Was reading the match report in the times today and they singled out Anderson for having a bit of a mare. Thought it quite strange because from what I saw he seemed to be doing quite well.
Anderson
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Ideally you'd want to earn it with his performances when he does get chances, but he's so up and down it's hard to know where he's going to end up. Some weeks he looks a brilliant player and others he seems to struggle with the basics of midfield play. I'm not at all convinced by the defensive side of his game yet.
He started out awfully but I thought he really grew (into the game lulz) as the game went on and our play was going through him IMO. I was satisfied with both him and Cleverley given it was a weakened team we fielded. Fletcher was the weak link for me, literally.
I still think Ando's biggest problem aside from fitness is just that when a game is tight he can struggle to have a cutting edge to his play. Clev has similar problems but I think his general touch, energy and passing is better, with ando in an open game he can play really well but in the tighter ones he suffers as he can't use his power carrying the ball often and he tends to try and force the issue.
Think though he and clev both put in better performances than the wingers have so deserve games until some of them find form. At the very least we should try and give him more league time as there's just no point keeping him on the bench, we need to see him progress now whilst scholes and giggs are still here as insurance.
Think though he and clev both put in better performances than the wingers have so deserve games until some of them find form. At the very least we should try and give him more league time as there's just no point keeping him on the bench, we need to see him progress now whilst scholes and giggs are still here as insurance.
It seems most of us are converging on agreement: Give Ando a run of games and see what he can do with the chance. How many games, however, before we throw our hands up in the air, is a question I don't have an answer to. 4, 6, 10? Don't forget we're chasing a prem trophy so there's not a lot of room for sympathy if things aren't going right for him...and for United.
I wouldn't go so far as to describe his performance last night as a "mare" but it certainly was forgettable. The sooner forgotten, the better. But it was one of those games that we had no intention of winning against an oppoonent who was desperate for a win. So it wouldn't be fair to judge Ando too harshly.
I wouldn't go so far as to describe his performance last night as a "mare" but it certainly was forgettable. The sooner forgotten, the better. But it was one of those games that we had no intention of winning against an oppoonent who was desperate for a win. So it wouldn't be fair to judge Ando too harshly.
You wont get any arguments from me if you're suggesting we get a proper top quality CM in, we've all shouted our throats sore over that during the summer.
Am not saying Ando has done enough to suggest he's good enough to start all games for a club like ours. Unfortunately though, we have perhaps the weakest CM among the clubs of our standard. If we were to actually want only the CMs who'd get into the world's elite, we'l be shopping for more than 1 CM this summer and kicking out quite a few.
You cannot throw him out because he isnt good enough to get into say bayern's squad simply because none of our CMs are upto that standard. We have an above average set of CMs and he fits right in there. He's definitely not at his best though and thankfully, he's not been injured this season. Consistent games could and should see him getting better. Its definitely not going to happen if we play give him the odd game though and start Scholes and giggs over him.
How many of the other CMs we have do you think are good enough to start for the elite clubs of this world? Names please and Do you suggest we sell all those who dont tick the box?
I guess with us we have players on the up and players on the decline. The players on the up - Clev, Anderson, Powell - could become elite level midfielders, though they are at different stages of their ascent, with different likelihoods of making it. The players on the decline were once definitely good enough but no longer are.
And then you have our one midfielder who is at the peak of his powers: Carrick. Who is a good player, but no, not at the level you would expect to see for an omnipresent in our team.
So in answer to your question, Varun, I would say nobody, but a couple have the potential to get there in the coming years.
And then you have our one midfielder who is at the peak of his powers: Carrick. Who is a good player, but no, not at the level you would expect to see for an omnipresent in our team.
So in answer to your question, Varun, I would say nobody, but a couple have the potential to get there in the coming years.
Exactly. Thats what am saying. We have players at the club who have it in them to be very good, you cannot simply sell them because they arent there already. Thats not how it works. We have no one(maybe Carrick) who's good enough to start at CM for the best clubs in the world. Doesnt mean we sell them all. Why a different rule for Ando then as some are suggesting? What we can and should have done quite some time back is to buy a CM who's top quality already to allow us to nurture these players without compromising on quality. We havent done that though for some reason but that isnt going to be addressed by selling what we have,
@ adebesi
Carrick of last season, IMO is very good for an omnipresent player in a top team. But, this year his form has dramatically decreased.
Carrick of last season, IMO is very good for an omnipresent player in a top team. But, this year his form has dramatically decreased.
