Alternatively, his form goes up and down irrespective of who he plays alongside. Which is fairly obvious when you consider how shite he's played alongside Carrick at times in the past (most memorably in the CL final)
Anderson
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Alternatively, his form goes up and down irrespective of who he plays alongside. Which is fairly obvious when you consider how shite he's played alongside Carrick at times in the past (most memorably in the CL final)
Excellent post Pogue.
This is why I never take these tournaments seriously anymore.There's a high number of players who had cracking performances in U19-U21 tournaments but who can't make the step up when playing for the seniors
I'm hoping he finds some consistancy, and can be the one who drives our midfield forward when we need inspiration. That, he might very well do one day.
What he will never do though, and surely SAF sees this, is perform well when asked to anchor our midfield in a big game while his midfield partner gets license to roam offensively.
Why on earth was Fletcher the one who contributed offensively, and Anderson charged to sit and mop up? He was never going to do that well against a top side, due to his lack of defensive nous and positional play.
In the interest of balance, though as Pogue said, he's made improvements. His shooting is a threat, his passing has been more accurate on the whole, he shows for the ball much more, and he's been better at judging when he should go for the incisive through ball and when he should play it simple. I think he's still very much in the process of learning how to effectively play the CM role, bearing in mind he's not a CM by nature at all.
The question is though, which partner gets the best out of him, and for how long can we afford to let Anderson, AND his partner whoever that may be, learn the trade of playing together in CM? Cleverley and Anderson are both great talents, but asking them to be our main partnership in CM when one has basically never played there at this level before, the other one is still learning the art of playing as a midfielder, and neither of them are particularly suited to the defensive side of being a midfielder in the first place, that might be asking too much.
On the flip side, both of them will learn so much by being thrown in at the deep end, and I don't think either of them will sink. They might just take a while to learn how to swim.
What he will never do though, and surely SAF sees this, is perform well when asked to anchor our midfield in a big game while his midfield partner gets license to roam offensively.
Why on earth was Fletcher the one who contributed offensively, and Anderson charged to sit and mop up? He was never going to do that well against a top side, due to his lack of defensive nous and positional play.
In the interest of balance, though as Pogue said, he's made improvements. His shooting is a threat, his passing has been more accurate on the whole, he shows for the ball much more, and he's been better at judging when he should go for the incisive through ball and when he should play it simple. I think he's still very much in the process of learning how to effectively play the CM role, bearing in mind he's not a CM by nature at all.
The question is though, which partner gets the best out of him, and for how long can we afford to let Anderson, AND his partner whoever that may be, learn the trade of playing together in CM? Cleverley and Anderson are both great talents, but asking them to be our main partnership in CM when one has basically never played there at this level before, the other one is still learning the art of playing as a midfielder, and neither of them are particularly suited to the defensive side of being a midfielder in the first place, that might be asking too much.
On the flip side, both of them will learn so much by being thrown in at the deep end, and I don't think either of them will sink. They might just take a while to learn how to swim.
I don't think Anderson has the ability or mentality to be a star player at this club. He has had long enough to prove himself in my opinion and rare flashes of brilliance are not enough to keep him in the starting eleven for me.
We are still there mate. We just don't see the point in tryng to teach sense to folks who never learn....
Has anyone mentioned that he is 23 yet? Tom Cleverley is 22.....
One has played 4 games for the first team and is seen as the most exciting prospect at the club and the saviour of our future and one has played 81 games, won 3 League Titles, a European Cup (and got to 2 other finals), a League Cup and a World Club cup playing a good sized part in all Campaigns yet because he's still not perfectly consistent..... he's berated for it, rather than given the same time to come to his peak. Cleverley has had a handful of good friendly appearances and just 4 competitive starts, is he going to come under the same scrutiny when he can't keep his early form up?
Crazy.
Puts it in a bit of perspective, Pexbo!
The case of Darren Fletcher is what gives me so much patience with Anderson. General opinion of him as a young player made the abuse Darron Gibson gets look kind. You can't really expect all central midfielders to peak at 16 or 18 like Fabregas or Wilshere. Most of them take a while and that's just the way it is.
The problem with Anderson (at least how the fans view him) is that he gets no leeway. It's like he's constantly balancing on the ridge of a mountain and when he falls, he falls all the way down the mountain and when he does well, people think he's a step away from the summit and expect 9/10 every week.
The case of Darren Fletcher is what gives me so much patience with Anderson. General opinion of him as a young player made the abuse Darron Gibson gets look kind. You can't really expect all central midfielders to peak at 16 or 18 like Fabregas or Wilshere. Most of them take a while and that's just the way it is.
