Right, Chief, because I've said the club should sell him off in these threads. You may want to verify that.
Anderson
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I haven't accused of wanting to sell him off obviously. I've instead accused you of prematurely writing him off and revising history. Yet your defence of your position consists of crap like insinuating that I think United is not giving him enough time
''....Kleberson was 23 when he arrived. I guess he didn't reach his potential because the club never gave him time to.''....
and now claiming I've said you want to sell him. You need a look in the mirror.
I said you said United isn't giving him enough time?
Odd.
Chief, we all know you live in this fantasy football world where you're this talent wizard that has an extensive scouting network and everyone else has no insight to the sport.
Carry on.
Odd.
Chief, we all know you live in this fantasy football world where you're this talent wizard that has an extensive scouting network and everyone else has no insight to the sport.
Carry on.
Odd how? . Why did you bring up Kleberson and his alleged lack of being given time if that is not what you were implying?
Talk of a pot calling kettle black. Firstly, the last time I checked I wasn't the one writing off players talents with certainty. It was you.
Secondly, you now want to call knowing players like Xavi, Zidane, Fletcher etc took time to mature and had many younger players look superior than them during that period the result of having ''an extensive scouting network'' and 'fantasy land''. Sure. Its through a vast scouting network and day dreaming that I learned all that.
Am I justified in being underwhelmed by Anderson at United, or have I been expecting too much?
I think he's got all the talent needed to make it here, his performances at home this season has pretty much confirmed this. It's all down to fitness and confidence away from home, once he sorts that out I can see him becoming an important player. I can understand why people are worrying that he hasn't improved that much since his first season but it could be that his development is less consistent than that of other players (mainly because of injury).
Agreed. He's put in a string of performances at home this season which showed exactly why he was offered a new contract and is so highly rated by SAF. This includes the last league game before Arsenal. His rank displays on the road are a puzzle (and a concern) but people really shouldn't be doubting his potential with such compelling recent evidence to judge him by.
Odd how? . Why did you bring up Kleberson and his alleged lack of being given time if that is not what you were implying?
Talk of a pot calling kettle black. Firstly, the last time I checked I wasn't the one writing off players talents with certainty. It was you.
Secondly, you now want to call knowing players like Xavi, Zidane, Fletcher etc took time to mature and had many younger players look superior than them during that period the result of having ''an extensive scouting network'' and 'fantasy land''. Sure. Its through a vast scouting network and day dreaming that I learned all that.
Thus says Chief!
I think I am seeing these games as the exception, rather than the rule though. Perhaps I am being too critical, or expecting Anderson to be a player that he isn't? When I watch him I am crying out for him to take players on and shoot, but he doesn't seem to want to.
They have been the exception, rather than the rule. Still though, the qualities he shows in those games are enough to see the player he could become. Against Everton he passed the ball exceptionally well, constantly looked to create openings for our strikers and really tried to get a hold of midfield, drive forward and force the opposition onto the back foot.
Basically exactly the type of qualities that we need to add to our squad. If he can produce that type of performance consistently he'll be a top top player for us.
The qualities that many people see in Anderson have been on display since the first game he played for United in Sept 2007. The question is, has he developed any of those qualities since that time ? Sadly I think not.
As I see them he has a toughness in the tackle and a nice turn of pace with the ability to run at opposing midfielders. He has the ability to pick out incisive passes. However, on the debit side, he seems injury prone and in four seasons has only managed some 93 appearances plus 34 as sub. He has managed only 2 goals in that time which is a poor return for an attacking midfielder. He seems over reliant on his left foot and as we can see from the goal stats not particularly effective when in striking distance. His passing, one of his so-called strong points - can best be described as erratic.
In mitigation, he was 19 when he joined and he's now 23 so still young. However, he was in the Brazil team when he joined and now he isn't. All this can be put down to the succession of injuries he's had since joining United but that fact alone tends to be a negative as we have discovered with Hargreaves.
