PARK-A true unsung hero

The reason Park works so well with us is because we don't have anyone who makes the simple link up passes that he does. He grabs the ball, picks up his head and finds the simple pass. He's perfect in the middle because he links up with Rooney and the wingers.

Previously we had Carrick or Anderson there and they did Hollywood passes. Or we had two strikers and we'd focus on forcing it through the middle. Now we have a fluid way of playing that comes through Park.
 
City look stupidly unbalanced and could use a player like Park who knows when to keep things simple, and how to contribute defensively, I think.

Benitez just likes his players to be able to take very specific requirements on board, and Park does that brilliantly. Plus he offers something very different to Kuyt, so I'd stick him on the opposing wing.
 
Benitez has his own Park in Dirk Kuyt. And he's actually more productive than Park so it's not certain he'd start there.

Where would you play Park at City? I wouldn't put him ahead of Bellamy or Johnson. Petrov would probably get in ahead of him too.

To be fair, Liverpool's strength is depth is lacking, I'm sure Rafa would find him a useful squad player since only Kuyt and Bennyoun do anything on the wing, not sure whether Maxi is proving to be a similar waste of money to Reira and Babel. Greater priority needs to be placed upon covering Gerrard and Torres and trying to integrate Aqualani into the team.

In terms of Man City, they do lack natural width Shaun Wright Phillips aside, so I'm sure if they can work out a sensible 4-4-2 role for him in the Mancini system. Problem is the club is driven by individuals rather than the team. Neither Bellamy nor Johnson would offer the same level of energy and professionalism.
 
Park is a great player who we should try and keep for his entire career at Unites.

Unsung is right - he works harder than anyone bar Rooney and is invaluable in linking the play down either flank.

If he had a little more speed he'd be phenomenal, as it is, he's merely fecking fantastic.
 
Christ, why do you need absolutely everything spelt out to you, again and again and again?

I don't need it spelling out again and again Pogue. I asked you once and you dodged the question, then pretended you'd answered it and are now getting sand in your vagina because I asked you to answer the question that you didn't answer to begin with. All that aggression and there wasn't even any spilt milk to cry over. You seem to invent these problems and then talk down to the person you're debating with and insist that the problem you created is somehow down to their stupidity, when in fact it's down to your own arrogance and your own condescending attitude and a failure to read and respond to simple posts.

Now to go through your list. This should be fun. No doubt I'll be defending myself against points I've never made, points I've already posted contradicting opinions on and points that have no relevance to the topic at hand. Here goes...

There's not a club in Europe with a squad consisting entirely of players who would all "make the strongest lineup of Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, City, Liverpool or even Villa"

I have never claimed there is. Nor have I alluded to it. What I said was if Park left United to pursue guaranteed first team football he'd end up at a club like Everton because all of the teams named above have starting 11's that he'd struggle to break into. Why do you consistently and intentionally misinterpret posts to try and make your argument look better. It's so tedious.

Unlike most of the lesser known squad players at other big clubs, Park is important enough to United that he is one of the first names on the team-sheet in all our CL games

I'm not sure what relevance this has. To anything. I have acknowledged park's importance on the European stage countless times. To quote someone else, "Did none of those posts register with you?":confused:

Befor he signed for United, Park was a hugely important player for a PSV side that went on a fantastic run in the CL - which will be one of the main reasons SAF signed him

That reminds me of part of a post i made last night:

He was signed as a winger. I was delighted when we signed Park because in the previous seasons Champions League I'd seen him almost single handedly take Milan apart. If one or two other PSV players played like him they would have gone through, but as it happened they were very unlucky to go out on the away goals rule.

Are you just re-writing my posts? I don't really understand your point here. It doesn't counter anything I've said or have any relevance.

United's record in the CL since Park joined us is exceptional. Arguably better than any other club in Europe? (can't be arsed checking stats but we've got to be fecking close)

Again, what's the point here? How many times do I have to acknowledge his role in Europe before you stop repeating it back to me? It's getting a bit boring Pogue.

The Champion's League is the competition in which the very best clubs in Europe compete against each other.

Agreed. But again what's the relevance? :confused:

Now, take a moment to digest all of that. feck it, take several.

I don't need any time to digest my own opinions that are being repeated back to me in a bizarre fashion. I know what I wrote, because I wrote it.

Bearing what you've just read in mind, why do you still keep crapping on about Park as though he's some sort of average footballer who will find his level at a mid-table Premier League club?

