Berbatov | Fulham player

A grade said:
Who says he can't play as one? As long as he is not expected to sprint around all match, and with his skills and vision, he won't have to.
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Well, not me certainly, hence the suggestion! :D

Not sure why it hasn't been done earlier in his career. Probably because he was banging them in for Leverkusen. He does seem to me to be a midfielder playing upfront at times, though he was very impressive after a run of games in the first half of the season.
 
I just want this saga to end, quickly as possible... give him the contract and let's move on to the next deals.
 
KM said:
If we sell Berbatov, we will have to sign a new striker who's happy to sit on bench and will score 15-20 goals, any suggestions?
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This doesn't make sense. If he sits on the bench he is not going to score as many goals so saying we need someone to score 15-20 is wrong.

This also assumes Berba will get 15-20 with a reduced playing time.
 
Commadus said:
This doesn't make sense. If he sits on the bench he is not going to score as many goals so saying we need someone to score 15-20 is wrong.

This also assumes Berba will get 15-20 with a reduced playing time.
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His point actually makes plenty of sense. Berbatov was our top scorer yet didnt kick up a fuss when he eventually got benched after rotation. Which other striker out there would be our top scorer and take that?
 
Commadus said:
This doesn't make sense. If he sits on the bench he is not going to score as many goals so saying we need someone to score 15-20 is wrong.

This also assumes Berba will get 15-20 with a reduced playing time.
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My point was that Berbatov has the ability to 15-20 goals and YET sit on bench without too much fuss when the situation needs. I didn't say that he can come from the bench and score 15-20 goals.
 
KM said:
My point was that Berbatov has the ability to 15-20 goals and YET sit on bench without too much fuss when the situation needs. I didn't say that he can come from the bench and score 15-20 goals.
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It all depends on the playing time he gets. He has scored 9,12,20 League goals so I am not sure whether he would get 15-20 with reduced playing time.

The stats show he has iproved each year so next year who knows what will happen.

I said before if SAF wants to take United in a new direction he will get rid of Berba and I don't see that changing.
 
Commadus said:
I said before if SAF wants to take United in a new direction he will get rid of Berba and I don't see that changing.
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That doesn't make any sense. The only "new direction" for United would be to try and emulate Barcelona's style of football and Berbatov is one of the few players at United that has the ability to play that kind of football.

I don't see why Ferguson would want to get rid of Berbatov unless Berbatov suffers a massive multi-season complete failure as a footballer, simply because Berbatov offers us something completely different and unique, and that variety is a huge asset no matter what "direction" the club has taken.

Look at the '99 team with Yorke, Cole, Solskjaer and Sheringham. Now we have Rooney, Hernandez, Owen and Berbatov. Why would we want to get rid of Berbatov after he has just had his best season for us?

I don't understand this "get rid of Berbatov" stuff at all. Fair enough he can be criticised, fair enough he might not be trusted for the big games, but what benefit is there in reducing the quality we have at the club?
 
SFraser said:
That doesn't make any sense. The only "new direction" for United would be to try and emulate Barcelona's style of football and Berbatov is one of the few players at United that has the ability to play that kind of football.

I don't see why Ferguson would want to get rid of Berbatov unless Berbatov suffers a massive multi-season complete failure as a footballer, simply because Berbatov offers us something completely different and unique, and that variety is a huge asset no matter what "direction" the club has taken.

Look at the '99 team with Yorke, Cole, Solskjaer and Sheringham. Now we have Rooney, Hernandez, Owen and Berbatov. Why would we want to get rid of Berbatov after he has just had his best season for us?

I don't understand this "get rid of Berbatov" stuff at all. Fair enough he can be criticised, fair enough he might not be trusted for the big games, but what benefit is there in reducing the quality we have at the club?
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I don't really want to see Berbatov go but I think you have gone some way to answering your own question here. This essentially means that when a big game comes up, we're down to three strikers before we start.
 
Moriarty said:
I don't really want to see Berbatov go but I think you have gone some way to answering your own question here. This essentially means that when a big game comes up, we're down to three strikers before we start.
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It's not like Berbatov hasn't scored goals against Chelsea, Liverpool and Spurs. One Owen goal vs City doesn't make him a better option in the big games.
 
