Antonio Valencia... | Will wear #25 shirt from this point onwards by request

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Count Duckula said:
fecking hell :wenger:

He has great days and he has shit days. He's certainly still bedding in, but when he does play well he plays very well.

But to say he's a frontrunner for our player of the season? Madness.
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Other than the players mentioned, who's done better than him on a consistent basis? We've been individually patchy enough this season. It's the sort of year when a bloke like him might feature in the awards.
 
He's been good, very good infact. But player of the season? Don't be silly.
 
Brophs said:
Other than the players mentioned, who's done better than him on a consistent basis? We've been individually patchy enough this season. It's the sort of year when a bloke like him might feature in the awards.
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Right up there with Giggs and Rooney, that's for sure, who have had as many bad games as Valencia but tend to be more readily excused because everyone knows they're just having an off day. When Valencia has an off day he's suddenly not United quality. Valencia also deserves credit for picking up as the season's gone on, despite playing more games than almost any other attacking player.

Evra and Fletcher have been our most consitently effective players though (despite one or two jaded games from Evra after playing stupid amounts of football) so I would say they're out in front, with Rooney, Giggs and Valencia close behind them.
 
What I'm most impressed with is that he's consistently looked better. Most new players will have a good first few games because they want to make an impression and then plateau a little. Valencia's performance graph for the most part keeps getting better and better.
 
I think Valencia has had a slightly better season than Fletcher.

Largely because Fletcher has only started half our league games in midfield.

So, Valencia is definitely in our top performers this season. Well done, and long may it continue!
 
Mid season assessment; He's been a success.Don't really see how that can be disputed.

As for player of the season.It's a bit early needless to say. Evra is out in front IMO
 
The cafe MOTM points table will tell us whether he's one of our best players so far. My guess is that he is.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Giggs and Rooney...have had as many bad games as Valencia but tend to be more readily excused because everyone knows they're just having an off day. When Valencia has an off day he's suddenly not United quality.
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Exactly right.
 
Rowem said:
I think Valencia has had a slightly better season than Fletcher.

Largely because Fletcher has only started half our league games in midfield.

So, Valencia is definitely in our top performers this season. Well done, and long may it continue!
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Despite that, Fletcher has had more stand out performances. Valencia took quite a while to get going.
 
He is class. Would benefit from a player who would help stretch the defense playing up front. Both of our front men play in front of the defence...making him the only player willing to run passed them.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Right up there with Giggs and Rooney, that's for sure, who have had as many bad games as Valencia but tend to be more readily excused because everyone knows they're just having an off day. When Valencia has an off day he's suddenly not United quality. Valencia also deserves credit for picking up as the season's gone on, despite playing more games than almost any other attacking player.

Evra and Fletcher have been our most consitently effective players though (despite one or two jaded games from Evra after playing stupid amounts of football) so I would say they're out in front, with Rooney, Giggs and Valencia close behind them.
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Agreeing with this. I think if you were expecting more than what Valencia's brought to the table so far, then you're a bit silly. He's definitely up there as one of our best and most consistent players this season.
 
I love Valencia so far, but I am the only one who thinks he slows us down with some indecisive moves when he gets the ball? He is so fecking quick without or chasing the ball, but with the ball at his feet, he often stops or hesitate and it bugs the hell out of me.
 
Maybe it was a cunning plan on Valencia's behalf. Started of playing shit & crushed all our hopes immediatly. This gave him a much lower base point to start from. Hence why his recent very good performances have been lauded so much!!
 
Count Duckula said:
fecking hell :wenger:

He has great days and he has shit days. He's certainly still bedding in, but when he does play well he plays very well.

But to say he's a frontrunner for our player of the season? Madness.
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I dont think it's madness at all, the game against Leeds was crying out for him after the naff performance by Obertan and Welbeck on the wings and he delivered when he came on creating two brilliant chances. When you realise how much you're missing him when things aren't going well that's the testimont to how well he's been doing for us.

I'd say he's easily up there with Evra & Rooney for our player of the season thus far IMO
 
considering that it's his first season with us i think he's done great...needs to use his left foot more though, going to be a very good signing.
 
