Giggs was clearly better too, Rooney and Kagawa also did more in terms of attacking play, especially in the first half.
Antonio Valencia... | Will wear #25 shirt from this point onwards by request
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Giggs was clearly better too, Rooney and Kagawa also did more in terms of attacking play, especially in the first half.
Well if you will call praise for what was obviously a very good performance "so overboard" then you're obviously in denial about something. You can argue the toss about great vs very good vs good (the co-commentator on sky said "excellent", as it happens) but that distracts from what was a really effective individual performance. Which was worthy of the praise he's getting.
I completely forgot about Giggsy, I kinda disagree when it comes to the other two.
Agreed. Kagawa and Rooney (especially kagawa) had their moments going forwards but Valencia consistently caused Villa more problems.
Gary Neville also said a few months ago that he was having a good season and is always a big threat, I'll take what Sky say with a pinch of salt, they haven't criticized him at all this year.
I think he was good, mainly in the second half (when the game was already won) but I didn't see anything great from him, certainly showed signs that he has the Valencia of old in him and hopefully he'll come back stronger next season.
Actually, Giggs would be up there. Gave the ball away a lot though. As is his wont.
Well I mean, if you put any stock in whoscored.com, then Valencia was our third best attacking player last night (which I would agree with by the way) with a 8.1/10... and I'd also have probably given him an 8 for last night, which I would classify as somewhere between very good and great (9 is excellent, 10 outstanding).
He caused there left back all sorts of problems last night, I'd say Bennett was probably the worst outfield player for Villa in fact.
He caused there left back all sorts of problems last night, I'd say Bennett was probably the worst outfield player for Villa in fact.
Even in poor form, he's having more of an impact on matches. I've updated the post to include club and country and assist stats.
Robben's statistics (Club & Country)...
- 2012/13: 11 Goals/11 assists (28 Starts (9 Sub)
- 2011/2012: 18 goals/6 Assists (29 Starts (7 Subs)
- 2010/2011: 17 goals/10 assists (21 Starts (4 subs))
- 2009/10: 24 goals/9 Assists (35 Starts/8 Subs)
http://espnfc.com/player/_/id/11137/arjen-robben?cc=5739
Valencia Statistics..
- 2012/13 : 2 goals/6 Assists (35 Starts/10 Subs)
- 2011/12: 6 goals/16 Assists (38 Starts/6 Subs)
- 2010/11: 3 goals/ 3 assists (15 Starts/5 Subs)
- 2009/10: 9 Goals/12 Assists (40 Starts/12 Subs)
Valencia was good last night, I don't see how anyone can disagree with that.. he outperformed Kagawa, he was on the ball alot and influential.
personally I think RvP, Jones, Giggs, Rafael and Evra were all better than him. On reflection there probably wasn't much difference between him, Rooney and Kagawa.
Not putting a downer on him, we just had a lot of really strong performances last night.
Not putting a downer on him, we just had a lot of really strong performances last night.
I think I saw you talking out of your arse in the matchday thread, Cina. 'Valencia is so shite in comparison with the rest of us' or something. Right at the moment he was linking up superbly with Rafael on the right. Cringeworthy. You really can't get over it.
You mean this in the first half?
Definitely the exact same thing and you're not pulling it out of context at all.
Followed by this in the second half?
And this in his thread towards the latter part of the game?
maybe I just call it like I see it and don't actually have any dislike for Valencia like you and others seem to think, just because I like Nani. In fact I like Valencia a lot and in previous years I have had absolutely nothing but praise for him. But whatever, keep thinking what you will.
Valencia had a good game but let's see if he can do it against top level defenders again, or even Premier League standard players.
Much better from Valencia yesterday, actually took on his man instead of slowing the game down and stopping on the ball. Still think we could do with another winger though
Fair enough, only lurked there after the first half. I'm not the only one who thinks you tend to go OTT with regards to Valencia. Which will probably cease now that he seems (touch wood) to have regained a bit of form.
You don't seem to get the point. Your definition of "good" is not everybody's definition of "good". Some people will refer to an 8/10 as good, some people refer to a 3/10 as good. Some people don't even think in terms of 1/10.
My definition of GOOD(in this situation) is a player who showed that he is a very strong link in United. I don't think Valencia of yesterday reaches that level, he would not be a very strong link for us even if he had constant games like yesterday. In fact if he played every game like he did yesterday, he would be the worst player in our first eleven bar possibly the LW position.
If Valencia played for Aston Villa, I would also deem him good yesterday and would praise him for his display.
I should again add though that I agree Valencia was good for being him - this season.
That second paragraph is completely mental. Amazing.
That truly is a baffling paragraph... I'm not even sure how to approach it.
I probably have gone overboard at times this season but that's more so to do with being disappointed with the lack of game time Nani has gotten despite our other wingers poor performances than actually not liking Valencia as a player. When he was at his worst and some posters were calling for his head and to get rid I was never, ever in that brigade and always maintained he still had the quality hidden in him and needs another chance.
Anyway, now that I know Nani is off I really couldn't give a feck anymore and I hope to god Valencia does get back to his best next season.