SFraser said:
The only "new direction" for United would be to try and emulate Barcelona's style of football and Berbatov is one of the few players at United that has the ability to play that kind of football.
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That's total bullcrap, Berbatov is close to the opposite of Barcelona players, particularly their strikers (in all but his touch):

a) One of the things Berbatov doesn't have in his locker is the inclination or stamina to chase every ball like the entire Barcelona team when they don't have it.

b) Every time Berbatov gets the ball he slows the game down, Barcelona play a quick pass and move game and so this wouldn't suit.

c) Barcelona have relatively few shots for their amount of possession, they are built upon clinical finishing. Berbatov isn't a clinical finisher.

d) Barcelona play intricate through balls exploiting the offside trap, one of Berbatov's worst qualities is his ability to stay onside/beat the offside trap (links in with point a))

He has a great first touch and when given time can pick a great pass, he's also good at holding the ball up. His laissez faire style is indicative of an Italian team, and is definitely nothing like Barce's.
 
finneh said:
That's total bullcrap, Berbatov is close to the opposite of Barcelona players, particularly their strikers (in all but his touch):

a) One of the things Berbatov doesn't have in his locker is the inclination or stamina to chase every ball like the entire Barcelona team when they don't have it.

b) Every time Berbatov gets the ball he slows the game down, Barcelona play a quick pass and move game and so this wouldn't suit.

c) Barcelona have relatively few shots for their amount of possession, they are built upon clinical finishing. Berbatov isn't a clinical finisher.

d) Barcelona play intricate through balls exploiting the offside trap, one of Berbatov's worst qualities is his ability to stay onside/beat the offside trap (links in with point a))

He has a great first touch and when given time can pick a great pass, he's also good at holding the ball up. His laissez faire style is indicative of an Italian team, and is definitely nothing like Barce's.
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That's a myth.

Berbatov's got not only a great touch, but a great vision and intelligence as well. The only sound point you make is that he hasn't got the energy to press up front in the manner Villa and Pedro do it. The other points are well off the mark.
 
finneh said:
That's total bullcrap, Berbatov is close to the opposite of Barcelona players, particularly their strikers (in all but his touch):
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You are right, Gibson is the player in our team closest to playing the Barcelona way.
 
finneh said:
That's total bullcrap, Berbatov is close to the opposite of Barcelona players, particularly their strikers (in all but his touch):

a) One of the things Berbatov doesn't have in his locker is the inclination or stamina to chase every ball like the entire Barcelona team when they don't have it.

b) Every time Berbatov gets the ball he slows the game down, Barcelona play a quick pass and move game and so this wouldn't suit.

c) Barcelona have relatively few shots for their amount of possession, they are built upon clinical finishing. Berbatov isn't a clinical finisher.

d) Barcelona play intricate through balls exploiting the offside trap, one of Berbatov's worst qualities is his ability to stay onside/beat the offside trap (links in with point a))

He has a great first touch and when given time can pick a great pass, he's also good at holding the ball up. His laissez faire style is indicative of an Italian team, and is definitely nothing like Barce's.
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That's nonsense, often his flicks and clever use of the ball speed up attacks. Just because he's not as pacy as, say, a Saha, and occasionally strolls in possession, doesn't mean he "slows the game down every time he gets the ball".

I would also debate your summation of his tendency to be offside as being a bad quality, he often, especially this season, plays on the shoulder of the last man when we're attacking, sometimes this results in an offside, but it will often result in an opening or goal too, see goals against Newcastle, Everton, Fulham.
 
Treble said:
It's not like Berbatov hasn't scored goals against Chelsea, Liverpool and Spurs. One Owen goal vs City doesn't make him a better option in the big games.
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But the point made was that Berbatov isn't trusted for the big games. I don't want to second guess the original poster but I think he meant big European games. In these situations, it does appear that Berbatov is down the pecking order. Whether that's because Fergie doesn't trust him to perform, or his presence in the team doesn't fit the tactics is open to debate.
 
Moriarty said:
But the point made was that Berbatov isn't trusted for the big games. I don't want to second guess the original poster but I think he meant big European games. In these situations, it does appear that Berbatov is down the pecking order. Whether that's because Fergie doesn't trust him to perform, or his presence in the team doesn't fit the tactics is open to debate.
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Well, he started against Marseille. And he, not Owen, started vs Schalke. The selection for one game, be it the most important, doesn't imply that Owen would be preferred in all other big games (in Europe).
 
SFraser said:
That doesn't make any sense. The only "new direction" for United would be to try and emulate Barcelona's style of football and Berbatov is one of the few players at United that has the ability to play that kind of football.

I don't see why Ferguson would want to get rid of Berbatov unless Berbatov suffers a massive multi-season complete failure as a footballer, simply because Berbatov offers us something completely different and unique, and that variety is a huge asset no matter what "direction" the club has taken.

Look at the '99 team with Yorke, Cole, Solskjaer and Sheringham. Now we have Rooney, Hernandez, Owen and Berbatov. Why would we want to get rid of Berbatov after he has just had his best season for us?

I don't understand this "get rid of Berbatov" stuff at all. Fair enough he can be criticised, fair enough he might not be trusted for the big games, but what benefit is there in reducing the quality we have at the club?
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Well Barca got rid of Ibra who is a more mobile version of Berba so to say we have to have Berba to play more like barca is wrong. In fact getting rid of Ibra and buying villa proved that - though Ibra is better technically his movement is not on the level of Villa.

