Anderson

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Two of my fave Rubberman posts:

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
It doesn't apply simply because Anton Ferdinand is as natural at right back as it gets. Which Brown simply isn't. There is no way Brown would beat him in a direct competition for that spot.

Anton is a natural at right back. Much much better going forward than Brown. Thus his only real competition would be Neville & Simpson (if he stays). In SAF's eyes

This is obvious & indisputable.
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Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Scholes isn't better than Deco or Ballack at all. They have the same level.
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Credit where it's due though - he's turned into a great poster these days. I kind of miss the crazy old Rubberman :(
 
I'll ignore the first post completely.

The second one it depends when it was made and in what context. 2004 to 2006 Deco was argubally the best midfielder in the world and was playing at a higher level than Scholes.

2006 onwards Scholes reclaimed the throne, so it was a very short period. Scholes was having his eye woes aswell.
 
Well, it did take Wes Brown half a season to learn to cross. But once he got it down he was an England International starter.

I agree the Chief has gotten more reasonable is his old age.

That video...
 
He must be quite the puzzle for opposing fans. I wonder how he's rated in general.

United players don't get much credit for their skill considering how well we've done in recent years. From how people talk, you'd think Pastore', Banega and Hamsik were the ones going to CL finals and winning 3 league titles in a row.

I'm amazed he isn't in the Brazilian team yet. With their poor results, how can you look past a winner?

Is there a bigger enigma now in football?
 
gooDevil said:
He must be quite the puzzle for opposing fans. I wonder how he's rated in general.
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He's generally considered shite.

Granted, I did no scientific research to come to this conclusion but that's how it feels whenever Anderson is discussed with fans of other teams.
 
Exactly. I thought he played well. I think he's learning to adapt his game according to the standard of the partner he plays with.

He can play in any particular way - but if his partner isn't on the same wavelength you won't see the best of him. He's a team player, and we need someone who is extremely mobile, one-touch passing, change the direction of play and be available for the pass all the time. This is all exhausting stuff for the players concerned never mind the opposition, but it is what gets us results.

Let's hope Cleverley is back soon.
 
Hardly missed a pass and yet he played some difficult balls.

However he wasn't involved enough
 
Doogie said:
Hardly missed a pass and yet he played some difficult balls.

However he wasn't involved enough
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I can't agree with that. From what I saw he tried to make things happen and put in a shift against a physical team. In this particular game he couldn't attack something.... shit whats it called, rhymes with face?
 
Judging by how he featured at Porto, I thought we'd see him play out wide until he got acclimatised to life in the Prem, before playing perhaps as a Number 10 off the striker. I think that's where he started on his debut for us?

I still think when his whole game clicks, he could play in such a position. But at the moment he doesn't seem to have the productivity going forward to play such a role.
 
I thought we were buying the next Ronaldinho, instead we got the new Mirandina. He was awful, wasn't he? I used to think all Brazilian players were as good as Zico...until I saw him play for Newcastle.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Yeah, a reverse of the standard Anderson performance. Sluggish start but finished very strongly.

Actually, first 5-10 minutes he was also good. From 10-60, not so much.
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Agreed. He really got stronger towards the end. It was great to see. As you say, it's normally the opposite.
 
Red Devil 26 said:
Judging by how he featured at Porto, I thought we'd see him play out wide until he got acclimatised to life in the Prem, before playing perhaps as a Number 10 off the striker. I think that's where he started on his debut for us?

I still think when his whole game clicks, he could play in such a position. But at the moment he doesn't seem to have the productivity going forward to play such a role.
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I think composure would be a more suitable word there. He seems to rush everything, taking the obvious option. He tries to force everything, when he should just sprint less and give himself more thinking time. It's always 100 km/h with him. His shots are totally panicked and tense, as are a lot of his long passes
 
beardsleybob said:
I can't agree with that. From what I saw he tried to make things happen and put in a shift against a physical team. In this particular game he couldn't attack something.... shit whats it called, rhymes with face?
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hehe

You may be right, I just don´t think he saw enough of the ball. It is a shame because when he had the ball he usually passed it very well.
 