The problem with Anderson (at least how the fans view him) is that he gets no leeway. It's like he's constantly balancing on the ridge of a mountain and when he falls, he falls all the way down the mountain and when he does well, people think he's a step away from the summit and expect 9/10 every week.
For all the talent I believe he possesses, he's not even marginally consistent
No he isn't.
Fabregas aside, show me a young centre mid who is consistently at a top class level.
The fact Anderson has reached the level he has in certain games is a testament to his ability at his young age. We should be feel lucky we have a young midfielder capable of playing at that level, not blasting him for not doing it every week. Scholes only reached his consistent level in the same season Anderson is in now.
Anderson is a young centremid and he still needs a good partner to play alongside, he can't do it all on his own. You'll notice the games he struggles in is when he has someone he struggles to play alongside. Fletcher namely, because of Fletchers lack of technicality but also in a two man alongside Carrick who doesn't offer much in the way of short pass and move.
Anderson's best attribute is his short passing and movement and driving runs from deep. You need a partner who can work with you to do that. It's like having a player like Andy Carroll or Peter Crouch and only playing throughballs to them all game. They're going to look pretty shit, put it in the air however and they are a real handful.
Same goes for Anderson, offer him someone who can pass and move, create space and pull the opposition out of shape and he will look like a world beater, have someone sit deep behind him with no space making movement and a partner who recieves the ball and doesn't look for a quick pass or any space and he's got nothing to play with.
This is for me why Cleverley is being hailed as the saviour (ridiculously) by some, because he has the ingredient a lot of our players can feed off.
"Top class"? You can't use that, Fabregas is in a league of his own. How about consistently plays to their ability level, or at least near that level? Banega, Oezil, Sahin, Lucas, Wilshire, Martinez, Busquets etc etc.
He most certainly should not require another midfielder beside him who plays exactly how a midfielder should play in order to get the best out of him. How exactly is that logical in a team where we rotate our midfielders around every few games? A "top class" midfielder shouldn't need to be so reliant on his players around him in order to perform as he can. It of course helps, but it should not be essential.
Who the hell is saying that? There are key differences between Cleverley and Anderson, in that Cleverley was never expected to be as good a midfielder as Anderson (rightly so) was hyped up to be. The pressure was never on him, ok he had talent but not enough to be judged as being the key to all our problems in a few years. Anderson was bought with the idea of him becoming one of our best and most important midfielders because of his blatant talent, and he hasn't done enough, in FIVE years to warrant that.
And comparing him to Scholes in terms of progress? Scholes in contrast to Anderson came on leaps and bounds between the ages of 18 and 23.
Good post!
Let's see. We have lost 1 and draw 4 out of 15 competitive games. That includes games against Cityx2, Arsenal, Chelsea, Tottenham and CL away to Benfica and Galati.
Anderson has played a major part in those games. Thrusted by our manager and so far our first midfield choice. But apparently after one loss and two mediocre games he's shit, some even say he's not United material. Strange view.
When will some of you ever learn??
Agree with the start and finish of your post cina but not so with the 2nd paragraph.
As it is, i actually agree that a midfielder needs players around him that work on a similar wavelength to really bring out the best in him. Now, i'l make it clear from the start that i dont for a moment think that its the only reason why ando hasnt been as good as he should be but it does have an impact.
Look at it this way, would Xavi be the same player he is for barca if he played for say liverpool or everton or for that matter most teams that have midfielders that dont really suit the pass and move style that he thrives upon ? Hell no. Now, ando isnt even in the same league and as i already said that isnt just the issue with his form or consistency but it'd be wrong to totally ignore the impact a midfield partner has on the player in question.
In the absence of cleverley, ando has suddenly started trying more long balls which lets face it, he never was great shakes at. This is because the main creative burden is with him when he's paired with carrick or fletch. Having someone like cleverley who'l pass the ball and move at a good tempo and do their own share of work going forward will definitely do him good i believe.
All said and done, ando's inconsistency is a big concern. he tends to completely lose it once he makes a few mistakes. i genuinely believe its a confidence thing and he needs to be told that few mistakes arent the end of the world. It doesnt have everything to do with his partner as Pexbo would have us believe but i do think its a factor.
I'm not concerned about other young central MFs, I'm concerned about Anderson
I think you're getting a bit carried away here, I don't see much blasting going on, I see more a sense of frustration directed towards a lad who has obvious talent. Also, nobody expects any player to do it "every week", there is a balance to be had, many think Andersons consistency is below that acceptable balance including me.... and I say this regrettably
When Scholes broke into first team he was consistently playing more games as each season progressed -as it should be - Anderson is doing almost the opposite, he played his most league games in his first season I think
In footballing terms, at what age do you stop calling a player young? isn't Anderson 24 or pretty close, isn't this about the time a player should be coming into his own?
