Newcastle fleece Liverpool for Carroll

Brwned said:
I feel like I've not seen enough of Carroll if people are saying this because he's never looked to have half the talent Rooney had. His goal record's fantastic but it's too early to judge just how prolific he is as we've seen others match his output initially but eventually show their true quality, but even considering it is a true reflection of his prowess there has to be more to his game than that to be compared to Rooney, who was at that point recognised as a guaranteed star in the making.

His variety of goals is promising if not outstanding - two outside the box finishes, four headers (three set pieces), and then 5 inside the box finishes. Aside of that I don't really see any quality close to that level, his touch is reasonably tidy, he's got a decent strike from range and he's a more than competent passer but I've not seen a lot more than that. Granted there's not a lot of time to show off your skill in the build-up in such a direct and powerful team, but that works the other way in the sense that he may not be as suited to the more sophisticated and possession-dominant attacking football that you expect at a top club.

We've seen it perfectly demonstrated by Drogba how damaging raw physicality can be, but there's so much more to his game than I've yet seen from Carroll (even considering he continues his steep improvement).
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I'm inclined to say this will turn out to be a good buy in years to come. Caroll is technically better than what most give him credit for. He can run at players, and has a very good touch on him. Let's say he's akin more towards Drogba than Heskey. He isn't anywhere close to how good a teenage Rooney was, though. But few, if any, are. Eventually, as it was with Rooney, injuries and how he progresses over the years will be vital.

Obviously, it is a gamble. But one which seems more likely to pay off. Even if it doesn't work out, he should have a fairly decent resale value due to his nationality.
 
Sultan said:
Good point.

If United showed interest in Carroll, I know I would have been disappointed at any price. Had they spent anywhere in the region of 35 Million I'd have said Gill was mentally disturbed.
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It's one thing to argue the case now it's happened and it can't be undone, but a month or two ago I was laughing at posters suggesting we should be in for Carroll, mostly because of his complete inexperience, and that was as you said, for any price. When you take into account the figure, well, it's inexcusable. Carroll is not worth that much money, not in any circumstance and Liverpool should have recognized that and left him alone.

People will talk about inflation, taking punts on young English players full of potential, but the fact is no-one, no-one would have entertained this transfer, for that fee, so why is it suddenly understandable for them to pay that price? Loads of pundits saying it's similar to Rooney when he came, but it isn't, at all. Carroll was never, has never, been touted as the future of anything, but he was simply recognized has an emerging talent after a good start to the Premier League, which makes it all the more baffling.
 
AttackingFlair said:
He's more than justified his fee and looks like a bargain now compared to some of these insane fees in today's inflated market.

Let's put this into perspective..

James Milner 28m
Darren Bent 24m
Andy Carroll 35m
SWP 25m

..

Wayne Rooney 27m
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Thats like saying Cantona was a bargain because he was only just over a million.

Ignore it if you like but football has changed. At the time United paid nigh on £30 million for an 18 year old kid, much hyped but with no guarantee's he'd ever become a top player. He was (and might still be) the most expensive teenager in football and I didn't see people suggesting we'd been ripped off. United were consistently outspending the other clubs and have set transfer records year on year - look at Roy Keane for £3 million a couple of years after Forest paid next to nothing for him from non league irish football.

Besides that - City have inflated the market in the PL since then.

Transfer fees are always dependant on a lot of factors - length of contract, clubs relative buying power, but for me it largely doesn't matter what a player costs if he's a success - and Carroll seems to have the tools to be a very good player.
 
ha ha, are some posters actually making a case for Carroll to be worth 35m? ha ha ha

wow, just wow.

Carroll is very similar to Carlton Cole at the same age.

Claudio Ranieri, the then manager of Chelsea, described Cole as being the best young player that he had ever coached, saying, "I've never coached a young player like Carlton. He's fantastic even though he hasn't really started his career yet. He has a very long contract, and, in my opinion, a very big future at Chelsea."
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RedRover said:
Thats like saying Cantona was a bargain because he was only just over a million.

Ignore it if you like but football has changed. At the time United paid nigh on £30 million for an 18 year old kid, much hyped but with no guarantee's he'd ever become a top player. He was (and might still be) the most expensive teenager in football and I didn't see people suggesting we'd been ripped off. United were consistently outspending the other clubs and have set transfer records year on year - look at Roy Keane for £3 million a couple of years after Forest paid next to nothing for him from non league irish football.

Besides that - City have inflated the market in the PL since then.

Transfer fees are always dependant on a lot of factors - length of contract, clubs relative buying power, but for me it largely doesn't matter what a player costs if he's a success - and Carroll seems to have the tools to be a very good player.
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He arguably already was.
 