I'm sure I just recently heard Fergie saying that he's really learning how to play in the centre of midfield and I agree. How good he is/will be is anybodys guess as there'll be days when I just think he's not smart enough to play in that position. The next game he'll run the show and play as though the opposition midfielders aren't even there. Such a hard one to assess.

I definitely don't think he's an AM though, not consistently intricate enough. I think he's best at playing from deep and linking up the play from back to front with dribbles and one-twos.
 
He just doesn't have the end product to play AM, if we are going with 1 striker, we need the AM to be able to put chances away, and anderson must have the worst finishing I've ever seen - from short or long range.

Thing is, we can't afford to play 2 strikers ANDa purely attacking midfielder, so he has to play a more balanced box to box role
 
I thought he was very good last night. Our central midfielders kept things ticking and got our wide players into some good positions only for them to be wasteful. Would probably have had an assist as well if evra hadn't taken his pass for hernandez. The drive forwards which led to the second penalty was lovely.
 
Walrus said:
He just doesn't have the end product to play AM, if we are going with 1 striker, we need the AM to be able to put chances away, and anderson must have the worst finishing I've ever seen - from short or long range.

Thing is, we can't afford to play 2 strikers ANDa purely attacking midfielder, so he has to play a more balanced box to box role
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Yup. The only way he could play as an AM of sorts would be in a 433 with him as the furthest forward of the three. But again, wed need two goalscoring widemen like barca have for it to work given Anderson wouldn't get goals. And our widemen are proper wingers so its not a great fit.
 
Walrus said:
He just doesn't have the end product to play AM, if we are going with 1 striker, we need the AM to be able to put chances away, and anderson must have the worst finishing I've ever seen - from short or long range.

Thing is, we can't afford to play 2 strikers ANDa purely attacking midfielder, so he has to play a more balanced box to box role
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His productivity has been well up in the last 9 months.

He's improving that aspect of his game, no doubt.
 
Feed Me said:
His productivity has been well up in the last 9 months.

He's improving that aspect of his game, no doubt.
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I don't think he'll ever be the midfield creator we all expected him to be, and desperately need. he will be a top player though, no doubt
 
cina said:
I don't think he'll ever be the midfield creator we all expected him to be, and desperately need. he will be a top player though, no doubt
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I think he's got it in him to get 10 a season though - something none of our midfielders have done in yonks.

United have a massive amount of creativity in other areas of the field - i.e. the wingers/strikers.

For a long time our midfielders have been continuity players as opposed to creators-in-chief.
 
I'm not sure what u guys are expecting, even the legendary ginger prince has times where he can't be the last player to get on the stat board but does that really define a top class mf ? Productivity should be more about how he dictates the game and so far ando has shown that the most so far and especially with clevery I think he looks a lot more dynamic
 
Feed Me said:
I think he's got it in him to get 10 a season though - something none of our midfielders have done in yonks.

United have a massive amount of creativity in other areas of the field - i.e. the wingers/strikers.

For a long time our midfielders have been continuity players as opposed to creators-in-chief.
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A long time? Scholes up until 2 years ago was still a creator. It's hardly an excuse to not have one either is it?

10 goals a season is a bit optimistic, maybe 6 or 7.

We do have good creativity, notably Nani, Giggs and Rooney, other than that not much. Valencia and Young know how to cross the ball and do some dribbling but they don't have the spark of the 3 mentioned above. Creativity is more important in midfield than anywhere else, seeing as they should generally have the ball more than anyone else. Even a dictator would be a big step up, i.e. someone who can keep the ball and is there for the pass all the time and usually passes forward. I think our midfield is crying out for a player like Silva. Anderson will never be the sort of player he is.
 
RedThaiDevils#7 said:
I'm not sure what u guys are expecting, even the legendary ginger prince has times where he can't be the last player to get on the stat board but does that really define a top class mf ? Productivity should be more about how he dictates the game and so far ando has shown that the most so far and especially with clevery I think he looks a lot more dynamic
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Exactly my thoughts. We haven't relied on our midfielders to score and directly assist for years.

I agree that dictating the game is the best barometer of our midfielders.
 
cina said:
A long time? Scholes up until 2 years ago was still a creator. It's hardly an excuse to not have one either is it?