I genuinly wonder if I watch different games to some of you, because I find Valencia exceptionally frustrating to watch. Run at defender. Pause. Pass ball backwards. Sometimes lose possession with weak attempt at a pass. He's like Ji Sung Park with pace, but then again I know I'm in the minortiy with my dislike of Park, too.

He's not bad by any means, but I don't think he would get into any of United's "great sides". The '94 team, the '99 team and the '08 team would all be much worse off for having him, and that's how I judge a player. When you replace the best player you've had for nearly forty years you expect real quality to come in, not someone who'll perform well but not brilliantly. We needed a player to come in who could make the difference on his own if he had to. Valencia can't, and never will.
 
Count Duckula said:
I genuinly wonder if I watch different games to some of you, because I find Valencia exceptionally frustrating to watch. Run at defender. Pause. Pass ball backwards. Sometimes lose possession with weak attempt at a pass. He's like Ji Sung Park with pace, but then again I know I'm in the minortiy with my dislike of Park, too.

He's not bad by any means, but I don't think he would get into any of United's "great sides". The '94 team, the '99 team and the '08 team would all be much worse off for having him, and that's how I judge a player. When you replace the best player you've had for nearly forty years you expect real quality to come in, not someone who'll perform well but not brilliantly. We needed a player to come in who could make the difference on his own if he had to. Valencia can't, and never will.
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I agree but I also expect a barrage of abuse to follow:nervous: He's a solid winger who works hard and has pace to burn. Apart from that he doesn't have much in his locker for me. For a pro he's so one footed it beggars belief, not the best crosser of the ball and def not the most skillful of wingers. Lots of improvement to come I feel and I'm confident he'll be a good long term signing but this talk of him being "class" and our best signing in a few years are wide of the mark imo. Against Leeds we realised how much we missed him and I think thats an indictment of our overall creativity.
 
Count Duckula said:
I genuinly wonder if I watch different games to some of you, because I find Valencia exceptionally frustrating to watch. Run at defender. Pause. Pass ball backwards. Sometimes lose possession with weak attempt at a pass. He's like Ji Sung Park with pace, but then again I know I'm in the minortiy with my dislike of Park, too.

He's not bad by any means, but I don't think he would get into any of United's "great sides". The '94 team, the '99 team and the '08 team would all be much worse off for having him, and that's how I judge a player. When you replace the best player you've had for nearly forty years you expect real quality to come in, not someone who'll perform well but not brilliantly. We needed a player to come in who could make the difference on his own if he had to. Valencia can't, and never will.
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So really it's all about you having unrealistic expectations for whoever came in to replace Ronaldo, and doesn't at all reflect on Valencia's performances this season.

Or you're just being a wum.

Either way, glad that's sorted out.
 
Count Duckula said:
I genuinly wonder if I watch different games to some of you, because I find Valencia exceptionally frustrating to watch. Run at defender. Pause. Pass ball backwards. Sometimes lose possession with weak attempt at a pass. He's like Ji Sung Park with pace, but then again I know I'm in the minortiy with my dislike of Park, too.

He's not bad by any means, but I don't think he would get into any of United's "great sides". The '94 team, the '99 team and the '08 team would all be much worse off for having him, and that's how I judge a player. When you replace the best player you've had for nearly forty years you expect real quality to come in, not someone who'll perform well but not brilliantly. We needed a player to come in who could make the difference on his own if he had to. Valencia can't, and never will.
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Obviously he wouldn't have got into the '99 team. Considering there are only two other wingers in the last two decades who would (and another who would probably be on par in Figo), that's not exactly something that could be held against him. He'd be pushing Kanchelskis in '94, and he'd be ahead of Park in '08.

Valencia has been, along with Evra, our best player for the last three months. His form stuttered for a while a few weeks ago, but in his last couple of games he's back to his November form.

Unless your name is Messi or Ribery, there's no other winger in the world who can come close to the constant match-changing ability that Ronaldo bought. After that it's either inconsistent brilliance or consistent effectiveness. We went the latter route with Valencia.
 
Count Duckula said:
I genuinly wonder if I watch different games to some of you, because I find Valencia exceptionally frustrating to watch. Run at defender. Pause. Pass ball backwards. Sometimes lose possession with weak attempt at a pass. He's like Ji Sung Park with pace, but then again I know I'm in the minortiy with my dislike of Park, too.