I may be the only here to hold this view, but I believe Carrick has done a very nice job for us the last five or six seasons. And at times, he's actually been sensational. But at the very least, he does a quietly effective job, neither disgracing himself nor showering himself in glory. Ruling out Barcelona, Real and Bayern of course, I'd say Carrick would get a hard look by the likes of Chelsea (better than Mikel IMHO), City (better than Barry IMHO) and Arsenal (not better than Wilshere, but Carrick would comfortably settle in under Wenger).
Cleverley is still relatively new to the first team. He has to be judged somewhat differently than Ando, who's been on the first team for four or five years. But no, Cleverley would not push aside Xavi, Iniesta, Ozil, Modric, Mata, Hazard, Silva, Cleverley or Cazorla.
Giggs and Scholes fall into a different bucket completely. But a fair assessment of Scholes in the second half of the 11/12 season is that he was arguably the English prem's top midfielder. Not today, however, as Father Time shows no mercy whatsoever.
Kagawa? I suppose he's technicallly listed as a forward but I consider him a midfielder. Sure, he'd get a sniff from all the top clubs. Barca and Real are already amply stocked with some of the top midfielders we will ever see in our lifetimes, but Kagawa surely would raise eyebrows at Chelsea and City.
I'm a huge fan of Nick Powell, about whom I will be sharing a new post from strettynews shortly. Suffice it to say that Powell has already shown brilliance in his short time in a red shirt already. You want to be cautious in your praise of teenagers but since only a thousand or so people on the planet are aware of the caf it's probably safe to say that we may be seeing the early days of a United legend.
Ando? We've been waiting for what seems like an eternity for a run of good performances and just haven't see it yet. We're all willing to wait longer, but not for another eternity.
Sir Alex had an opportunity after the Chelsea COC game considering that was probably the best I've seen Anderson in a long time but for some reason Sir Alex has been very reluctant to play him the EPL.
Which of our players "disgraces themselves" at the very least?
Carrick is quite an inconsistent player. He throws through periods of being plain average quite frequently. He also never came to the club as 18/19 year old.
Carrick of last season was very good, true. Not shooting the lights out, spank-my-ass-and-call-me-Judy great. But very good.
Let's put it this way, I think most teams at our level have better midfielders than Carrick on their books. But then again, not many have defenders as good as ours. Or Rooney.
To be fair, I have no complaints about Carrick at all, only yesterday I was being mocked for sticking up for him. I do think it is a problem that he is our best midfielder though. That cannot be healthy for a team hoping to win the league, setting aside our CL ambitions.
Ruud10 has started with the hyperbole already... "early days of a United legend" let's be patient eh? He's looked good for an 18 year old but there's been many promising youngsters at his age who have failed to live up to their potential. Think some are being harsh on Ando. He hasn't had a run of games and been consistently poor. He's been thrown in every now and then and I think he's done pretty well considering his circumstances. Ruud10, what exactly is it that bothers you about Ando, and what are you expecting from game in and game out?
It wouldn't hurt to have another well-rounded midfielder with strong defensive attributes. Not sure if Fletcher can fulfill that but I was hoping he could.
Kagawa isnt a CM.
So, leaving him out. You're effectively saying that other than Carrick, nobody's good enough atm to get into the elite team CMs. But ofcourse, i dont even need to ask to know that you wouldnt advocate selling them all as it doesnt work that way at all.
Even though Ando's been involved for a while now, its always been full of injuries both pre seasons and during it. Hardly conducive to a player's performance. He's been fit this season though which has shown.
After having shown so much patience this long, we should hang on now seeing as he's been fit. what we need is to give him regular games and see how he progresses. If things dont improve even after a season or so, we might look at what can be done.
Regardless though, we should have bought a quality CM. To help us bridge the gap till these young players we have develop. The solution isnt to sell what we have at a go.
It's been said a few times before but not really of late; Carrick for me needs a consistent partner.
What he does is cover space and try to compliment his partners playing style by allowing them the space and time on the ball to be effective.
It must be bloody difficult for him to get any sort of pattern of form when that partner is always changing.
Scholes: He needs to do the leg work, push forward more and offer himself for one or two touch play while still covering deep at times.
Giggs: He needs to cover deep and find Giggs with the ball, Giggs rarely offers himself in space when he has just passed the ball and rarely gives the ball straight back for one touch play to create time and space for other players, he looks to play the ball forward with either a pass or a run. Must be incredibly frustrating for a player like Carrick.
