Antonio Valencia... | Will wear #25 shirt from this point onwards by request

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I love his physical dominance. THat's what Nani lacks. He is very hard to shake off the ball and that's what makes him so important.

His final ball lacked a few times yesterday but apart from that again a very good game from him.
 
Top said:
I don't understand why some people get so angry when Valencia's one-footedness is mentioned. He's obviously still a great footballer but as it's one of the only points about him that stands out as being a tad negative then obviously people are going to mention it. That's how it is with all our players.
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Exactly.

Nowt wrong with pointing out a players weakness.
 
His one-footedness isn't his only negative. Two things I think he can improve upon is

1) Look for a shot more - he has a decent strike on him and it would keep defenders honest if he is going to be a shooting threat, giving him even better options to beat a man if they press up to stop him from shooting.

2) Gamble a bit more into the box. Perhaps it is his defensive discipline that when we are attacking from the left side, that he is very rarely attacking the far post or even in the box. He's usually seems at least 5-10 yards behind and lot of times a cross comes through and just wonder - if Valencia had gambled, he might have had an opportunity. If he looks to get into these goal scoring positions, like yesterday when a cross came in, it wasn't his instinct to get in front of the fullback when he could have had a chance at a header on goal.

He is a beast but, there are things he can still do that would make him even more menacing.
 
Top said:
I don't understand why some people get so angry when Valencia's one-footedness is mentioned. He's obviously still a great footballer but as it's one of the only points about him that stands out as being a tad negative then obviously people are going to mention it. That's how it is with all our players.
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I don't think anyone is getting angry, more bemused if anything. It's been so much blown out of proportion it's just got silly.

There are loads and loads of footballer who favour one foot over the other, including a good few on our team. Berbatov massively favours his right, Giggs his left, ditto Anderson and I don't think I've ever seen Evra pass the ball with his right. If anything, it's the two footed players like Carrick, Nani and Hernandez that stick out.

Yes, Valencia uses his right foot whenever possible. People talk about him as though he can't use his left at all, though, which is just silly. He recently set up a goal with left foot and scored with the same foot in pre-season. It just seems strange that anyone feels the need to repeatedly point this out, when he's one of many players on our team that has an obvious preference for one foot over the other.
 
The thing is, it's not just passing. Berbatov, Giggs and Ando may not pass the ball very often with their weak foot (although relatively still quite a bit more than Valencia), but they'll often take a touch here and there when dribbling or to control a ball, or to do a bit of footwork to get around a player. Valencia doesn't. He'll only touch the ball with his left if it is basically impossible to get his right on it, to the extent he'll sometimes stop entire attacking moves or throw himself half off-balance just to get his right in position to take it. Invariably he keeps hold of the ball and starts another attacking move so it's not a big deal, but it's something that will be noted.
 
finneh said:
He had a great game, but sometimes you do have to wonder... Surely any fullback playing him should just send him onto his left, forcing him to pass? Do full backs every week just have no idea of the winger they are coming up against (it also happens vs Lennon/Bale/Walcott etc)?
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They do know that. That's what makes it so extraordinary that he can beat them again and again. I'll see defenders playing him to his left as much as they can without giving him a clear run into the box, and he'll still take it to his right and beat them.


Raees said:
Giggs is not as one footed, I've already post vids of great goals he has scored with his weaker foot.. one against Juve in the CL and another against the Hammers, so good it was used to advertise the up and coming Sky HD. He was unlucky not to score yesterday with the right footed effort, just shanked it.. but clearly he's capable of putting them sort of chances away.
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Perhaps Giggs isn't quite AS one footed, but regardless of Giggs' abilities with his right, he often chooses to go with his left to the detriment of the play. I think it's a matter of confidence. Giggs probably often feels more confident sending in a pass with the outside of his left foot than with his right foot. I'd wager it's largely confidence with Valencia, as well. The one play where he seemingly had a good shot from his left foot, but he hesitated, and lost the chance. That's a confidence issue first and foremost. Perhaps for a reason, but sometimes in that position you have to put it on the goal and see what happens. (Note, this is not to disparage Antonio in any way, I love the lad).