AttackingFlair said:
Means feck all. Every pundit was raving about James Milner and he went for £28m and has shown himself to be an average player, who went for an incredible amount of money.
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Well personally, I tend to think people who have played the game tend to know what they're on about to a greater or lesser extent, obviously some more than others but teh point remains.

The consensus seems to be that he's a very good player. Suspect if he'd signed for United the majority of posters on here would also concur.
 
Claudio Ranieri, the then manager of Chelsea, described Cole as being the best young player that he had ever coached, saying, "I've never coached a young player like Carlton. He's fantastic even though he hasn't really started his career yet. He has a very long contract, and, in my opinion, a very big future at Chelsea."
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The same Ranieri that played Sam Della Bonna and Enrique De Lucas in centre midfield for the best part of a whole season

No but to be fair I do remember that Cole was highly regarded at Chelsea when he broke through but Carroll has shown far more than Cole had done at the same age but the money is just crazy.
 
RedRover said:
What? Having had a decent 18 months with Everton? Few brilliant goals against good teams?

No different to people shouting about how Carroll "hasn't proved himself yet".
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So wrong. He'd just been the best young player at the European Championships, he was the first name on the teamsheet for England. Andy Carroll has been in the squad once I think?
 
Robbie Boy said:
The same Ranieri that played Sam Della Bonna and Enrique De Lucas in centre midfield for the best part of a whole season
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The same Ranieri that clinched the CL place that changed the entire history of Chelsea Football Club, yeah him.

And it wasn't just him bigging up Cole, they were all at it.

Robbie Boy said:
No but to be fair I do remember that Cole was highly regarded at Chelsea when he broke through but Carroll has shown far more than Cole had done at the same age but the money is just crazy.
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FAR more? FAR more?

He's played half a season in the Prem.
 
Sharky7 said:
The same Ranieri that clinched the CL place that changed the entire history of Chelsea Football Club, yeah him.

And it wasn't just him bigging up Cole, they were all at it.



FAR more? FAR more?

He's played half a season in the Prem.
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Re read what I wrote and come back to me yeah
 
sglowrider said:
Its just boggles the mind.. Andy Carroll is the world's 8th most expensive player!:nervous::rolleyes::rolleyes:
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That's the problem with transfer windows. People panic because they need to replace players in a limited time and the selling club can smell the desperation and ramp the price up.
 
A Newcastle United fanzine editor claims Andy Carroll was forced into agreeing to a club-record 35 million-pound transfer to Liverpool.

Carroll, 22, was sold by hometown club Newcastle to English Premier League rivals Liverpool on Monday, causing widespread anger among fans of the St James’ Park outfit.

And Toontalk editor Steve Wraith has now suggested that crowd favourite Carroll, who signed a new five-year contract in October, was pushed into agreeing to the switch to Anfield.

At 2.37pm GMT on transfer deadline day, Carroll reportedly sent Wraith a text message saying he was ‘not going anywhere’.

But by 5pm, Carroll told Wraith: “They have kind of said we don’t want u but want me to say I wanna go. And I said I don’t want to go.”

Newcastle claim they accepted Liverpool’s offer after receiving a transfer request from Carroll, but the striker disagreed with their version of events.

“No I didn’t that’s what I mean that’s what they wanted me to do and I said no,” he told Wraith.

“They said they wanted to accept it.”

Wraith then asked Carroll if had no choice but to sign for Liverpool, to which he replied: “Looks like it.”

Carroll also provided Wraith with a message for the Newcastle fans: “They said they wanted the money. Gutted to be leaving Newcastle but I was kind of pushed out the door.”

“Gutted to be leaving my home club but I was practically told to go. Didn’t want to leave that’s why I signed a five-year deal.”

Carroll, who is recovering from a thigh injury, will inherit the number nine shirt previously worn by Fernando Torres at Anfield.

Torres left Liverpool for Premier League champions Chelsea on Monday in a British-record 50 million-pound move.


Slavery
 
Now Pardew is trying to have a go:

Alan Pardew has rejected Andy Carroll's claim that he was forced out of Newcastle by claiming that the striker asked to leave yesterday if his contract - only renewed in October - wasn't improved
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I think under the circumstances Carroll had EVERY right to ask for a new improved deal.
 
Hard to believe that this is the same player I watched playing for Newcastle in a dire 0-0 draw with 10 man Leicester City at the Walkers last year.

Ronaldo
Ibrahimovic
Kaka
Torres
Zidane
Figo
Crespo
............Carroll ???