Bearing in mind what I've just read, I'm wondering if you've quoted the wrong post because none of it really goes anywhere to countering anything I've said. In fact most of it is just regurgitating parts of posts that I've already posted myself.

I mean, seriously, think about it for feck's sake...

Right. OK. :wenger:
 
To be fair, Liverpool's strength is depth is lacking, I'm sure Rafa would find him a useful squad player since only Kuyt and Bennyoun do anything on the wing, not sure whether Maxi is proving to be a similar waste of money to Reira and Babel. Greater priority needs to be placed upon covering Gerrard and Torres and trying to integrate Aqualani into the team.

In terms of Man City, they do lack natural width Shaun Wright Phillips aside, so I'm sure if they can work out a sensible 4-4-2 role for him in the Mancini system. Problem is the club is driven by individuals rather than the team. Neither Bellamy nor Johnson would offer the same level of energy and professionalism.

He is a useful squad player, but that's completely beside the point. I was asking which teams he'd be guaranteed a starting place at.
 
blah blah... repeating stuff... blah...

feck me, it's like pulling teeth.

You either genuinely fail to grasp how hard it is to find a player who can consistently perform at that level in Europe - which is why Park is playing for a club at United and not a club like Everton - or you're deliberately ignoring it.

Or you're a bit thick.

One of the three anyway. Possibly two.
 
He is a useful squad player, but that's completely beside the point. I was asking which teams he'd be guaranteed a starting place at.

I would say that other than Rooney, Evra, Ferdinand, Vidic and Van der Sar, the vast majority of United players are not guaranteed a starting place in their own team. Yes players like Valencia, Fletcher, Carrick etc. are prefered but are still "squad players", as they're not always going to be guaranteed to start each game. Even Edwin somewhat fits under the heading these days.
 
feck me, it's like pulling teeth.

You either genuinely fail to grasp how hard it is to find a player who can consistently perform at that level in Europe - which is why Park is playing for a club at United and not a club like Everton - or you're deliberately ignoring it.

Or you're a bit thick.

One of the three anyway. Possibly two.

One of the most ironic posts on the entire internet. Your post basically repeated several points I've already made myself in a bizarre attempt at countering separate points I've made and several that I've never made, while at the same time failing to add anything to the debate that hasn't already been said.
 
One of the most ironic posts on the entire internet. Your post basically repeated several points I've already made myself in a bizarre attempt at countering separate points I've made and several that I've never made, while at the same time failing to add anything to the debate that hasn't already been said.

Unbelievable.

feck me, it's like pulling teeth.

You either genuinely fail to grasp how hard it is to find a player who can consistently perform at that level in Europe - which is why Park is playing for a club at United and not a club like Everton - or you're deliberately ignoring it.

Or you're a bit thick.

One of the three anyway. Possibly two.

...
 
Your post basically repeated several points I've already made myself in a bizarre attempt at countering separate points I've made and several that I've never made, while at the same time failing to add anything to the debate that hasn't already been said.

I can't be arsed reading any of the rest of this debate, but I think you've just summed up the caf perfectly in one paragraph!:lol:
 
Unbelievable.



...

It is unbelievable isn't it... how often I have to praise his European performances before you stop telling me how good he is in Europe. You're becoming a tad boring Pogue. Put a different song on.
 
I don't see why the argument's still going on, you both think he's a valuable squad player.

Logan just happens to focus on his limitations, Pogue on his benefits.

There's nothing more to it.
 
And if you're going to reply to posts, well stop backtracking. You stated that a few good games doesn't make a great player, which is indeed why we did sign him...

You are an idiot really

I haven't backtracked. And a few good games DOESN'T make a great player. :confused:

And yet another one who resorts to name calling. Do you know duplicate accounts are against the rules Pogue?
 
I don't see why the argument's still going on, you both think he's a valuable squad player.

Logan just happens to focus on his limitations, Pogue on his benefits.

There's nothing more to it.

That is precisely why the argument is still going on. Pogue has ignored my repeated assertions that I value Park as a good squad player and instead chosen to repeat my own posts back to me in a strange attempt to make me look wrong. It's really quite bizarre.
 
At the end of the day, its a bit like the Makelele issue. Some rated him highly and some simply treats him as a player that can only pass sideways. We all know what happen to Real Madrid's and Chelsea's fortures when he switched clubs. Bottomline, there are intangible qualities which can be so invaluable to a team's successes.
 
Well the way you go on about him makes it seem like you don't think he's valuable squad player, so maybe he just missed it.