You're basically saying here, its Uniteds lack of quality thats hindering him and nothing to do with the player himself
same as above
I'm not letting myself get carried away by the Cleverley hype as many others are, but isn't your quote the sign a great player?
I think who they have alongside them matters a lot. It's been a ery long time since I've seen our central midfield as dynamic as when Cleverley and Anderson play together. It may be down to fitness of other teams but they work incredibly well together. Scholes in his younger days remember had Roy Keane who at times was a one man midfield and that would have allowed the lad a lot of breathing space there. Anderson is fine. Crap at defending but when on song and teamed with Cleverley so far this year has been incredible. Lets hope they it wasn't a fluke and the pair of them can pick up exactly where they left off.
Anderson gets far too much grief. He's gotten better the past couple of seasons, makes himself more available, positions himself better, doesn't throw away possession as much with the notorious Hollywood passes, and has finally found a scoring touch. He might still be dependent on the right man accompanying him, but he's definitely worth sticking with.
Wonderful pass.
Has a great burst of pace and really does well when he utilises it to cut through the opposition.
Can do the odd trick you'd associate with Brazilian flair
Couldn't find a clip of his pass to set up Welbeck's goal against Arsenal at OT, but we all recall it... That's a pass you'd associate with Scholes.
I'm glad we bought him. I was starting to wonder whether he'd step up too, a couple of seasons ago, but he's steadily improved, despite being unlucky with injuries. He was on course to having a stormer against Blackburn last season before he twisted his knee.
Wonderful pass.
Has a great burst of pace and really does well when he utilises it to cut through the opposition.
Can do the odd trick you'd associate with Brazilian flair
Couldn't find a clip of his pass to set up Welbeck's goal against Arsenal at OT, but we all recall it... That's a pass you'd associate with Scholes.
I'm glad we bought him. I was starting to wonder whether he'd step up too, a couple of seasons ago, but he's steadily improved, despite being unlucky with injuries. He was on course to having a stormer against Blackburn last season before he twisted his knee.
Admirable defence of Anderson and I respect that but I simply don't see how he's a Utd player...despite some very creditable pieces of skill there isn't any consistency from him that demonstrates this.
He's not the answer and nor is he the biggest problem right now. He might flourish in Spain but Pogba as an example shows much more ability...not saying he's ready but I can see a Utd star in the making, same with Morrison.I've never really seen it with Anderson and I don't see him here long term
It's hard to predict whether he'll be consistent enough... but take for example Rooney. His talent was there for all to see, but after an electrifying couple of seasons we were wondering whether he'd started to step backwards, whether he'd become a regular goalscorer rather than having purple patches and then periods where we'd persist with him hoping he'd return to form. Add to that a penchant for stupid and petulant kicks and tackles on bad days and you had some valid concerns about Rooney. Add to that the fact that he seemed (seems) to lose stride with a injury to keep him out for a month or two every season at inconvenient junctures, and you have a valid ground for comparison of the two. VERY few would suggest that he should shipped off, and I'm not saying the Anderson case is totally analogous as I'd rate Rooney over him, but I think we've seen him get better, slowly but surely, over the past few seasons. Centre mid is also a trade that requires more maturity and that has a longer learning period than the attacking positions, so I reckon we'd do well to stick by him.
Obviously you're free to doubt that, and I'm assuming this paragraph doesn't change that, but I could see it go either way and reckon Fergie's persisting for a reason.
good post.
Oh don't talk Bollocks. Anderson showed as much ability as Pogba at that age. Much more ability? He's class in the reserves and he's going to be a big player, I have no doubt of that but at Pogba's age Anderson was being trusted against Liverpool, Arsenal and even Chelsea in the European Cup Final. We've seen Pogba in two first team matches, Aldershot and Leeds.
Some people are living in a different world.
If he was Irish and ginger fans would have been baying for his blood...but because he's a loveable samba dancing goof some fans give him a pass. Truth is apart from the occasional streak when he hits form he's never really shown an ability to dominate the midfield or stake claim to that position.
Will it ever happen? I think it's even money at the moment...one things for sure, i don't think he has more then a season or two left before SAF looks towards other options.
Will it ever happen? I think it's even money at the moment...one things for sure, i don't think he has more then a season or two left before SAF looks towards other options.
Like people here said, it all comes down to consistency. Of course he can play in midfield. But you never know what you'll get from him. On his day, he's unplayable. On his bad days, he must be horrible to play with.
I don't accept the Fletcher excuse. Or whatever partner excuse. Yes, of course the question of who you play with could affect your own form, definitely. But it's not a good enough reason to explain such huge shifts in performance.