Mental mental chicken oriental :wenger:
 
Sharky7 said:
Re-read it, you definitely wrote that Carroll has shown FAR more than Cole at the same age.

I'll ask again, FAR more? after half a season in the Prem?
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Ok well lets start at the start, the line about Ranieri was clearly a bit of fun, but you appear to be a very serious individual so I will take note of that next time and make sure I keep any future replies to you on a strictly serious level and then we can all be happy.

Now the second point, I never said it was just Ranieri that rated Cole when he broke through as you very wrongly mis-quoted me on, but lets not worry as that can happen when you don't read things properly. What I said was in fact "no to be fair I do remember that Cole was highly regarded at Chelsea when he broke though"

Now third point, yes I used the word far because I believe that at the same age Carroll has shown far more than Cole had a that age. How so you say? Well Carroll has already amassed over 90 league appearances in professional football with an average of around one goal every three games, yes most of that was at Championship level but not a bad record huh. By that age Carlton Cole had become something of a 'dishwasher' player with loans here there and everywhere and never exactly set the world alight. Carroll has already made his debut at International level whereas it took Cole until he was 25. Carroll is a far better player at this age than Cole was and much more highly rated than Cole ever was. Who will have the more successful career of the two? I would have to go with Carroll, in my opinion anyway.

Now my personal opinions on the transfer are that it was a shockingly over inflated price to pay.
 
Robbie Boy said:
Ok well lets start at the start, the line about Ranieri was clearly a bit of fun, but you appear to be a very serious individual so I will take note of that next time and make sure I keep any future replies to you on a strictly serious level and then we can all be happy.

Now the second point, I never said it was just Ranieri that rated Cole when he broke through as you very wrongly mis-quoted me on, but lets not worry as that can happen when you don't read things properly. What I said was in fact "no to be fair I do remember that Cole was highly regarded at Chelsea when he broke though"

Now third point, yes I used the word far because I believe that at the same age Carroll has shown far more than Cole had a that age. How so you say? Well Carroll has already amassed over 90 league appearances in professional football with an average of around one goal every three games, yes most of that was at Championship level but not a bad record huh. By that age Carlton Cole had become something of a 'dishwasher' player with loans here there and everywhere and never exactly set the world alight. Carroll has already made his debut at International level whereas it took Cole until he was 25. Carroll is a far better player at this age than Cole was and much more highly rated than Cole ever was. Who will have the more successful career of the two? I would have to go with Carroll, in my opinion anyway.

Now my personal opinions on the transfer are that it was a shockingly over inflated price to pay.
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Good post.
 
I think Carroll along with Suarez will be judged on how they do next season. All that remains for Liverpool this season is the Europa League as it will be a huge ask for them to finish anywhere near the top 4 this season.

Liverpool need to spend wisely in the summer on other area's of their squad so they can get the full potential on these 2 players or they will be just like Torres and waste 3/4 years their.

If Torres had decent players playing with him they may have just won something in the time he spent their.
 
The comparisons with Rooney are ludicrous. First off he had been one of those 'known' prodigies for some time before bursting into the public awareness. All the big clubs had tried to get him while he was still a schoolboy. He then went on to dominate Euro 2004 (I think it was). Everton turned down big offers for him when he was 18.

Carroll was offered to WHU for £1m less than two years ago.

It might turn out well but it is impossible to argue any semblance of rationality in this. They just made a player who as 1) not been long regarded as a top quality player 2) only had half a season in the Premier league and one England cap 3) is already in some trouble with the law the eighth most expensive player of all time.

It's just mind blowing that people are trying to imply this makes sense.

If City had done it there would be nothing but piss taking about Arabs with more money than sense.
 
The Madness of King Kenny.

Donkey's Ears said:
They just made a player who as 1) not been long regarded as a top quality player 2) only had half a season in the Premier league and one England cap 3) is already in some trouble with the law the eighth most expensive player of all time.
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And apparently didn't want to leave his "home club"! What's next for Liverpool, a new stadium on the moon? :wenger:

He may turn out to be a good player for them but 35mill is one feck of a punt to find out.
 
RedRover said:
What? Having had a decent 18 months with Everton? Few brilliant goals against good teams?

No different to people shouting about how Carroll "hasn't proved himself yet".
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no

you're getting confused here.

Rooney had been tracked by ferguson since he was 14 years old.

Rooney at the time we bought him had just electrified the euro championships and any fool could see the boy was something special.

That remains to be certified with carroll, he looks fairly handy.... but the jury is still out.

very riskyu buy
 
Rooney was 4 years younger than Carroll for a start, and had just been the most electrifying player at a major international tournament, scoring 4 in 4. Not really quite the same is it?
 
