasons ago? says it all really. He isn't good enough.
Actually, in Nani's defence (which doesn't really help my case) he did get the most assists that season (07/08) He got 14 to Rooney's 13.
Hmm, you seem to have calmed down now Jammy
I'm always calm thank you. I may not post here often but I'm no wum.
I just think Nani is shit and I'm sure there are plenty here who agree with me.
Fair play Jammy, but just because you think he's shit, he may not be shit. Or just because I'm patient with him for maybe a couple of season, there's no guarantee that he'll earn us another 80 Million
But I think the lad has enough time on his hands to perform and I hope he pulls up his socks, works on his decision making and deliver on his promise.
The league credits Nani with 6 that season, Rooney with 13 (and 7 each for Ron and Tevez). Stats for other competitions may be less authoritative, but Rooney definitely had at least one more in the CL, so 13 can't be right for a end-of-season tally.
If you're talking about orthodox (aka true) wingers, Valencia's play for us so far has been that to the letter. Valencia has played less than 10 competitive games for us and already you're calling him poor.
Fair play Jammy, but just because you think he's shit, he may not be shit. Or just because I'm patient with him for maybe a couple of season, there's no guarantee that he'll earn us another 80 Million
But I think the lad has enough time on his hands to perform and I hope he pulls up his socks, works on his decision making and deliver on his promise.
We just gotta wait and see I guess. That's the beauty of football, everyone has a different opinion. Anyway, I'll happily eat my hat if I'm wrong about Nani. I'm not one of these twats that wants him to do shit just so I can be proved right. Unfortunately in this case, I think I'll be right....
I'm sure I'll bump into you in this thread sometime soon
so basically you don't know for sure....
I do stats for another forum(so I won't link it) but I'm 100% positive Nani got more than Rooney that season.
Nani 14
Rooney 13
Giggs 9
Ronaldo 8
Tevez 7
Scholes 5
Brown 5
.....
.....
We just gotta wait and see I guess. That's the beauty of football, everyone has a different opinion. Anyway, I'll happily eat my hat if I'm wrong about Nani. I'm not one of these twats that wants him to do shit just so I can be proved right. Unfortunately in this case, I think I'll be right....
I'm sure I'll bump into you in this thread sometime soon
You owe me a tenner
Quoted for the pure stupidity of it, because it'll never be even slightly true even if Valencia doesn't improve one bit.
'Valencia's a poor man's Lennon'. Classic.
Nani:
25 starts in all competitions 4 goals 11/14 assists(according to different sources) in his debut season
16 apps, 3 goals, 6 assists in EPL only
23 starts in his 2nd season, much less(7) in Prem, 6 goals/3 assists in all competitions, 1 goal/2a in EPL only.
this year - 2 goals 1 assist in all comps and 1/1 in Prem in 6(4) outings.
Overall - in 27 starts(and 17 as a sub) he has scored 6 goals and has 18/14 assists.
Valencia in 82(+6-7 odd as a sub) apps in EPL Wigan and United has 7 goals and 5 assists.
Please do tell how Nani got more chances and has shown better signs that will be a top winger and "better than Nani ever will be"?
Are you saying Valencia right now is better than Nani? How did you arrive at that conclusion?
I think Nani is better than Valencia.
I thought him saying Valencia's a poor man's Lennon was stupid.
I thought him saying Valencia's a poor man's Lennon was stupid.
Nani is like the dyslexic Ronaldo.
I have a lot more faith in the potential of Valencia than Nani but I do feel sorry for the lad. He works hard and has speed and technique but just seems to lack that elusive football " brain " which determines effective decision making. I think the coaching staff are working like crazy to sort him out but I am not overly optimistic
I know for certain that it's misleading to say he led the team in assists, when he didn't have half as many in the league as our top...uh...assister. Nani was a very useful player for us that season, but let's not get carried away with numbers that mostly reflect the fact that he took corners. As we showed all last season and again the past few weeks, we can score from those without him.
By the way, why are you "100% positive" that you keep stats better than the league does? Because the league's official count contradicts your statement, if you're willing to admit that Rooney got ONE assist in other competitions - which I think is clear from the match report I hyperlinked.
Pretty post with all the stats etc... but Valencia played for Wigan so it can't really be compared. Nani has been playing with FAR better players over the last few seasons so obviously he will get more assists etc...
Overall or just so far this season?
I thought you knew your stuff...
Valencia will be a lot better than Nani this season. (not necessarily in terms of goals/assists but just better in terms of contribution and non-shitness)
I'd bet anything on it.
Incidentally these two are closer in age than most think - Valencia is 16 months older.
This is Valencia's 4th season in England - Nani's 3rd. Valencia has a good deal more experience than Nani at club level, having logged almost 200 matches to Nani's 100. He had the benefit of playing two full seasons in Ecuador, being loaned out by Villareal to teams that gave him time on the pitch (Recreativo, Wigan), then being purchased by a team (Wigan) where he outclassed the competition for his place. Though both are established internationals, nearly all of Valencia's 39 Ecuador caps have been starts, while most of Nani's 26 appearances for Portugal have been as a sub.
This is Valencia's 4th season in England - Nani's 3rd. Valencia has a good deal more experience than Nani at club level, having logged almost 200 matches to Nani's 100. He had the benefit of playing two full seasons in Ecuador, being loaned out by Villareal to teams that gave him time on the pitch (Recreativo, Wigan), then being purchased by a team (Wigan) where he outclassed the competition for his place. Though both are established internationals, nearly all of Valencia's 39 Ecuador caps have been starts, while most of Nani's 26 appearances for Portugal have been as a sub.
Both, although you could argue I've not seen enough of him at Wigan and he hasn't played enough for us to make either judgement.
ok, the camp seems pretty split on nani.
here´s the question........
would you keep him here next season or would you replace him with someone else??
here´s the question........
would you keep him here next season or would you replace him with someone else??
Depends really. How much will he have contributed when the season ends? If he has had a good season I see no problem with sticking with him.
I don't think they both are alike tbh. Their style is quite quite different.