Barca style is movement and pressure - the technical aspect is a given.
 
Treble said:
That's a myth.

Berbatov's got not only a great touch, but a great vision and intelligence as well. The only sound point you make is that he hasn't got the energy to press up front in the manner Villa and Pedro do it. The other points are well off the mark.
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Feeky_Magee said:
That's nonsense, often his flicks and clever use of the ball speed up attacks. Just because he's not as pacy as, say, a Saha, and occasionally strolls in possession, doesn't mean he "slows the game down every time he gets the ball".

I would also debate your summation of his tendency to be offside as being a bad quality, he often, especially this season, plays on the shoulder of the last man when we're attacking, sometimes this results in an offside, but it will often result in an opening or goal too, see goals against Newcastle, Everton, Fulham.
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He does do first time flicks which speed up our attacks, but the majority of the time he slows down our play, I really can't see why that would even be up for debate. With Rooney/Hernandez up front we are far, far less... patient than with Berbatov generally.

His tendency to be offside is definitely a bad thing with his style of play. With someone who plays on the shoulder like Owen/Hernandez it can be a quality, but Berbatov is generally facing our own goal when in an offside position, something you rarely see from Barcelona players. I also never said him being offside was a terrible quality, just that it wouldn't suit Barcelona's style of play.

In all fairness I think there are probably 8 or 9 players in our squad that would be more suited to Barcelona's style of play than Berbatov.

/edit: excellent point Commadus.
 
Commadus said:
Well Barca got rid of Ibra who is a more mobile version of Berba so to say we have to have Berba to play more like barca is wrong. In fact getting rid of Ibra and buying villa proved that - though Ibra is better technically his movement is not on the level of Villa.

Barca style is movement and pressure - the technical aspect is a given.
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Mobility is one thing, pace is another. Berbatov moves a lot, he is quite mobile in terms of covered distance. He isn't pacy which is another thing. Ibra is quicker but I don't think that he runs more than Berbatov, on the contrary, he seems top be "lazier".
 
Commadus said:
Well Barca got rid of Ibra who is a more mobile version of Berba so to say we have to have Berba to play more like barca is wrong. In fact getting rid of Ibra and buying villa proved that - though Ibra is better technically his movement is not on the level of Villa.

Barca style is movement and pressure - the technical aspect is a given.
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Did I say he would be some perfect signing for Barca? No.

I said that if this club "changes direction" then that direction would be to emulate Barcelona, and out of all the players we have at the club Berbatov is one of the best if not the best we have at playing tight little passing and movement football in congested spaces. Not Gibson, not Nani, not Valencia, not Fletcher, not Herandez, not Park, not just about 3/4 of our team.

You said if Ferguson wanted to "change direction" he would sell Berbatov. What sort of direction would that take us? High speed counter-attacking football? That's how we play in big games anyway, and that's why Berbatov doesn't always get the nod in big games. Not because he is shite, but because he doesn't suit a high speed counter-attacking game.

Tell me about this "new direction" of yours that involves selling Berbatov.
 
SFraser said:
You said if Ferguson wanted to "change direction" he would sell Berbatov. What sort of direction would that take us? High speed counter-attacking football? That's how we play in big games anyway, and that's why Berbatov doesn't always get the nod in big games. Not because he is shite, but because he doesn't suit a high speed counter-attacking game.

Tell me about this "new direction" of yours that involves selling Berbatov.
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Probably the direction Barcelona have taken, whereby every member of the team is fluid and hounds the opposition in groups of 2 or 3. When a player doesn't have the ball, whether or not their team has the ball they are constantly moving to create space to a) create space for their teammate in possession; or b) win the ball back.

Barcelona's game isn't even close to just passing in tight spaces, in fact that is actually almost a byproduct of their fluidity.

I'd say the likes of Evra, Rafael, Fabio, Ferdinand, Rooney, Hernandez (among others), definitely Scholes :(... would fit into Barcelona's team and style of play way before Berbatov.
 
Commadus said:
Well Barca got rid of Ibra who is a more mobile version of Berba so to say we have to have Berba to play more like barca is wrong. In fact getting rid of Ibra and buying villa proved that - though Ibra is better technically his movement is not on the level of Villa.

Barca style is movement and pressure - the technical aspect is a given.
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Getting rid of Ibra meant that Guardiola could play Messi as a free roaming arrowhead in their 4-3-3. To say Villa has better movement than Ibra is somewhat missleading - Ibra scored some great goals involving good movement off the ball - but Villa was/is a more fit their system since he can play out on the wing with Messi inside himself.
 
finneh said:
Probably the direction Barcelona have taken, whereby every member of the team is fluid and hounds the opposition in groups of 2 or 3. When a player doesn't have the ball, whether or not their team has the ball they are constantly moving to create space to a) create space for their teammate in possession; or b) win the ball back.