Anderson has been given another opportunity to show what he can do in these final vital games of this season. Unfortunately, all we've seen so far is very much of the same. Neither one thing nor the other. Optimists will say he still has perhaps five games left to really make a name for himself and if not there's always next season.
As I see them he has a toughness in the tackle and a nice turn of pace with the ability to run at opposing midfielders. He has the ability to pick out incisive passes. However, on the debit side, he seems injury prone and in four seasons has only managed some 93 appearances plus 34 as sub. He has managed only 2 goals in that time which is a poor return for an attacking midfielder. He seems over reliant on his left foot and as we can see from the goal stats not particularly effective when in striking distance. His passing, one of his so-called strong points - can best be described as erratic.
In mitigation, he was 19 when he joined and he's now 23 so still young. However, he was in the Brazil team when he joined and now he isn't. All this can be put down to the succession of injuries he's had since joining United but that fact alone tends to be a negative as we have discovered with Hargreaves.
Anderson has been given another opportunity to show what he can do in these final vital games of this season. Unfortunately, all we've seen so far is very much of the same. Neither one thing nor the other. Optimists will say he still has perhaps five games left to really make a name for himself and if not there's always next season.
^ (PM) That is true.
Though our current problem (or this season's problem) has been a collective issue from midfield. Not many or any of our midfielders have been in any sort of consistent form this season to paint over Anderson's inconsistency, so it has just been a bit more evident and or costly.
You generally wouldn't object or mind Anderson's development if the team keeps getting results, but the fact that we have collectively been struggling on the road with central midfield being, well, central to most of it, just highlights Anderson's poor (away) form.
Fans should remember the patience (or well stick) Fletcher got for many a year, but SAF had faith and eventually it paid off. Let's hope for a similar situation with Anderson because no one can really deny the talent. It's just been understandably frustrating waiting and waiting...and then he has a great game and you think its the start of a run...
Though our current problem (or this season's problem) has been a collective issue from midfield. Not many or any of our midfielders have been in any sort of consistent form this season to paint over Anderson's inconsistency, so it has just been a bit more evident and or costly.
You generally wouldn't object or mind Anderson's development if the team keeps getting results, but the fact that we have collectively been struggling on the road with central midfield being, well, central to most of it, just highlights Anderson's poor (away) form.
Fans should remember the patience (or well stick) Fletcher got for many a year, but SAF had faith and eventually it paid off. Let's hope for a similar situation with Anderson because no one can really deny the talent. It's just been understandably frustrating waiting and waiting...and then he has a great game and you think its the start of a run...
That's not true. He only got picked for a handful of games for Brazil in the very early part of his United career. He never established himself in their squad, other than for the Olympics (which is not the senior Brazil squad anyway) He certainly wasn't in the Brazil team when we signed him.
Besides, I don't see what his presence or absence in the Brazil squad has to do with the fact he was 19 when we signed him and only turned 23 last month. That's more than enough reasons to reserve final judgement until the end of next season, at the earliest, whether or not you're one or the "optimists"
I see you've still got the old blinkers firmly in place ! He was in the Brazilian team when he joined us or at least the squad for the Copa America tournament that summer. Prior to that he had been named "player of the tournament" in the 2005 U17 World Championship. From that illustrious start he hasn't really progressed internationally and that's a fact as someone else used to say.
Can we afford to wait until the end of next season to "reserve final judgement" ? I don't know but he could be left behind if Fergie is able to construct a proper midfield for next season - something which has been our major weakness this one
Not sure what point you're making here. He's one of hundreds of kids who didn't progress smoothly from underage international football into their senior side. Never mind trying to break into a team as good as Brazil. Hardly a damning indictment of his lack of progress.
Of course we can. Like I said, he just turned 23 and signed a new contract a couple of months back. You're not seriously suggesting we get rid in the summer, are you?