If you hadn't have said those exact words I'd have thought you'd rather Park didn't play for United.

Good goal(or was it a failed cross?), chased the ball well and pressed Milan. Back to his usual self late on. Awful touch. Awful passing. Awful player.

Plays well about 5 games a season and somehow gets people on his side because he runs around a lot(slow as feck may I add).

Awful players aren't good enough for United.
 
Park is a great player who we should try and keep for his entire career at Unites.

Unsung is right - he works harder than anyone bar Rooney and is invaluable in linking the play down either flank.

If he had a little more speed he'd be phenomenal, as it is, he's merely fecking fantastic.

Bang on the money.

This thread is a serious embarassment to the caf.
 
That is precisely why the argument is still going on. Pogue has ignored my repeated assertions that I value Park as a good squad player and instead chosen to repeat my own posts back to me in a strange attempt to make me look wrong. It's really quite bizarre.

The argument is still going on because anyone who comes out with shit like this;

Good goal(or was it a failed cross?), chased the ball well and pressed Milan. Back to his usual self late on. Awful touch. Awful passing. Awful player.

Plays well about 5 games a season and somehow gets people on his side because he runs around a lot(slow as feck may I add).

;immediately after a performance like Park put in the other night is either desperately seeking attention or so bad at judging a player it was always gonna take several pages to hammer some sense into them.

We do seem to be making some progress though.
 
You're completely under-rating his technical ability. You've said he's poor at passing, yet the criticism you level at him is that he doesn't try the defence splitting passes enough.

He is very good at quick one-two link up play in attack, and can loft curling balls over the top of the defensive line for Valencia or Rooney to run onto. No one here is saying that he's our best winger, or better than Valencia at crossing, or as skilful as Nani. But you're under-rating his attributes because they're not among his strongest.

He does many things at a good level, and has some parts of his game that are fantastic. I don't understand how you can't see that he's technically adept.
 
Well the way you go on about him makes it seem like you don't think he's valuable squad player, so maybe he just missed it.

If you hadn't have said those exact words I'd have thought you'd rather Park didn't play for United.



Awful players aren't good enough for United.

That was a disgraceful post from Logan. He makes such a venomous post like that and then expects everyone to see his point of view when he starts making more conservative posts, as if that somehow justifies his earlier views.
 
Yeah, maybe he was just pissed?

I'm pretty sure I was quite merry at the point.
 
The argument is still going on because anyone who comes out with shit like this;



;immediately after a performance like Park put in the other night is either desperately seeking attention or will take a lot of hard work to hammer some sense into.

That post has nothing to do with your failed posts today Pogue, and everything to do with your inability to form a logical argument without resorting to name calling and rewriting a person's own posts to throw back at them. I'm really quite confused at what you were trying to do. :confused:

You still haven't relied properly to post #245 by the way. I wonder why? :smirk:

Misdirection seems to be one of your tactics on here.
 
Yeah, maybe he was just pissed?

I'm pretty sure I was quite merry at the point.

I was slightly inebriated and went over the top. I believe my subsequent posts have clarified my feelings on park, even if Pogue refuses/is unable to see it.
 
The argument is still going on because anyone who comes out with shit like this immediately after a performance like Park put in the other night is either desperately seeking attention or so bad at judging a player it was always gonna take several pages to hammer some sense into them.

This one takes the biscuit.

He's just a headless chicken, a shite player, not United standard, period.
 
And that's about it.

It's a bit of a shame that being pissed makes you more critical of United players, and quite unusual I feel, but there you go.
 
That post has nothing to do with your failed posts today Pogue, and everything to do with your inability to form a logical argument without resorting to name calling and rewriting a person's own posts to throw back at them. I'm really quite confused at what you were trying to do. :confused:

You still haven't relied properly to post #245 by the way. I wonder why? :smirk:

Misdirection seems to be one of your tactics on here.

Reply?

To that load of old bollox?

Is there even a question, or a point in there anywhere?

fecked if I can find one.
 
Reply?

To that load of old bollox?

Is there even a question, or a point in there anywhere?

fecked if I can find one.

Those were my feelings too Pogue, but I gave it a go just to show how silly your post was. There's a certain irony that I have to keep telling you that all you did was repeat my posts. You made no (relevant) points of your own and generally didn't make much sense.

I also love the way you cherrypick which parts of posts you want to reply to and ignore the rest that you have no answer for. :lol:

Have a read through it again and you might become a little clearer. Or just call me names and swear a bit more. Whichever works for you.
 