I knew there were issues around people defining things differently, notably with terms like "world class". It never occurred to me the word "good" could be so contentious though. This message board business is a minefield of misunderstanding.
Er, not gonna read the last few pages of shitstorm, but I think he's been pretty feckin' good for the last couple of games. He was excellent last night. Delighted for him! 
Its good (by which I mean satisfying, uplifting: causing happiness and relief) to see his form coming back. Hopefully it will be beneficial for him over the summer, relieving some of the pressure build up after a relatively indifferent season, meaning he can hit the ground running in September.
I honestly couldn't care a rats ass if he was better than Giggs, Kagawa or Rooney or vice versa, because one thing that cannot be denied is that Valencia is finding form again and that's brilliant. A strong finish to the season could see him come back and reach the heights we know he can.
His confidence is coming back which is nice to see.
All he is lacking is letting himself stretch his legs as he still seems reluctant to go and beat a man
When he starts doing this again I will say he's returned.
All he is lacking is letting himself stretch his legs as he still seems reluctant to go and beat a man
When he starts doing this again I will say he's returned.
I'd agree that his performances have improved gradually but the second half performance was easily the best performance all season from him. It's not necessarily what he was doing but the way he was doing it - his mannerisms were so different. He had that "I'm going to feck you up" body shape whilst running at the full back for the first time this season on a consistent basis. You say that about instantaneous changes but that's how confidence can affect a person. When the pressure's off, a pretty sharp increase in performance can follow on from that. To me (although it is obviously speculation), that's what look to have happened in that second half.
Seems obvious that there's been something a bit mentally off about him. Watching him for Ecuador not too long ago was proof of this - he was pretty much exactly the player of last season in that match. That point came about a month ago when he was playing so poorly that I was wondering whether we'd ever again see half the level of performance we'd seen from him in the past. Given the nature of these two matches, I'd maintain that those performances were indeed quite telling.
Hopefully this is the way back for him. I love Valencia (not like...literally) in that he's such a rare breed so this season has been quite painful viewing on that front.
What in the name of all that is holy does any of this mean?
If Anderson got five years and then some to prove his worth, surely Tony gets at least 1 more season.
Tony V has already proved his worth. All he has to do know is prove he can do what lots of other players have done. Put a single underwhelming season behind him and get back to his best.
In a year we absolutely ran away with the title and may get a record amount of points. With Ferguson insisting on playing him so much, you kind of get the idea the Sir Alex gets something that the footballing geniuses here don't.
I would say he's been a regular and regardless what you think Fergie believes.. His overall standard this year has been poor.
he admitted himself he's had a poor season and has gone through numerous spells where Fergie has dropped him, if anything he's been in the team by default at times because of Nani's issues and Young's injuries. I'm sure if we had stronger wingers than the ones currently at our disposal, there's no way SAF would have persisted with him like he has. Luckily for him in recent weeks, SAF has lost all interest in Nani, and Young is injured again, so he's been getting plenty of games, and actually improving this time.
He offers us two things that Ferguson values: Width and Defensive protection.
Don't for a minute try to fool us that he's been offering anything else offensively. 1 Goal and 4 Assists isn't good enough in 30 appearances.
Totally agree with this. I think it has freed up Rafael to become one of the premier right backs in the world. And with the width he provides, he also has been constantly attracting two defenders, which I also think has affected his form and performance. But don't think for a minute that Fergie doesn't realize this, as he managed United to an extremely successful season. And I would say 1 goal, 4 assists in 30 appearances in quite good enough considering the year we've had. Team > individual, the United way.
Not again. You argued the same thing throughout the season, even when he was playing with the worst form he's ever shown. Valencia has clearly not had a good season this year, there is no debating it. He's looked better in recent games, and looked absolutely great yesterday, but this was not a good season for him at all. You keep making this bizarre link between our records points challenge and Valencia, as if the two go hand-in-hand and the reason we keep playing him is also the reason we keep winning.
The reason Valencia played so much was down to the lack of alternatives, the same argument we had months back, except it's now even worse with Nani seemingly frozen out. It was not because Valencia has been in great form, or demonstrated great form on a consistent basis.
I do think he will bounce back from this season though and return to the usual Valencia we are used to seeing.
At least last night should put an end to the ridiculous argument that Valencia "has lost a step or two" - just as fast as ever and just as bloody strong.
It's not though, it's pretty rubbish. Part of the reason we've looked so on and off this season is because of the quality of our wingers, not in spite on them. We know he is much better than that, and had he played the majority of games like he did yesterday, he'd have three times those stats easily.
My sentiments exactly.
Or that all defenders in the league have simultaneously worked him out and there's no going back from here...Confidence and mentality is all there is to it, he'll hopefully sort out both over the pre-season and be back to normal.
I think it's a riddle of some kind...
http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11667/8667399/Premier-League-Manchester-United-ace-Antonio-Valencia-wants-to-stay
I really hope this was the case for his poor showings.
It was less than a year ago when the matchday thread were starting with posts like: "Just pass it to Valencia and we'll win."
Your opinions are absolutely ridiculous regarding Valencia this season Nobby. Overall he was shit, accept it, move on and hope he's better next year. Why you see the need to defend him by putting him playing and our great points tally hand in hand is just beyond me.
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