Anderson

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You really think he is going to be first choice one day?

I think he will one day be good enough, but Fergie doesn't have "first choice" anymore, it's about him improving to the point he's "first choice" when/if a new manager comes along during his career.

Only at that point and that point only will we know if Anderson is or is not good enough.
 
I've only watched the first half of the game, getting onto the second now, but if anyone was invisible last night it was Anderson. Carrick was the best midfielder on the pitch in the first half, played the best pass of the half and gave us composure in midfield that we sorely lack without him(or with Anderson, basically).

He doesn't find space well enough, again referring back to yesterday he struggled to find space so much(despite every one of our other midfielders finding plenty of it) that Rooney had to do his job and Anderson's job, dropping deep to keep the play flowing when Anderson was just wandering about aimlessly.

Gets even worse after half-time, believe me.

The finding space bit is a very good point. I'm not sure if this is a lack of footballing intelligence or what but he sometimes seems to expect his team-mates to get the ball to him by passing through an opposition player.

It's incredibly annoying to watch, especially in a game like yesterday where even a fairly technically limited player like Fletch was able to find acres of time and space on the ball but Anderson basically watched the whole game pass him by.

All the more frustrating because when he's playing well he's a bundle of energy, popping up all over the pitch. When he's having a bad game he's painfully invisible, doesn't even seem to be putting in much of an effort (although I'm sure he is) and is almost never in the right areas to take the simple passes we need to keep midfield ticking over.
 
Gets even worse after half-time, believe me.

The finding space bit is a very good point. I'm not sure if this is a lack of footballing intelligence or what but he sometimes seems to expect his team-mates to get the ball to him by passing through an opposition player.

It's incredibly annoying to watch, especially in a game like yesterday where even a fairly technically limited player like Fletch was able to find acres of time and space on the ball but Anderson basically watched the whole game pass him by.

To be fair, I thought Jong did a job on Anderson.
 
Yes Scholesy.

But we all know your viewpoint. There really isn't one guy who thinks technique can't be improved after 16 years other than you. You don't like the lad we get it.

We on the Other hand and i hope i write for Searl here, are prepared to wait for another year or two, to see if he is able to bring out his talent.

Ok, we will be patient and wait then. I read people say the exact same things 2 years ago about Anderson.

I do like him, but I cant understand the hype he gets on here.
 
Gets even worse after half-time, believe me.

The finding space bit is a very good point. I'm not sure if this is a lack of footballing intelligence or what but he sometimes seems to expect his team-mates to get the ball to him by passing through an opposition player.

It's incredibly annoying to watch, especially in a game like yesterday where even a fairly technically limited player like Fletch was able to find acres of time and space on the ball but Anderson basically watched the whole game pass him by.

All the more frustrating because when he's playing well he's a bundle of energy, popping up all over the pitch. When he's having a bad game he's painfully invisible, doesn't even seem to be putting in much of an effort (although I'm sure he is) and is almost never in the right areas to take the simple passes we need to keep midfield ticking over.

Fletcher is miles ahead technically over Anderson. Much easier on the eye.

I would say Fletcher is technically one of our best players.
 
To be fair, I thought Jong did a job on Anderson.

Jong played very well but Anderson could and should have had as much time on the ball as Carrick and Fletcher (who both seemed to be constantly on the ball).

Instead he ended up completely peripheral. I can't remember a single positive contribution from him all game.
 
Ok, we will be patient and wait then. I read people say the exact same things 2 years ago about Anderson.

I do like him, but I cant understand the hype he gets on here.

Really? So who here expected a youngster all of 25 games in the Professional level to come good in two years?

He's just 21 for God's sake. He's played just about (give or take) a Hundred matches in his ENTIRE professional career. Starting from Germio. Its not like he's playing like Liam Miller in every game is it?. He had a very consistent run sometime in October. There is improvement and i'm prepared to wait.
 
Fletcher is miles ahead technically over Anderson. Much easier on the eye.

I would say Fletcher is technically one of our best players.