Mockney said:
Rooney was 4 years younger than Carroll for a start, and had just been the most electrifying player at a major international tournament, scoring 4 in 4. Not really quite the same is it?
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A few people have made that point, but it keeps getting lost, like a rowing boat in a vast ocean of posts.
 
Drifter said:
A Newcastle United fanzine editor claims Andy Carroll was forced into agreeing to a club-record 35 million-pound transfer to Liverpool.

Carroll, 22, was sold by hometown club Newcastle to English Premier League rivals Liverpool on Monday, causing widespread anger among fans of the St James’ Park outfit.

And Toontalk editor Steve Wraith has now suggested that crowd favourite Carroll, who signed a new five-year contract in October, was pushed into agreeing to the switch to Anfield.

At 2.37pm GMT on transfer deadline day, Carroll reportedly sent Wraith a text message saying he was ‘not going anywhere’.

But by 5pm, Carroll told Wraith: “They have kind of said we don’t want u but want me to say I wanna go. And I said I don’t want to go.”

Newcastle claim they accepted Liverpool’s offer after receiving a transfer request from Carroll, but the striker disagreed with their version of events.

“No I didn’t that’s what I mean that’s what they wanted me to do and I said no,” he told Wraith.

“They said they wanted to accept it.”

Wraith then asked Carroll if had no choice but to sign for Liverpool, to which he replied: “Looks like it.”

Carroll also provided Wraith with a message for the Newcastle fans: “They said they wanted the money. Gutted to be leaving Newcastle but I was kind of pushed out the door.”

“Gutted to be leaving my home club but I was practically told to go. Didn’t want to leave that’s why I signed a five-year deal.”

Carroll, who is recovering from a thigh injury, will inherit the number nine shirt previously worn by Fernando Torres at Anfield.

Torres left Liverpool for Premier League champions Chelsea on Monday in a British-record 50 million-pound move.


Slavery
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If I was the owner I'd also do likewise. Simply, it's an offer you cannot refuse. If they invest that money back into the squad it will make them a lot better. The deal suits both the player, and the club. Both parties should just be honest instead of trying to win a PR game.
 
Sharky7 said:
So wrong. He'd just been the best young player at the European Championships, he was the first name on the teamsheet for England. Andy Carroll has been in the squad once I think?
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Had a very good European Championships in another very average England performance and was a bit of a revelation.

His attitude and fearlessness was first class - but he wasn't ripping it up every week in the PL week in week out.

I'm not suggesting Carroll is another Wayne Rooney - only that relatively speaking United paid a huge sum for a young player with potential to be a great player. How many other clubs would have spent £30 million on an 18 year old - but it proved to be an astute buy.

The point is that the price of players has sky rocketed - question to ask is what would an 18 year old Rooney be worth now? More than Andy Carroll I reckon given the huge fees splurged over the last few years.

The sums of money being spent are ridiculous but as I've said before, its impossible to say whether they've spent over the odds until you see what he produces. If it's the right player at the right time then surely its a good deal regardless of price?
 
RedRover said:
Had a very good European Championships in another very average England performance and was a bit of a revelation - pushed into some sort of here by the press hype over the few weeks of teh tournament.
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Nar, not having that. I watched the tournament and he was absolutely electrifying against the likes of France.

RedRover said:
His attitude and fearlessness was first class - but he wasn't ripping it up every week in the PL week in week out.
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Because Moyes was wrapping him in cotton wool, when he played he ripped it up. I remember the fright he gave us at OT when he came on... jeeeeezus!

RedRover said:
I'm not suggesting Carroll is another Wayne Rooney - only that relatively speaking United paid a huge sum for a young player with potential to be a great player. How many other clubs would have spent £30 million on an 18 year old - but it proved to be an astute buy.
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At that time I'd say every big club in Europe would've paid that for Wayne Rooney. At this time, only Liverpool would pay that for Carroll, now there's your difference!

RedRover;9240942I said:
The point is that the price of players has sky rocketed - question to ask is what would an 18 year old Rooney be worth now? More than Andy Carroll I reckon.
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Good point. I still doubt Rooney would cost much more than Carroll, Dzeko is a much better footballer and went for less, same with David Villa. Liverpool have paid MASSIVELY over the odds at this point through desperation, no amount of debating will change that.
 
Scholesgoals said:
no

you're getting confused here.

Rooney had been tracked by ferguson since he was 14 years old.

Rooney at the time we bought him had just electrified the euro championships and any fool could see the boy was something special.