10 goals a season is a bit optimistic, maybe 6 or 7.

We do have good creativity, notably Nani, Giggs and Rooney, other than that not much. Valencia and Young know how to cross the ball and do some dribbling but they don't have the spark of the 3 mentioned above. Creativity is more important in midfield than anywhere else, seeing as they should generally have the ball more than anyone else. Even a dictator would be a big step up, i.e. someone who can keep the ball and is there for the pass all the time and usually passes forward. I think our midfield is crying out for a player like Silva. Anderson will never be the sort of player he is.
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Scholes was always more of an assist the assist sort of player.

His goalscoring stats were low for a number of years, he'd long ceased to be be a goalscoring midfielder.

I think the stats bear out the fact that Anderson has been a)getting more touches per game and making more passes, and b)making more successful passes. It's all about decision making for the lad - he's cut down on the Hollywood passes and plays the sensible ball more often. He's coming along nicely.
 
Feed Me said:
Scholes was always more of an assist the assist sort of player.

His goalscoring stats were low for a number of years, he'd long ceased to be be a goalscoring midfielder.

I think the stats bear out the fact that Anderson has been a)getting more touches per game and making more passes, and b)making more successful passes. It's all about decision making for the lad - he's cut down on the Hollywood passes and plays the sensible ball more often. He's coming along nicely.
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Hrm, you're being very cynical of Scholes FM, his creativity was brilliant. Nobody in the team we have can ping passes and through balls anyway as good as he could, not sure how that can in anyway be debated.

He had ceased to be a goalscorer of course, but again, should that stop us getting one? I can never seen Anderson getting over 10 goals a season.

Like I said, the fact that we haven't had much creativity in our midfield for quite some time is hardly a good reason to not go and get some there surely? We couldn't break that team down for shit last night and it took 2 penalties to do it. Look how little we were able to do against Pool without Rooney and Nani in the team.
 
cina said:
Hrm, you're being very cynical of Scholes FM, his creativity was brilliant. Nobody in the team we have can ping passes and through balls anyway as good as he could, not sure how that can in anyway be debated.

He had ceased to be a goalscorer of course, but again, should that stop us getting one? I can never seen Anderson getting over 10 goals a season.

Like I said, the fact that we haven't had much creativity in our midfield for quite some time is hardly a good reason to not go and get some there surely? We couldn't break that team down for shit last night and it took 2 penalties to do it. Look how little we were able to do against Pool without Rooney and Nani in the team.
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I would never look to belittle one of my favourite players of all time - love Scholesy and thought he was different class.

I really don't mean it as a sleight when I say he tended to assist the assist. I just think it comes from his average position on the pitch - players from that deep don't tend to rack up many assists or get that many goals. Their job is to knit the play together and control the tempo - the most vital function that you can't really measure in individual goals and assists.

I've got this image in my head of Scholes pinging a cross field 70 yard pass from a deep, inside left position to the right winger, who then put the ball on a plate for a centre forward to score.

As for Anderson - his lack of goals has been well documented, but I always look at the likes of Fabregas and Gerrard, neither of whom were massively prolific initially. Anderson's rate has increased of late and if he gets to the point where he's hitting 8-10 goals, then he'll be doing something that our central midfielders haven't done for years.

But even so, I'd place more importance on our midfielders' ability to control the game and compete in the midfield battle - something that I think we have improved this season.

Edit: yesterday's toothless performance was more down to the front players, I felt. Anderson and Carrick played numerous inventive balls into the front, but the forwards looked like they were running in treacle to me - we lacked pace in the final third and it was all a bit flat.
 
Feed Me said:
I would never look to belittle one of my favourite players of all time - love Scholesy and thought he was different class.

I really don't mean it as a sleight when I say he tended to assist the assist. I just think it comes from his average position on the pitch - players from that deep don't tend to rack up many assists or get that many goals. Their job is to knit the play together and control the tempo - the most vital function that you can't really measure in individual goals and assists.

I've got this image in my head of Scholes pinging a cross field 70 yard pass from a deep, inside left position to the right winger, who then put the ball on a plate for a centre forward to score.