He's not bad by any means, but I don't think he would get into any of United's "great sides". The '94 team, the '99 team and the '08 team would all be much worse off for having him, and that's how I judge a player. When you replace the best player you've had for nearly forty years you expect real quality to come in, not someone who'll perform well but not brilliantly. We needed a player to come in who could make the difference on his own if he had to. Valencia can't, and never will.
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How hard can it be to understand that he's not Ronaldo's replacement, I mean really? I'd suggest you should form an opinion of him without comparing him with a completely different player, you really come across a really spoilt fan.

Funny how you have written him off when he's still young and has performed very well for us so far (might even be above the expectations) and he's still improving.
 
Yeh, that was my point, guys - you all seem to think he's performed really well; I think he's had a very, very mixed season, and that includes a lot of real shockers. I'm not alone in my opinions, either, no matter how much his fans would love to paint me that way.

I never said he was a bad player, I just don't think he offers enough to be considered a Manchester United player.

And Brwned, why does it make me a WUM to compare new players to those of our great teams? Have our expectations dropped? Are we buying new players with the aims of making a merely "good" team now? I didn't say that if he couldn't get in he was a failure, but I do think we should be aiming for people of that calibre, given that our ambition should be to be the best and... well, those teams were indeed the best. Fact is, however, Valencia is nowhere near that level, and would seriously weaken any of those sides were he played in them.

He's so ludicrously one-dimensional and one-footed; he can look brilliant against sides that have no positional awareness whatsoever (like Wigan), where he can just stand in space and pick out passes, but in tight games he offers next to nothing. And his absolute refusal to use his left foot is really beginning to piss me off. There are amputees more two-footed than Antonio Valencia.

Also, MadDogg, he's as good as Kanchelskis? Seriously? I know some of you are desperate to believe he's been a roaring success (along with Berbatov, I suppose - I mean wow, those two have been unbelievably good), but that's just getting silly. It'd be like claiming Owen has been as good as Sheringham.
 
championo said:
I love Valencia so far, but I am the only one who thinks he slows us down with some indecisive moves when he gets the ball? He is so fecking quick without or chasing the ball, but with the ball at his feet, he often stops or hesitate and it bugs the hell out of me.
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This is true but it's not surprising. It will take him at least 6 moths, probably more, to start to predict the movement of his team-mates instinctively, without thinking about it.

If anything, he's way ahead of schedule when it comes to fully integrating with the team. It's amazing the way he's been so effective despite almost never playing two games in a row with the same full-back. That's the worst possible scenario for a winger to settle into a new team, never mind someone under as much pressure as Valencia is, at a club like United.

The way some one here are so keen to write him of, so early in his career, is a bit pathetic really. He should only really be judged at the end of this season. The fact he's already looking the business and is one of the most prolific goal-scoring wingers in the league* is a credit to the bloke really. Very impressive.






*Any stattos know any wingers who've scored more goals than him? Lennon? Maybe Milner? Perhaps one of Arsenal's pseudo-wingers like Arshavin?
 
Count Duckula said:
Yeh, that was my point, guys - you all seem to think he's performed really well; I think he's had a very, very mixed season, and that includes a lot of real shockers. I'm not alone in my opinions, either, no matter how much his fans would love to paint me that way.

I never said he was a bad player, I just don't think he offers enough to be considered a Manchester United player.

And Brwned, why does it make me a WUM to compare new players to those of our great teams? Have our expectations dropped? Are we buying new players with the aims of making a merely "good" team now? I didn't say that if he couldn't get in he was a failure, but I do think we should be aiming for people of that calibre, given that our ambition should be to be the best and... well, those teams were indeed the best. Fact is, however, Valencia is nowhere near that level, and would seriously weaken any of those sides were he played in them.
He's so ludicrously one-dimensional and one-footed; he can look brilliant against sides that have no positional awareness whatsoever (like Wigan), where he can just stand in space and pick out passes, but in tight games he offers next to nothing. And his absolute refusal to use his left foot is really beginning to piss me off. There are amputees more two-footed than Antonio Valencia.