That remains to be certified with carroll, he looks fairly handy.... but the jury is still out.
very riskyu buy
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Your right. My thoughts on it though are that you need to consider what else the money spent would get you.

Carroll seems to be a bit of an enigma - his style is liked by some and not by others, so it captures the imagination of the press, especially given his relative experience, and teh fans seem to be appeased despite Torres leaving.

I'm not sure who else they could have bought who'd have the same effect. They're arguably not likely to attract any of the worlds very best so what do you do? Buy three £10 million players like Babel, a la Rafa Benitez, or take a punt on a kid who could be a line leader for the next decade?
 
RedRover said:
Carroll seems to be a bit of an enigma - his style is liked by some and not by others, so it captures the imagination of the press, especially given his relative experience, and teh fans seem to be appeased despite Torres leaving.
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ha ha, that's not a valid point.... it's the dippers, they have always been deluded.

If there is one club in world football who's supporters could take a positive from this, it's the dippers.
 
RedRover said:
I'm not sure who else they could have bought who'd have the same effect. They're arguably not likely to attract any of the worlds very best so what do you do?
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Bollox, the dippers can still attract the best. I reckon their 35m could've got them many a better/more proven footballer.
 
Sharky7 said:
Nar, not having that. I watched the tournament and he was absolutely electrifying against the likes of France.



Because Moyes was wrapping him in cotton wool, when he played he ripped it up. I remember the fright he gave us at OT when he came on... jeeeeezus!



At that time I'd say every big club in Europe would've paid that for Wayne Rooney. At this time, only Liverpool would pay that for Carroll, now there's your difference!



Good point. I still doubt Rooney would cost much more than Carroll, Dzeko is a much better footballer and went for less, same with David Villa. Liverpool have paid MASSIVELY over the odds at this point through desperation, no amount of debating will change that.
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Fair enough, you're entitled to your opinions. Carroll has been targeted by a number of clubs though, with Spurs (and by all acounts Chelsea pre-Torres) taking a keen interest. It may be that as with Rooney a club has moved for a player they rate highly to prevent him from moving to another club.

There are also risks with Dzeko - no PL experience, and Villa doesnt fit as an easy comparison - he wanted to go to Barca and thats all they would pay. Man City, Madrid and probably even United would have paid more. Worth noting that his buyout clause is set at £175 million - so that suggests his real value is higher than he cost.

Like has been said - its a gamble and they've paid over the odds as Newcastle had them over a barrell, but if he does well he may even make them a few quid if player prices keep climbing.
 
RedRover said:
A player like Carroll, with his style of play will always be stereotyped but you can't deny he's been effective and the catalyst for Newcastle's season. He's a difficult player to play against and it may not be glamourous but it seems to get results.

A possible comparison is Chelsea spending £24 million on Drogba - most people would have balked at that at the time.

I can't see how you can compare him to Modric or Nasri being different players, and would also suggest that both would cost more than £35 million to any buying club on current form, given that only a few clubs would have the pull to sign them.

The question is weather Carroll is worth what Rooney was, but don't forget how long ago Rooney was signed and what a huge fee it was then, as well as the fact that United paid for raw potential, which to be fair to him, he has arguably still not fullfilled.

I think Liverpool maybe paid more than they would in the Summer, but a good end to the season may have started an auction pushing the price higher. It also goes a long way to appeasing the fans and giving the season a boost - and they've only spent £8 million net.
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He's been effective no doubt but in a team that is based around hitting the front man quickly and throwing in cross after cross, and Liverpool just won't (or can't, given their wingers) play that way. He's got plenty of room to expand his game and I'm sure he will but all of these players he's being compared to have shown levels above what Carroll has and I can't see what he's done to make people assume he'll so easily jump up those levels.

Drogba was signed just after he had taken Marseille to the final of the Uefa Cup with one outstanding performance after another and was at least recognised on a European stage. I'm not sure Carroll's shown that level of matchwinning ability. You wouldn't expect him to given his age but they paid an exceptional price so you think they'd be paying it for someone who's shown exceptional quality - Carroll's shown he can be very effective in this league but not a huge amount more.

If you compare the fee's actually, Rooney went for a just-outside-the-top-10 fee, whereas Carroll's inside the top 10. In terms of market value Carroll's more expensive. And he's 3 years older. And less talented. It's a ludicrous amount to pay and even with this auction in the summer (which would be between Spurs and Liverpool, as Chelsea, Arsenal, City and United showed little to no interest which says something) because no team would be willing to go past £35m for him. It's a huge amount of money now, this summer or three summers' time.
 
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