The likelihood is that he will be kept on although I wouldn't for the following reasons: it is likely that a midfielder of established quality will be brought in. Together with Cleverley being given a chance and also Gibson another season to establish himself, plus Fletcher and Carrick and there'll be plenty of competition for places. There's also the possibility that the much missed Hargreaves may finally thow off his injuriy woes (that's wishfull thinking, admittedly) Scholes is likely to retire, I think, but all the same, Anderson will have to up his game. That's not to suggest that he's Scholes's natural successor. I think Rooney is going to increasingly fulfill that role - that's Scholes the attacking midfielder not the deep lying, almost defensive one we see nowadays, in the twilight of his career.
On the Brazil thing, I don't think it's entirely irrelevant in trying to assess where Anderson is right now.
You actually think Gibson will be given an opportunity to establish himself over Anderson? Never mind Cleverly!
You'd get rid of Anderson in the summer and give Gibson (who is 5 months older and completed all our recent pre-season training - unlike Anderson who has never attended any) "another year to establish himself"?
Blimey.
The goal was almost a direct result of Anderson's substitution.
Carrick tracks Wikshire's run and then has to try to get back to block Ramsey's shot. If Anderson was on the pitch he would have covered Ramsey.
The lad was given a role on Sunday and performed it. It was not pretty and not a role that suits him very well.
Carrick tracks Wikshire's run and then has to try to get back to block Ramsey's shot. If Anderson was on the pitch he would have covered Ramsey.
The lad was given a role on Sunday and performed it. It was not pretty and not a role that suits him very well.
I noticed posters are quick to say Mikel has never reached his potential or has stalled, some say he's shit, yet hold out on Anderson with all sorts of excuses. Is it perhaps because one plays for United?
Leaving aside his tenacious play, Mikel is a talented player not being used properly at Chelsea. Is Anderson being used properly for United?
Leaving aside his tenacious play, Mikel is a talented player not being used properly at Chelsea. Is Anderson being used properly for United?
Mikel is a year older than Anderson and I don't remember him ever being as influential as we've seen Anderson in a number of home games this season.
Not really sure what you mean about "not being used properly". They're both central midfielders, asked to play in central midfield.
Not really sure what you mean about "not being used properly". They're both central midfielders, asked to play in central midfield.
Mikel is being used most often as a holding/defensive type midfielder when I've always read posters claim he was far more influential as an attacking midfielder before joining Chelsea.
Many say Anderson is being plugged into a box-to-box style midfielder when he's more attack minded (granted he can't shoot). What is his best position? Where would United get the most from him?
Many say Anderson is being plugged into a box-to-box style midfielder when he's more attack minded (granted he can't shoot). What is his best position? Where would United get the most from him?
Actually based on current value to the squad right now, yes ! Look I'd be more than delighted if Anderson really comes to the fore (starting this week) and proves himself but I'm afraid I haven't seen those "influential" performances (note plural) that you seem to have seen from him. Gibson has his detractors all over the place but at least he's been available when called upon - that's the point. Of course given Anderson's reputation and perceived potential there should be no argument. However, whether you agree or not, many of us have considerable doubts about Anderson, few of which have been lessened after nearly four seasons - that's the issue.
I've wondered before if it might not be as a holding midfielder. The role Carrick plays generally these days. Anderson can tackle and win the ball. He's pretty quick and can bring the ball out of defensive positions. His passing and shooting are inconsistent at best - in fact he doesn 't seem to have much idea when he gets anywhere near an opponents area. So why not play him deeper and see if he can fit into that role, at the same time releasing Carrick to be more effective further up the pitch. Maybe not now though !
Did you see him against Blackburn, JD? Sunderland? Arsenal? Valencia (one of his first games back)? Did you not think he was influential against Everton?
I'd also add Birmingham to that list.
Feel's odd defending him, as I've spent most of his career countering what I felt was extreme over-rating of his performances to date.
It's going completely the opposite direction now, though, with people forgetting all the really good performances he has produced in his time at the club.
Feel's odd defending him, as I've spent most of his career countering what I felt was extreme over-rating of his performances to date.
It's going completely the opposite direction now, though, with people forgetting all the really good performances he has produced in his time at the club.