You;re the last person on here I want to get in a debate with about technique but Fletcher is no Scholes when it comes to using footwork his first touch to create some space for himself (although he's much better at it this season). Which is the point I was making.
 
Really? So who here expected a youngster all of 25 games in the Professional level to come good in two years?

He's just 21 for God's sake. He's played just about (give or take) a Hundred matches in his ENTIRE professional career. Starting from Germio. Its not like he's playing like Liam Miller in every game is it?. He had a very consistent run sometime in October. There is improvement and i'm prepared to wait.

Nope. About every second game, by my estimation.
 
Ok, we will be patient and wait then. I read people say the exact same things 2 years ago about Anderson.

I do like him, but I cant understand the hype he gets on here.

2 years ago? He was a teenager and was barely signed, of course we had high hopes.

He doesn't get "hype" here, we rate his potential, I don't see a single member on this website rating Anderson's performance yesterday, or any of his poor performances, higher than they should because of who he is.

You can't stand him, don't try and say you like him, etc... You don't, period... You hope he crashes and burns, and somehow Spurs fall off the face of the earth so your lovely Luka Modric partners Fletcher.

At the age of 21 years old, there is no reason in hell to write off a player... 23, 24, 25? Yes, then it's time to consider options... The money involved makes him a long-term investment, as well as Nani, which is why we should be giving them time.

It's not their fault we shelled the cash to bring them in, rating them much higher than they may be, because of the finance tagged with their names...
 
You;re the last person on here I want to get in a debate with about technique but Fletcher is no Scholes when it comes to using footwork his first touch to create some space for himself (although he's much better at it this season). Which is the point I was making.

Fletcher's touch is better than Andersons though.

Fletcher is the only midfield player who is sort of composed in the final third, but I agree not on the same level as Scholes(in his prime).
 
Fletch and Carrick ticks all those boxes.

1. Carrick and Fletcher both do very well, especially as a duo.

2. Likewise.

3. Penetrative passes don't equate to through balls or defence splitting passes, that's very simplistic and thus very wrong. Carrick's always been very good at playing the delicate, inviting pass that creates space over a short distance and it's led to him being involved as the second or third assister in a lot of our goals, more in the previous three seasons than this. Fletcher's getting better at playing a creative pass but he's not great at it. Think both have room for improvement here, Fletcher more so.

4. Carrick does this very well, Fletcher does it well. Scholes does it magnificently, better than we'll see from a midfielder in our team for another few years yet(at least), I reckon.

5. Barca's midfield aren't great from range, they're still far and away the best midfielder around, proof enough that that's not what you need in midfield i's just a useful add-on.


Midfield Checklist:

1.A midfield needs to be able win the ball, through intercepting on the floor or aerially.

Carrick and Fletch, and Hargreaves waiting in the wings, we possibly are up there in world football if not the best in this regard due to the depth we have in this aspect of midfield play.

2.A midfield needs to retain posession.

I'm sorry but we are poor here, Chelsea, Arsenal, Barca, Madrid all keep posession better than us. Carrick and Fletch would not as a pairing top any of these sides in retaining posession 'effortlessly'.


3.A midfield needs to be able to create chances, via through balls or long range defence splitting passes.

Awful at this, we rarely create chances from central midfield.. hark back to the day of Scholsey threading through balls and the strikers putting them away, these days we rely on Wayne coming deep and thread balls through and then also expect him to finish his own chances:confused:.

Arsenal consistently create plenty of chances through midfield, Barca of course, Chelsea are also pretty creative with Lampard threading good balls and J.Cole/Deco supplying some creativity too at the tip of the diamond.
Madrid have Kaka/V d Vaart, Alonso.

4.A midfield needs to be able to spread the play.

We are decent at this, Carrick stands out at being able to do this... Ando less so and is erratic. We usually are able to get the ball out wide, so no problems in this regard.

5.A midfield must be able to exert concerted pressure in an opponents half and be dangerous from long range (shoot whenever there is an opening).