As for Anderson - his lack of goals has been well documented, but I always look at the likes of Fabregas and Gerrard, neither of whom were massively prolific initially. Anderson's rate has increased of late and if he gets to the point where he's hitting 8-10 goals, then he'll be doing something that our central midfielders haven't done for years.

But even so, I'd place more importance on our midfielders' ability to control the game and compete in the midfield battle - something that I think we have improved this season.

Edit: yesterday's toothless performance was more down to the front players, I felt. Anderson and Carrick played numerous inventive balls into the front, but the forwards looked like they were running in treacle to me - we lacked pace in the final third and it was all a bit flat.
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Scholes in his latter days was more likely to ping the long ball to the wingers yeah, but in 06/07 he was still playing wonder passes though the middle. Obviously Scholes just can't be replaced outright, but to mention him again, a David Silva-esque player would be great here.

Carrick was top class yesterday but him and Ando weren't playing "inventive" passes, they were getting the ball to the forwards but never in the sort of positions where they could fashion a good chance. In the end we were overly reliant on Valencia (who was muck) and Nani (out of position) to do something for us. We've seen before that when it's not going well for wingers then our team really does struggle.

I don't think we have a midfielder who can control the game. Carrick is probably the closest, he's good at making himself available for passes and slowing play down if needs be. Ando definitely isn't, yet. Fletcher? Nope.

I guess we'll have to wait and see as to whether Anderson will score more goals now, but his long shots are absolutely dire and have never improved so I just can't see it happening, not to the extent of 10+ a season anyway. Maybe I'll be eating my hat at the end of this season, who knows.

EDIT: For the record, I don't think it's more goals we need in midfield, we score plenty of goals at times. It's someone who can make things happen than we should look for.
 
cina said:
Scholes in his latter days was more likely to ping the long ball to the wingers yeah, but in 06/07 he was still playing wonder passes though the middle. Obviously Scholes just can't be replaced outright, but to mention him again, a David Silva-esque player would be great here.

Carrick was top class yesterday but him and Ando weren't playing "inventive" passes, they were getting the ball to the forwards but never in the sort of positions where they could fashion a good chance. In the end we were overly reliant on Valencia (who was muck) and Nani (out of position) to do something for us. We've seen before that when it's not going well for wingers then our team really does struggle.

I don't think we have a midfielder who can control the game. Carrick is probably the closest, he's good at making himself available for passes and slowing play down if needs be. Ando definitely isn't, yet. Fletcher? Nope.

I guess we'll have to wait and see as to whether Anderson will score more goals now, but his long shots are absolutely dire and have never improved so I just can't see it happening, not to the extent of 10+ a season anyway. Maybe I'll be eating my hat at the end of this season, who knows.

EDIT: For the record, I don't think it's more goals we need in midfield, we score plenty of goals at times. It's someone who can make things happen than we should look for.
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I've cast longing glances in the direction of Silva - it's hard not to look at him and wonder why we weren't in there for him.

I agree it's not more goals we need. If you look at the last 5 or 6 years, in vital head to head matches, we've been better than all teams except Barcelona. We need more mobility in the middle of the park to counter that. Twice we've started Giggs for instance.

Anderson looking trim and getting regular games will help. I think that's why people like Cleverley as well - because he's perennially in motion and an intelligent ball user. If we can get Fletcher back to his best, I think we could have an interesting combination of midfielders to work with.

I'd like Ferguson to give the midfield more continuity in terms of team selections to be honest.
 
Feed Me said:
I've cast longing glances in the direction of Silva - it's hard not to look at him and wonder why we weren't in there for him.

I agree it's not more goals we need. If you look at the last 5 or 6 years, in vital head to head matches, we've been better than all teams except Barcelona. We need more mobility in the middle of the park to counter that. Twice we've started Giggs for instance.

Anderson looking trim and getting regular games will help. I think that's why people like Cleverley as well - because he's perennially in motion and an intelligent ball user. If we can get Fletcher back to his best, I think we could have an interesting combination of midfielders to work with.

I'd like Ferguson to give the midfield more continuity in terms of team selections to be honest.
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I probably go into the frailties of our midfield too much, but I strongly agree with your last point there. I know Fergie likes to rotate but completely changing our midfield around from one game to the next is just a little much really.
 
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