Anderson: Like Giggs looks to play the ball forward more often than not and is more competent at it with it at his feet driving forward. His long passing is wildly hit and miss but his short passing and one touch play is excellent. Carrick needs to cover ground defensively but I get the feeling it's a communication issue more than anything else as when they have played together people have got through untracked against us and it seems unclear who is really to blame as both have a defensive responsibility. Something that could surely be worked on with time together.
Cleverley: Despite one terrible game together I get the feeling they enjoy the partnership as they both work hard, Carrick covers defensive ground, as does Cleverley while also getting forward and working hard in the final third. Their passing is also similar.
Without going into it too deeply, with so many different roles and tasks with so many different partners, it must be fecking hard to build any sort of consistent form.
Let's see here a little:
Madrid - Khedira
Barca - Busquets
City - Barry, Garcia
Chevski - Mikel
Juve - Vidal
Bayern - Matrinez
are players who play in Carrick's position in other big clubs. Only Busquets is clearly better than Carrick, while Carrick is better than most of others.
Talking about Carrick of last year.
In fairness, Ando looked absolutely fecked when he was subbed. He was practically begging to come off. Perhaps he wasn't ready for another game so soon after?
I still think Anderson has it in him to be the main man in our midfield. He will go down as a late bloomer if it happens. Given how long he has been with us, and the ability he had when he arrived, it is astonishing in some ways we are still having these debates about him. It just goes to show how appalling his luck has been with injuries.
I said most of those teams have better midfielders than Carrick. So from Madrid I would say Alonso, from City I would say Toure, from Chelsea I would say Ramires, etc etc.
Fair enough. Misinterpreted it for midfielders in his position.
I'd like to see him have a run of prem games before jumping to conclusions on him. He was excellent against a good Chelsea side away from home but needs to be producing those performances regularly if he wants to make it with us as a first team player. I agree with those slating his fitness, it's shocking for a top level footballer and not really acceptable. Home to QPR this weekend should be a perfect opportunity to kick-start his season and I hope SAF picks him.
Maybe it just shows that he's not really up to the task. We can't put everything down to injuries.
Jumping to conclusions? I think we're past that stage now.
Maybe. But considering he has had those injuries there is still a chance. That's as far as I would go, I think most others too. Not saying he will make it. But there's a chance. There is hope.
He's barely had a consistent run without injuries in his time at the club pocco. Surely you accept that it plays a huge part?
Not this season as he hasn't had a chance.
Yeah, I cringed a bit when I saw Vidal there compared to Carrick. Can't say I've seen enough of Martinez yet.
I know what you mean, but he's had periods without injury. I'm just still not seeing a player that can dominate a midfield really. As my old man always says, he plays as though he's having a knock about in the park
True. There's probably a reason for that. I remember a few years ago Fergie said he's Scholes' replacement, now he gives that tag to Powell and doesn't seem to really trust Anderson. I can understand why too.
Fergie seeing in him potential to be Scholes replacement and forcing him to change his game to adapt to that ridiculous expectation is one of the reasons Anderson flopped.
Anderson could steal my sandwiches and I'd still love him.
I know what you mean, but he's had periods without injury. I'm just still not seeing a player that can dominate a midfield really. As my old man always says, he plays as though he's having a knock about in the park
He's the only one of our CMs that actually drives on with the ball and tries to make things happen on his own. Knock about isnt how i'd describe him. And yeah, he's not yet ready to dominate midfields. none of our CMs are.
Yeah the change in role wouldnt have done his progress much good. That said, for a player that played a role much further up the pitch, he isnt very productive in the final 3rd. Looks at his best when he drives on from deep.
No doubt about that. Spot the Maradonesque run at 0:45 (if you haven't seen it before, it's missing in many of his highlights videos).
I'll elaborate longer about why we saw such tremendous potential in him and think he was such insanely wasted. I've said it before but will share it again for newer posters to read. Later, that is.
I think you're all bonkers, the lad has been excellent in at least 90% of his performances this season and one game has you all writing him off again.... nutters the lots of you.
Ramires? best in England. Better than Yaya Toure? ha ha ha, feck me. One of Chelsea's weak links. Not "very good" at anything except running.
Bollox again. It's obvious you just simply aren't a fan of Ando. If you think a fit Anderson wouldn't be in and around the top teams in England you're very mistaken.
I really do get fed up with the slating our players take on these boards, it's unreal it really is.
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