Ah, I remember mid-february. Feckin great player he was... we'd be invincible if he still played for us...:drool:

We got Owen Goal to replace him, though he has gone missing recently, could do with him coming back into some form, otherwise we might have to find a replacement for him.

Although speaking of Owen Goal - I do think Park probably doesn't like him. Two clear chances of getting his name on the score sheet, Owen Goal has come in and taken the ball off and scored, Hull and Le Arse. Imagine - he would have had 2 goals against them .... not bad for a technically poor player against the might of technical ability personified.
 
One of our best midfielders. Great at creating space. Great at short intricate passing. And has found his scoring boots again!
 
One of our best midfielders. Great at creating space. Great at short intricate passing. And has found his scoring boots again!

Lockbox in a secret compartment beneath Ronaldo's old locker. They found Rooney's in the compartment above it - everyone was so happy that no one thought to look any deeper.
 
So basically you took my opinion on two completely different types of player, and used it to make a wild assumption, whilst completely ignoring the repeated assertion by me that Park is a very good squad player. Is that about right?
Firstly - you were the one who linked a discussion on Nani with your views on Park.

It took a lot of prompting by others before you reluctantly admitted Park might be useful as a 'squad' player. So even when pushed into making some mildly positive remarks about him you adopt the 'damning with faint praise' approach.

As well as being a very useful squad member, Park has a combination of abilities that make him almost singularly valuable in putting together a particular team to take the field. You underestimate his creative/attacking potential because it isn't flashy enough for you - you downplay his defensive and continuity-providing worth to the team on the pitch (I suggest because of your attraction to 'surface' elements).

I think, given that very good cases have been made that Park is a much better all-round player than you will admit, that you just can't bring yourself to admit it because you only really value something different. (Or maybe it's through some other deficiency.) :D
 
Park absolutely deserves the praise he gets. He is a combative, hard working, and energetic player. He isn't the most technically gifted but guess what? We have technically gifted players that cannot, or will not do what Park does for us. Especially with Hargreaves being out and likely done, Park is all the more important for us in that role.

If I had to take a team of just Ronaldo or Park, I'd pick the team of JI SUNGS every single time.
 
Park absolutely deserves the praise he gets. He is a combative, hard working, and energetic player. He isn't the most technically gifted but guess what? We have technically gifted players that cannot, or will not do what Park does for us. Especially with Hargreaves being out and likely done, Park is all the more important for us in that role.

If I had to take a team of just Ronaldo or Park, I'd pick the team of JI SUNGS every single time.

I'd like to see those two teams play each other. I reckon the Ji Sungs would kick arse.

They'd have to try not to concede any corners, mind you.
 
I haven't ignored his European performances at all. On the contrary they are his biggest redeeming quality and I have stated this several times.

Regardless, a few good European games a season does not a great player make. He rarely sets the league alight and definitely not on a consistent basis.

If you were to think of a club where he'd make the strongest starting 11 for most league games you'd have to look a fair bit down the league table.

You're awfully daft. Makes me wonder if you've ever played a sport at even a moderate level. The term role player is clearly not in your tool box. Nor is your understanding of what it entails or what it means.

Here is a tip. It is free, I am being generous. To have a successful club, you need people who score, and people who work. Park is a workhorse. He makes everyone around him look better even though he rarely garners any of the accolades himself. That is because he isn't a guy who scores often and he isn't flashy. He puts his nose to the grind stone and gets the job done. He confounds other teams attacking play and while he has a fairly heavy first touch he is extremely clever in his ability to find space and anticipate where he should be to keep us chugging forward.

Any team would be so lucky to have a player like Park, a selfless hard working servant to the club, someone who will subordinate their own ego for the success of the team as a whole.

You say Park is mid table quality at best? You'd have better served your own pretentious ego by staying off the football forums and keeping your mouth shut, all you have done is remove all doubt about your intelligence, or lack thereof.

Park would be a star at a mid table club and is good enough to warrant a FIRST team role for Manchester, fecking, United in all of our biggest and most important matches.
 
I'd like to see those two teams play each other. I reckon the Ji Sungs would kick arse.

They'd have to try not to concede any corners, mind you.

Game would end in the first few minutes anyway. One Ronaldo will be doing bunch of step overs and another will come nick it off him and start his moves ... soon enough they'll all be at each others throats cause they are the show. Ref will have to call the match.