You'd think they have special drills for him. Juggling with his left foot, practicing cross after cross after cross and shot after shot after shot. But then again, I'd think he's been doing that for years and years to work on his left foot. With athletes that need both hands (basketball, for instance), they will often do everything around the house with their off hand. Eat with it, wipe their ass with it, wank with it, etc. All to build that coordination. Can't really do too much around the house with one foot, though.
 
Aaron said:
Apart from Nani who doesn't have any and anyone who thinks he does is a fecking idiot, right? :rolleyes:
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Give it a fecking rest Aaron, you made your points and for the most part made them well now it's beginning to look like attention seeking
 
MadDogg said:
The thing is, it's not just passing. Berbatov, Giggs and Ando may not pass the ball very often with their weak foot (although relatively still quite a bit more than Valencia), but they'll often take a touch here and there when dribbling or to control a ball, or to do a bit of footwork to get around a player. Valencia doesn't. He'll only touch the ball with his left if it is basically impossible to get his right on it, to the extent he'll sometimes stop entire attacking moves or throw himself half off-balance just to get his right in position to take it. Invariably he keeps hold of the ball and starts another attacking move so it's not a big deal, but it's something that will be noted.
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Agreed
 
If he isn't as confident on his week foot it might not be a bad thing, if we're looking to width. Players with both feet may be too tempted, because they can, to cut inside and the second they do that, you really lose a lot of the width that a move started off with. I always felt Giggs, when younger, was more effective when he didn't put the breaks in and come inside.
 
Aaron said:
If he isn't as confident on his week foot it might not be a bad thing, if we're looking to width. Players with both feet may be too tempted, because they can, to cut inside and the second they do that, you really lose a lot of the width that a move started off with. I always felt Giggs, when younger, was more effective when he didn't put the breaks in and come inside.
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That's a fair point.Defenders may be able to set up better when the pitch narrows
 
Inigo Montoya said:
That's a fair point.Defenders may be able to set up better when the pitch narrows
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Also think that when a player does cut inside, sometimes it almost confuses everyone around him. Players who have made runs centrally suddenly have to reposition themselves in a short amount of time in what is they inevitably a very crowded penalty area.

Cutting inside, for me, is really only effective when on the counter and/or a man or two over. Not always but generally I like the wingers to stay wide when they're delivering the ball. Even if the don't have the ball being wide then becomes an option to open up play of you're playing centrally and the defenders have taken to running towards the ball.

That's negated a fair bit these days with attacking full-backs, mind you.
 
Aaron said:
Also think that when a player does cut inside, sometimes it almost confuses everyone around him. Players who have made runs centrally suddenly have to reposition themselves in a short amount of time in what is they inevitably a very crowded penalty area.

Cutting inside, for me, is really only effective when on the counter and/or a man or two over. Not always but generally I like the wingers to stay wide when they're delivering the ball. Even if the don't have the ball being wide then becomes an option to open up play of you're playing centrally and the defenders have taken to running towards the ball.

That's negated a fair bit these days with attacking full-backs, mind you.
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Barcelona do that pretty well but they have been working at that style for around 30 years to perfect it
 
Inigo Montoya said:
Barcelona do that pretty well but they have been working at that style for around 30 years to perfect it
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I could be way off but I don't think Barcelona have been that spectacular for 30 years. I think the last four or five where they have been fantastic has clouded opinions a lot. They've gone through many years with very ordinary sides, at least by the standards of the other top clubs in Europe. I think the way Barcelona play 2006 onwards (roughly) is more down to a change in approach than anything of a continuation.
 
Aaron said:
I could be way off but I don't think Barcelona have been that spectacular for 30 years. I think the last four or five where they have been fantastic has clouded opinions a lot. They've gone through many years with very ordinary sides, at least by the standards of the other top clubs in Europe. I think the way Barcelona play 2006 onwards (roughly) is more down to a change in approach than anything of a continuation.
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Your not way off but to cut a long post short I'd recommend the excellent book "Barca" by Jimmy Burns, it expands on many of the points you make
 
MiamiSpartan said:
Perhaps Giggs isn't quite AS one footed, but regardless of Giggs' abilities with his right, he often chooses to go with his left to the detriment of the play. I think it's a matter of confidence. Giggs probably often feels more confident sending in a pass with the outside of his left foot than with his right foot. I'd wager it's largely confidence with Valencia, as well. The one play where he seemingly had a good shot from his left foot, but he hesitated, and lost the chance. That's a confidence issue first and foremost. Perhaps for a reason, but sometimes in that position you have to put it on the goal and see what happens. (Note, this is not to disparage Antonio in any way, I love the lad).