Barcelona's game isn't even close to just passing in tight spaces, in fact that is actually almost a byproduct of their fluidity.

I'd say the likes of Evra, Rafael, Fabio, Ferdinand, Rooney, Hernandez (among others), definitely Scholes :(... would fit into Barcelona's team and style of play way before Berbatov.
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You sound as if the main difference between United and Barca is the movement of the players and not their skills on the ball. That's far from the truth. It wouldn't be a big problem for us to play like Barcelona if you were right. But we couldn't play like Barcelona. And guess why. Because most of our players don't have the skills and the intelliegnce to do it, not because they don't know how to move. Movement is easier to learn than ability on the ball and intelligence to use it. If you aren't great on the ball, you can't play in the way Barcelona play. It's quite simple really.
 
Treble said:
You sound as if the main difference between United and Barca is the movement of the players and not their skills on the ball. That's far from the truth. It wouldn't be a big problem for us to play like Barcelona if you were right. But we couldn't play like Barcelona. And guess why. Because most of our players don't have the skills and the intelliegnce to do it, not because they don't know how to move. Movement is easier to learn than ability on the ball and intelligence to use it. If you aren't great on the ball, you can't play in the way Barcelona play. It's quite simple really.
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I think Barcelona make it look like they have 10 of the most technically gifted players in the world, but ask yourself do they really... apart from Messi, Iniesta and Xavi?

Are Pedro, or Affelay, or Bojan, or Pique, or Abidal, or Busquets, or Alves, or Mascherano, or Keita, or even Villa that much better at passing, that much more skilful and that much more intelligent than our players? In my opinion this group of players aren't better than a lot of our players and in some cases are worse on paper.
 
You lot are nuts, the Barca style/Berba comparison is one of the most stupid things I've ever read. They press like feck, Berba doesn't, in fact before I make a gigantic list of how "unbarca" Berba is I'll just save my time and call you all nuts again.
 
Wait wait, I think I've just cracked it, you're not nuts after all, you just think we should play Berba in Pique's position right?.... I like it.
 
I wonder how long it will be before it's possible to discuss football without Barca being dragged into every single discussion? It's getting silly now.

They're the best team on the planet but we don't need to mimic them to build a great team of our own.
 
finneh said:
I think Barcelona make it look like they have 10 of the most technically gifted players in the world, but ask yourself do they really... apart from Messi, Iniesta and Xavi?

Are Pedro, or Affelay, or Bojan, or Pique, or Abidal, or Busquets, or Alves, or Mascherano, or Keita, or even Villa that much better at passing, that much more skilful and that much more intelligent than our players? In my opinion this group of players aren't better than a lot of our players and in some cases are worse on paper.
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I'd say Pique, Busquets and Villa are terrific technically, right up there with the best in their position.
 
Sharky7 said:
You lot are nuts, the Barca style/Berba comparison is one of the most stupid things I've ever read. They press like feck, Berba doesn't, in fact before I make a gigantic list of how "unbarca" Berba is I'll just save my time and call you all nuts again.
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may I see that list?
 
Give him the contract already, having such attacking depth in the squad is essential, and it's rare to have such a good player happy to take such a position.

such
 
I'm not going through this whole thread so this point may have been raised. The £30m we paid for him is gone. No point thinking about it. His current value is about £12-15m, (my completely unexpert opinion, taking into account what I have read) so the question is, what would we rather have, £12m or berbatov. I'm choosing berba every time.
 
Personally I wasn't trying to wade into the Berba/Barca discussion as it's a pretty silly and pointless one, I was simply pointing out that a) he doesn't necessarily slow down our attacks "every time he gets on the ball" and b) his tendency to play right on the line of offside can be very rewarding and isn't something I'd necessarily put down as "one of his worst qualities"
 
As long as he accepts being on the bench when he's out of form then he's worth more than £15m to us and we wouldn't find anyone better than him as a 3rd striker anyway. That's all there is to it really.
 
Irwin said:
As long as he accepts being on the bench when he's out of form then he's worth more than £15m to us and we wouldn't find anyone better than him as a 3rd striker anyway. That's all there is to it really.
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This plus a first touch that arouses me
 
Feeky_Magee said:
Personally I wasn't trying to wade into the Berba/Barca discussion as it's a pretty silly and pointless one, I was simply pointing out that a) he doesn't necessarily slow down our attacks "every time he gets on the ball" and b) his tendency to play right on the line of offside can be very rewarding and isn't something I'd necessarily put down as "one of his worst qualities"
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didn't read back into the thread, but it would be silly to do that indeed

however, one word Barca is associated with is -control. Berba's got that
 
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