Also, MadDogg, he's as good as Kanchelskis? Seriously? I know some of you are desperate to believe he's been a roaring success (along with Berbatov, I suppose - I mean wow, those two have been unbelievably good), but that's just getting silly. It'd be like claiming Owen has been as good as Sheringham.
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That's bollox, to be fair.
 
He played a few crosses with his left foot when he came on against Leeds, I chuckled to myself at the time. Probably the only time that day I did.
 
Evra
Fletcher
Berbatov

That's three players alone that are next-to-hopeless on their weaker foot. Is that brought up after every single game as a stick to beat them with? It's becoming boring now, in all honesty.
 
Not sure if that was to me Brophs my good man but I agree with you entirely, I think he's arguably been our best player so far this season. I mentioned the left foot crosses as people say he 'never ever uses it, ever, at all' etc.
 
He's done well, considering he's 6 months into his United career. Remember, it took Ronaldo 3 seasons before he really started to establish himself. Last month or 2 he's started getting a lot more consistency in his game, his start of the season form was mixed, and he was frustrating to watch at times. His game is clearly improving though, so I don't really know what more any of you expect. Too many idiots think a player has to be world class by the time he's 22/23. That rarely happens, very rarely.
 
Brophs said:
Evra
Fletcher
Berbatov

That's three players alone that are next-to-hopeless on their weaker foot. Is that brought up after every single game as a stick to beat them with? It's becoming boring now, in all honesty.
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Aye, you could probably add the following names to that list

Beckham
Giggs
Kanchelskis
Neville
Brown

When someone plays as a winger or full-back, it's no great problem for them to be one-footed. People are obviously expecting every new winger to be as two-footed and versatile as Ronaldo, which is silly.
 
Brophs said:
Evra
Fletcher
Berbatov

That's three players alone that are next-to-hopeless on their weaker foot. Is that brought up after every single game as a stick to beat them with? It's becoming boring now, in all honesty.
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Is this where I indulge in Caf tradition and respond with something along the lines of "you do love talking shit, don't you Brophs"? Not sure I've got the antagonistic reply down pat!

But I disagree entirely. Fletcher is stronger on his right foot but he doesn't make a habit of solely using his right to the detriment of his game. He does use his left, he's just not as good with it. That's fine, the same way Giggsy does use his right he's just much weaker on it. Valencia never uses his left. If he were presented with a tap-in on his left he'd still probably try and wrap his right foot around it somehow.

Evra is a left-back. That's not so much bother; his first job is to defend, and if he's playing in crosses or passes it'll generally be on the run from the left hand side where his one-footedness isn't such an issue. Valencia isn't like that - he needs to be able to create things, and being two-footed (or at least being able to fecking use your weaker foot) is a huge advantage in that situation. It makes you so much less predictable.

There's a clear difference between strongly favouring one foot (as those players both yourself and Pogue listed do), and actually been utterly incapable of using the weaker one.
 
Count Duckula said:
Yeh, that was my point, guys - you all seem to think he's performed really well; I think he's had a very, very mixed season, and that includes a lot of real shockers. I'm not alone in my opinions, either, no matter how much his fans would love to paint me that way.

I never said he was a bad player, I just don't think he offers enough to be considered a Manchester United player.

And Brwned, why does it make me a WUM to compare new players to those of our great teams? Have our expectations dropped? Are we buying new players with the aims of making a merely "good" team now? I didn't say that if he couldn't get in he was a failure, but I do think we should be aiming for people of that calibre, given that our ambition should be to be the best and... well, those teams were indeed the best. Fact is, however, Valencia is nowhere near that level, and would seriously weaken any of those sides were he played in them.

He's so ludicrously one-dimensional and one-footed; he can look brilliant against sides that have no positional awareness whatsoever (like Wigan), where he can just stand in space and pick out passes, but in tight games he offers next to nothing. And his absolute refusal to use his left foot is really beginning to piss me off. There are amputees more two-footed than Antonio Valencia.

Also, MadDogg, he's as good as Kanchelskis? Seriously? I know some of you are desperate to believe he's been a roaring success (along with Berbatov, I suppose - I mean wow, those two have been unbelievably good), but that's just getting silly. It'd be like claiming Owen has been as good as Sheringham.
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A winger who dares who dares to have bad game now and then. OH NOES, he's actually been remarkble consistant for a winger. No, you're not alone, there's plenty of more clueless people like you out there. He offers nothing? Except plenty of goals, assists and flair though that's obviously not good enough. The one dimensional thing i'm not even gonna bother discuss as it's rubbish.