We don't know whether Cleverly will make it here. And why give Gibson the chance to establish himself but not Anderson, who has proved what he is capable of more often than Gibson (who wasnt bad at all in his few performances for us this season)
That we might bring in some midfielder who is more established is on the one hand speculation and on the other hand it wouldnt change too much of Anderson's current role in the team. He will still get his fair amount of outings where he will be able to develop further, especially considering that Scholesy and Giggsy will sooner or later retire (
).Since when is that a bad thing though? I don't think he has done so few to be shipped out and some competition for places is never a bad thing.
It indeed is. As is the thought that he, when he really manages to stay injury free, will be able to immidiatly get a place in our team, after so much time without playing football.
He needs consistency. When he is on top of his game he can be a damn good midfielder. A proper pre-season will help him.
Certainly Everton - first half mostly. The rest - not particularly. Or has our midfield been so ordinary this season that even ordinary individual performances stand out ! ? Anyway, time will tell and I genuinely hope I'm wrong but so far he's been very disappointing in most aspects of his game and that's my general view over what is now the best part of four seasons. But we'll see.
He isn't going to be a top player. We bought him for like 18m and waited 4-5 years and he hasn't improved at all, not that he's a terrible player or anything but it seems like alot of wasted time and money to me. If he was ever to be a top class midfielder he would've established himself in our team years ago. Scholes got his chance at 19 and never looked back.
Now that's just nonsense, on so many levels.
Both of them were converted from in the hole playmakers to central midfielders.
I will never understand this kind of thinking. Every young footballer is NOT the finished article at 19 or 20. Why is that so hard to understand?
Gotta love Pogue's and amolbhatia's perseverance in hoping that Anderson will be a great player. Unfortunately I've left that wagon a little while ago. I think it's unlikely at all, and even more unlikely if he stays in Manchester United. Will love to be proven wrong.
I conceded "great" a couple of pages back. I'll settle for "very good" though.
Why? As a Porto follower, you of all people should know the qualities he brings and the potential he has, and at 23 he still has plenty of time to fulfill that promise, despite the modern expectations to be a superstar at 19 which is unrealistic and probably only Messi and Rooney have managed to reach such levels at such a young age. All player's are different in terms of speed of development during their career, injuries have set Anderson back, so we could be looking at a late bloomer.
I share Fergie's faith in this lad. He wouldn't have given him a new deal last December if he planned to give up on him this summer. He's shown enough progression this season to warrant some patience, it's just a shame that his form around Christmas and in the Everton game only 10 days ago is so quickly forgotten or not noticed at all by people determined to pick holes in his game and write him off.
I see him becoming a Yaya Toure type figure for our midfield if he progresses as well as we hope, he's been getting rave reviews on here, and look where he was at 22...playing for Monaco in mid-table of Ligue 1. Fergie's "sometimes you see a cow in another field that you think is better than the one in your own" analogy springs to mind.
Blackburn was ordinary? Seriously?
I see your point in the other portions of your post but Monaco aren't exactly some obscure club in a minnow league. It's not like he was languishing for some unheard of club in the lower divisions of Croatia.
still not sure what his best position is myself. He's a physical, speedy presence in the midfield, but in the attacking third I personally think he's shit or inconsistent at best. He can see a final through pass, but cannot execute them and ends up turning the ball over. He also isn't able to regularly create high % shots for himself. I don't rate him at all as an attacking midfielder...supposedly he was a good one at porto, but it's not evident at united. I guess he's more of a box-box midfielder like fletcher.
Essentially because as a Porto follower and what I saw of him at the time I think the role he was assigned (which couldn't be any different, mind, hence I think it was the wrong club for him) doesn't capitalize on what were his greatest assets and forced him to "recondition" himself for the greater good of the team.
Loads of talent yes, but when that talent never showed in the form of great tactical awareness, an above average long-passing range or tackling, I don't see how he can perform very well in CM, let alone a 2-man CM as United usually plays.
And a player that is a first team player in Porto at the age of 17 can never be regarded as a late bloomer. More the case of a natural path that was diverted and hence slowed down.
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