You'd think they have special drills for him. Juggling with his left foot, practicing cross after cross after cross and shot after shot after shot. But then again, I'd think he's been doing that for years and years to work on his left foot. With athletes that need both hands (basketball, for instance), they will often do everything around the house with their off hand. Eat with it, wipe their ass with it, wank with it, etc. All to build that coordination. Can't really do too much around the house with one foot, though.
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Nothing wrong with favouring one foot to dribble with or even choosing to outside of the foot over a seemingly simpler weaker foot pass. In fact many top players find that they can keep their head up and watch the play better when the ball is on their stronger foot and execute the pass without looking (outside of the foot) rather than having to manipulate the ball onto the weaker foot and execute the pass whilst having to look down at their feet a tad. Its one of the reasons why the likes of Scholes and Valencia keep possession so well, they keep their head up and just lay off passes with their preferred foot without even looking down most of the time.

That said, just in and around the box.. if he could just use his weaker foot when there is zero options elsewhere, it would make him a more dangerous player and a superior goal threat.
 
Are you seriously suggesting a winger that come in and shoot is a negative, Aaron? That's a new one.

Can't remember which game it was after Valencia came back but, SAF had Valencia and Nani switch wings, it gave us a bit more of a threat. Not to mention that any winger that is a threat coming in needs both the attention of his marker, leaving even more chance for taking the defender on the outside or if a covering players is brought over, then gives a bit more space to attackers.

Valencia himself has been changing his game to be able to cut infield more and you rate him as the best but, then seem to suggest it's a poor trait because it's one of Nani's strengths in that he is able to come in and shoot on either foot.

Ribery/Robben at Bayern play on the "wrong" wings for exactly this reason because it does give them that option - this seems like reach by you to find negatives in Nani's game.
 
Shimo said:
Are you seriously suggesting a winger that come in and shoot is a negative, Aaron? That's a new one.

Can't remember which game it was after Valencia came back but, SAF had Valencia and Nani switch wings, it gave us a bit more of a threat. Not to mention that any winger that is a threat coming in needs both the attention of his marker, leaving even more chance for taking the defender on the outside or if a covering players is brought over, then gives a bit more space to attackers.

Valencia himself has been changing his game to be able to cut infield more and you rate him as the best but, then seem to suggest it's a poor trait because it's one of Nani's strengths in that he is able to come in and shoot on either foot.

Ribery/Robben at Bayern play on the "wrong" wings for exactly this reason because it does give them that option - this seems like reach by you to find negatives in Nani's game.
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I didn't say it was a negative. I said sometimes it works. But usually it doesn't and when it doesn't it often means that the chance has gone as the other players who were in the middle have to reposition.

I'll clarify, I don't mean when a player gets to or near the touchline and cuts inside, but when a winger makes himself central, on the edge of the area from a wide position, more often than not, in my view, it isn't as effective as a delivery from the wide positions would have been. Not always but I have my preference.
 
Valencia / Nani on the right - agree that Valencia does provide a lot more width consistently, he literally stands on the side line when we have the ball. However, as you pointed out already in todays world with fullbacks, especially like the twins in play, a winger that comes in opens up space for them.

Even Valencia is adding the variety to come inside because if all he does is try to get on the outside, he'll end up getting stopped more often than not. Can't remember which game it was but, one of the first one Valencia came back in, where he had come inside and played a ball through to Giggs for one of our scores.

Playing out wide does stretch play which is big for us and I argued in one of the threads where people said Nani is a much better crosser of the ball that Valencia is equally as good as he may not be as accurate with picking out players, he puts in a lot of dangerous balls but, in some of the more recent games his crossing has been a bit wank, had the beating of his man but, couldn't get a good cross in or kept getting them blocked off.
 