I don't accept the Fletcher excuse. Or whatever partner excuse. Yes, of course the question of who you play with could affect your own form, definitely. But it's not a good enough reason to explain such huge shifts in performance.
fecking bullshit
In light of the Terry-Anton situation, we now have reverse racism! Now we have a potential "you small white cock" situation!! 
This imo is exactly why alot of people will give him time. He could be like Deco in that he didn't make a massive impact until he was 25/26 and then was consistently one of the best midfielders in the world until he was sold to Chelsea.
In saying that, Andersons home form last season was fantastic, and started this season well. He's struggled in the last few games, but he's now got a good run to rebuild his confidence. The good thing about this season though is that he's been playing half decently away from home. Something we've not seen ever in his United career. People just need to stop expecting Ronaldo and Messi type careers where they hit their peak years from and early age. Both Scholes and Keane were at their absolute best from the 26/32 year age bracket. Why should Ando be any different? I expect Xavi to drop off aswell in the next couple of years as he starts to lose that extra yard of pace.
I'm not concerned about his potential or his ability.
It's clear to me though that we're trying to make him into something he isn't, an all-action CM who defends as well as he attacks. He won't become that over night, and this hinders his development somehow, although it might benefit him in the long run.
He should play as an AM without all that defensive responsibility, but I'm not really sure he's got the creativity, the arrogance and the productivity to play there - he might have developed that if we'd gone with that role for him from the get-go, but I don't think he will now. One of his absolutely best matches for us was at the Bridge against Chelsea, when playing off Rooney in that role.
He's an enigma, this guy, and I'm not sure if he'll live up to his full potential. But if anyone can get the best out of him, it's SAF.
It's clear to me though that we're trying to make him into something he isn't, an all-action CM who defends as well as he attacks. He won't become that over night, and this hinders his development somehow, although it might benefit him in the long run.
He should play as an AM without all that defensive responsibility, but I'm not really sure he's got the creativity, the arrogance and the productivity to play there - he might have developed that if we'd gone with that role for him from the get-go, but I don't think he will now. One of his absolutely best matches for us was at the Bridge against Chelsea, when playing off Rooney in that role.
He's an enigma, this guy, and I'm not sure if he'll live up to his full potential. But if anyone can get the best out of him, it's SAF.
I'm not saying he should be expected to be as good as he could be with someone who suits him down to the ground beside him. That's too much to ask of any mid. But the difference in him when he does have someone who suits him, and when he doesn't is massive at times, and that's too much for me. Surely a top midfielder should at least still be able to perform well despite him not having his ideal partner beside him?
Ofcourse. my point was more in general about midfielders. I said in my post that it was not the only reason for ando's poor performances. But it is one of the factors as would be the case for any midfielder.
Carrick, Fletcher and Gibson called...they told me, to tell you... to kindly shut the feck up.
j/k...
There's a case to be made here for fans having less patience with him because he's Brazilian and is expected to be a cracking footballer already because of this.
4+ years is hardly impatient
The lad is amazingly talented. He just needs to be far far more consistent. He's only young so I'm pretty confident that the consistency side of it will eventually come.
You make some good points. I see him also as an AM. The key thing is the system we play and his partner. If we are to continue with Anderson (and I dearly hope we do) we need the right partner for the team and the right partner for him.
The right partner for him: It seems like everyone thinks the right partner for him is a partner who will shoulder his defensive responsibility. I'm not quite sure this is correct. Yes Carrick can do that but Anderson needs someone on the same wavelength who can play CLOSE TO HIM.
The other point is that we're not necessarily looking at a partner but rather partner(S) as Anderson in a 3 would also work - and I guess here 1 partner has defensive responsibility and this allows the full backs to push forward (as they did against City on Sunday) but with more midfield discipline.
The right partner for the team:
Whoever it is they need to play close together so that the two of them link with the wingers all the way up to the strikers. This is the short precise passing we want to see and the key to unlocking Anderson and unlocking the team.
Yes we lacked defensive discipline but this wasn't Anderson's fault. He didn't gel at any time with Fletcher because Fletcher not at the same level - it's a completely different type of football for Fletcher -but also Fletcher still needs matches to get match fit.
Anyone who is talking about a midfield enforcer is in the dark ages I'm afraid. We're one of the top 3 teams in the world at present. No one of the other 2 teams has a midfield enforcer. What they have are all the players can play one-touch, fluid, & mobile football taking the ball in tight awkward positions and passing quickly.
We don't have enough of these in central midfield yet. Pogba will be able to do it, Morrison can do it and gave a glimpse of this on Tuesday. Fletcher cannot and Carrick used to be able to do it!
He needs a performance. He really, really does. I just don't think he will ever be consistent enough.
Normal service well and truly resumed lately.
I look forward to him looking like a professional football player again. Not holding my breath though.
Fergie won't put up with that half assed shit for long.
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