Little to no threat at all from long range, none of our midfielders are great shakes at long range shooting. As you've alluded to Brwned its a bonus, likes of Arsenal and Barca don't really score much from long range.. but with the Gunners they have Fabregas devloping this side of his game and Ramsey will soon be capable of striking from long range at a consistent level. Barca may solve this problem by signing Fabregas...

Chelsea have Essien, Ballack, Deco, Lampard .. so they're hardly found wanting in this department.

I think apart from number 1. and 4., we are found wanting in quite a few aspects and the ones i'd label as crucial in an attacking sense.
 
My Guess is that we tried/are trying to convert him into a more rounded player.

Ever Banega has had more seasons and more games in the professional setup than Anderson.


Hot and Cold? I'd guess we'd consider him a young lad worth waiting for to mature. If he remains the same in say 2 years time or at most 3. Then yes he'd be a flop.

Anderson has started more games for Manchester United than Ever Banega has started in his whole professional career. Thats 69 for Anderson in all competitions and 57 for Banega's club career. Anderson also has the 37 games for Gremio and Porto to go on top of the 69 for us. Anderson is vastly more experienced in all levels - club, champions league, international. He just isnt as good at the moment, no excuses. He's still a very good young prospect.
 
Ever Banega is the dogs bollocks.

I have seen a lot of him in the last few weeks - Valencia seem to always be on Sky at the moment.

So impressed with him - he scored a cracker against Villareal at the weekend. He is such a good passer of the ball and he covers so much ground.

Hes the one thats making Valencia tick this season.

It's quite funny because it has took him some time to settle in Spain. He was hugely dissapointing in his first year at Valencia under Koeman and then got flogged to Atletico Madrid where he didnt really impress much either. Seems like he's finally found a rich vein of form though. He is an immense player when he wants to be.
 
It's quite funny because it has took him some time to settle in Spain. He was hugely dissapointing in his first year at Valencia under Koeman and then got flogged to Atletico Madrid where he didnt really impress much either. Seems like he's finally found a rich vein of form though. He is an immense player when he wants to be.

So he wasn't the dog's bollocks for the past two seasons and has turned it up this past two months?
 
C'mon Pogue thats very harsh.

Apart from yesterday the only other game that i remember he was a liam miller incarnate was Burnley away. Surely you give that point.

It would probably be easier to come up with the his good games this season.

I'll kick things off with Chelsea at Stamford Bridge.

He was also good(ish) against Wolfsburg away (although Wolfsburg probably won the midfield battle in that game)

After that... hmmm...
 
So he wasn't the dog's bollocks for the past two seasons and has turned it up this past two months?

He always had the ability, he's still young. He certainly was a big dissapointment the past 2 seasons though, otherwise Valencia wouldnt have flogged him and the same reason Atletico Madrid didnt want him on a permanent basis.
 
He always had the ability, he's still young. He certainly was a big dissapointment the past 2 seasons though, otherwise Valencia wouldnt have flogged him and the same reason Atletico Madrid didnt want him on a permanent basis.

Very much like our wee Anderson?

Can someone tell me a site where i can find player stats, games played in etc etc. I'm struggling with google at the moment.
 
It's quite funny because it has took him some time to settle in Spain. He was hugely dissapointing in his first year at Valencia under Koeman and then got flogged to Atletico Madrid where he didnt really impress much either. Seems like he's finally found a rich vein of form though. He is an immense player when he wants to be.

It did take a while to settle. He had his youtube sex exploits ala Ashley Young soon after arriving. He wasnt dissappointing in his first season at Valencia, he was a 19 year old who had moments of brilliance. Just not enough to save a struggling side who Koeman was trying to get relegated and he only came in the Jan transfer window. It didnt help that David Villa was struggling with injuries that season. Banega had a couple of games that season, thats all. He then chose to go with Argentina to the Olympics and win a gold medal with them, even though Emery had asked everyone to report to pre-season training early to try and sort things out and have a better season.