This one-footness moaning is really getting quite hilarious. It's really no big deal but it's apparently big enough for some people to get upset but I guess they need something about him to point out and pick on.
 
Count Duckula said:
Is this where I indulge in Caf tradition and respond with something along the lines of "you do love talking shit, don't you Brophs"? Not sure I've got the antagonistic reply down pat!

But I disagree entirely. Fletcher is stronger on his right foot but he doesn't make a habit of solely using his right to the detriment of his game. He does use his left, he's just not as good with it. That's fine, the same way Giggsy does use his right he's just much weaker on it. Valencia never uses his left. If he were presented with a tap-in on his left he'd still probably try and wrap his right foot around it somehow.

Evra is a left-back. That's not so much bother; his first job is to defend, and if he's playing in crosses or passes it'll generally be on the run from the left hand side where his one-footedness isn't such an issue. Valencia isn't like that - he needs to be able to create things, and being two-footed (or at least being able to fecking use your weaker foot) is a huge advantage in that situation. It makes you so much less predictable.
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It's comments like this that generate antagonistic replies, to be fair.

He hit a cross with his left foot in the game against Leeds, for crying out loud.
 
Count Duckula said:
Is this where I indulge in Caf tradition and respond with something along the lines of "you do love talking shit, don't you Brophs"? Not sure I've got the antagonistic reply down pat!

But I disagree entirely. Fletcher is stronger on his right foot but he doesn't make a habit of solely using his right to the detriment of his game. He does use his left, he's just not as good with it. That's fine, the same way Giggsy does use his right he's just much weaker on it. Valencia never uses his left. If he were presented with a tap-in on his left he'd still probably try and wrap his right foot around it somehow.

Evra is a left-back. That's not so much bother; his first job is to defend, and if he's playing in crosses or passes it'll generally be on the run from the left hand side where his one-footedness isn't such an issue. Valencia isn't like that - he needs to be able to create things, and being two-footed (or at least being able to fecking use your weaker foot) is a huge advantage in that situation. It makes you so much less predictable.

There's a clear difference between strongly favouring one foot (as those players both yourself and Pogue listed do), and actually been utterly incapable of using the weaker one.
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You should probably go and watch some games where he's played Count, 'cos that's the biggest load of rubbish I've literally ever read. He made one or two crosses with his left foot against Leeds on Sunday FFS!

Edit - I see Pogue made that point too. At least now I know I wasn't seeing things.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
It's comments like this that generate antagonistic replies, to be fair.

He hit a cross with his left foot in the game against Leeds, for crying out loud.
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Ah, yes, as R Nick has already posted. That's the first time he's done it, hence R Nick mentioned he "chuckled" when he saw it. So, the first time he's ever hit a cross with his left foot is in the previous game, and yet that means he's two-footed?
 
Count Duckula said:
Ah, yes, as R Nick has already posted. That's the first time he's done it, hence R Nick mentioned he "chuckled" when he saw it. So, the first time he's ever hit a cross with his left foot is in the previous game, and yet that means he's two-footed?
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No I chuckled because I knew somebody would be on here afterwards calling him one footed and one dimensional. It's also not the first time he's used his left foot.
 
marchi-91 said:
Ronaldo on the left, Valencia on the right :drool: Spurs can get fecked with their supposed pacey wingers.
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Exactly and that's where CD's argument falls flat in my opinion.

Valencia would get into the 06/08 teams, why wouldn't he?
Ronaldo would be put to the left and Valencia dominate the right and what a fecking awesome team to watch that would be, excellent midfield and Tevez/Ronnie in our attacking armoury.

I don't think Valencia would weaken or not be able to get into those teams, he will be a top player and his versatilty will improve the longer he stays here.

Already v Leeds, we saw two-left footed crosses and thats a sign of things to come, both were of decent quality too.. so he does have the power on that foot, just needs to have the confidence and the intelligence to use it in situations where the outside of the foot is not needed.

He is deffo up there in my estimations for player of the year, long way to go yet but he is up there.
 
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