Shimo said:
Valencia / Nani on the right - agree that Valencia does provide a lot more width consistently, he literally stands on the side line when we have the ball. However, as you pointed out already in todays world with fullbacks, especially like the twins in play, a winger that comes in opens up space for them.

Even Valencia is adding the variety to come inside because if all he does is try to get on the outside, he'll end up getting stopped more often than not. Can't remember which game it was but, one of the first one Valencia came back in, where he had come inside and played a ball through to Giggs for one of our scores.

Playing out wide does stretch play which is big for us and I argued in one of the threads where people said Nani is a much better crosser of the ball that Valencia is equally as good as he may not be as accurate with picking out players, he puts in a lot of dangerous balls but, in some of the more recent games his crossing has been a bit wank, had the beating of his man but, couldn't get a good cross in or kept getting them blocked off.
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But the issue I foresee with Nani being on the right with 'modern day full backs' (I really hate this expression but don't have a better one to hand) is that I don't think the boss would 'trust' a combination of Nani/a twin. Therefore the only overlap Nani is likely to get is from O'Shea, which isn't terribly effective.
 
Think next season if both are fit you'll see a lot of "trust" in Nani by the boss as both will be playing on the wings supported by more attack minded fullbacks.

O'Shea's inclusion as a fullback has had little to do with IMO with Nani's form (or exclusion because Valencia is playing and a twin can be played instead) but, more to do with experience, injury circumstance and sometimes tactics to deal with opposing superiority in height. I think too many people reach for well the manager doesn't trust a player if he is left out argument for a player they are making an argument against, seen it used so much against Berbatov. It's got more to do with form, tactics and planning to use the squad for the games as they are coming up.
 
I was disappointed with his final ball today.
He never really seemed to get into the game properly, as Arsenal scored just as he came on, but he should have done better on quite a few occasions where he had time and space but ended up taking too long before fluffing the cross.
 
He's played well since his return no doubt, but is it just me or is he more reluctant to take on his fullback since his return?
 
His crossing has been below par in a lot of games recently and not just today. Even vs Schalke (where he was very good) he got into some very good positions and then put in a poor ball.
 
He should smash the ball in low instead of snowballing it high.
 
I love him as a player, a belting signing by Fergie. Classic winger, can beat his man with pace or a trick, and most of the time there's a quality ball in to the area at the end of it. He's also stronger and more disciplined than your traditional winger. Top player, and we look a far better side with him in the team for my money

That said, the curse of the traditional winger, they'll be one game on it, one game frustrating as feck. He made an impact today, but just couldn't find that quality ball in
 
i (shock horror) fully agree with Brad. I think the team has a far better balance to it when he plays. The lad is a top signing. Well done Fergie.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
He s he only out and outwide man we have. The rest love to come inside.
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That's what I think his greatest asset is. Not that not being able to come inside is necessarily a positive, but it does, at least, provide a consistency. I've never been a fan of wide players who come inside, especially when they do so from deep. If you wish to cut inside for God sake do it early. Getting near to the goal line and then deciding to waltz inside the box or to try and get central from there is often infuriating. Valencia doesn't do that.
 
Was quite poor in his delivery today IMO. Got into some great positions when the game got stretched but didn't do enough thereon.
 
Poor today but in fairness he has played a lot since his return so we can't expect him to be good all the time. Slightly annoying that he kept getting the ball taken off him by Arshavin of all people.
 
Not his best performance but did at least get to the by-line and get (admittedly poor) crosses into the box a few times. Something I don't think we managed once in the entire game before he came on. If we're going to play 442 it's absolutely crucial our wingers stretch play and look to get in behind the full-back.

One cross was decent enough, when he smashed it low and hard across the 6 yard box. The rest were all a bit meh and he hit one Bebe-style horror into row Z.
 
Elated for the lad. With the injury that he had at the start of the season, to turning it all around and playing, scoring in a Champions League semi-final.

The man is a beast. Looks even better than before !
 
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