When he returned from his exploits with that Argentina side, Emery didnt want him involved that season and so they sent him to Atletico. I think spending time with Aguero and Maxi, other Argentines, might be whats helped Ever Banega settle in Spain coming into this season. However, last season at Atletico he only got a few starts as they used a midfield rotation policy and the manager who took over during the season is known to have a preferance for Spanish players. As the season went on, Banega would come off the bench regularly if Atletico were in need of a goal as he was their one midfielder who has some amount of a clue going forward, as Atletico played with 2 defensive minded central midfielders and let the two wingers and two strikers do almost all the attacking. Still, some reports suggest that after his loan period Atletico had the option of buying Banega for around 13 million euros. If they turned that down they must be choking themselves right now.
 
The day Banega convinced me was when Valencia lost to R.Madrid at home.His performance in that match specially against Lassana made me realize how good he is and how good he could become
 
It did take a while to settle. He had his youtube sex exploits ala Ashley Young soon after arriving. He wasnt dissappointing in his first season at Valencia, he was a 19 year old who had moments of brilliance. Just not enough to save a struggling side who Koeman was trying to get relegated and he only came in the Jan transfer window. It didnt help that David Villa was struggling with injuries that season. Banega had a couple of games that season, thats all. He then chose to go with Argentina to the Olympics and win a gold medal with them, even though Emery had asked everyone to report to pre-season training early to try and sort things out and have a better season.

When he returned from his exploits with that Argentina side, Emery didnt want him involved that season and so they sent him to Atletico. I think spending time with Aguero and Maxi, other Argentines, might be whats helped Ever Banega settle in Spain coming into this season. However, last season at Atletico he only got a few starts as they used a midfield rotation policy and the manager who took over during the season is known to have a preferance for Spanish players. As the season went on, Banega would come off the bench regularly if Atletico were in need of a goal as he was their one midfielder who has some amount of a clue going forward, as Atletico played with 2 defensive minded central midfielders and let the two wingers and two strikers do almost all the attacking. Still, some reports suggest that after his loan period Atletico had the option of buying Banega for around 13 million euros. If they turned that down they must be choking themselves right now.

I saw alot of Atletico games last year, and ones which Banega played in he was really inconsistent until final stretch of the season he started playing alot better. Showed his immaturity alot aswell picking up alot of needless bookings but im sure he'll learn as he's still young. Its good to see him showing his promise that made Koeman bring him to Spain in the first place. Think the boy has a massive future ahead of him if he keeps this up.
 
I saw alot of Atletico games last year, and ones which Banega played in he was really inconsistent until final stretch of the season he started playing alot better. Showed his immaturity alot aswell picking up alot of needless bookings but im sure he'll learn as he's still young. Its good to see him showing his promise that made Koeman bring him to Spain in the first place. Think the boy has a massive future ahead of him if he keeps this up.

Yeah, I've seen his every match in spanish football. Although I actually had never heard of him until Valencia had signed him, since Gago went to Madrid I hadnt paid any attention to Argentine football. Funny thing is that he was the player who would come in and replace Gago at 17 years old, so clearly I should have continued to watch.

Anyway - Banega did and still does at times, make rash challenges. In that way you can see he still needs to mature as a footballer. However, on the ball he plays like a much more mature player, the same with when he was at Atletico. He'd feed the ball into Aguero and Forlan and really have an impact on the games. Even last season when playing for Atletico against Barcelona, he had an impressive game and almost scored a quality 25 yard strike.

Coming into this season he certainly had his doubters. On the Valencia site I post on the majority of the posters didnt think much of him, though I suspect few actually bothered to follow his matches at Atletico. Of course I assured them he would be their next star player, I didnt think he'd be quite as good as he's been this season where he's been their man of the match in all but a few matches. And thats not easy to do when David Villa is top scorer or joint top scorer in the league.
 
It's quite funny because it has took him some time to settle in Spain. He was hugely dissapointing in his first year at Valencia under Koeman and then got flogged to Atletico Madrid where he didnt really impress much either. Seems like he's finally found a rich vein of form though. He is an immense player when he wants to be.

Yep, its taken him a bit of time.

I think though under Koeman, everyone at Valencia were crap.
 
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