Argentina NT

kouroux said:
What :lol: ? "Everyone is accountable" is including Messi
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No :annoyed: this is getting tedious. Maybe it's because english isn't the first language for either of us? Anyways, i was specifically referring to your previous post, not your overall argument.

I said there's an argument to be made that Messi is part of the reason why so many of his teammates have been underperforming, and motivated it. You said Messi wasn't to blame for it(*it* being the argument in question). I said i'm not blaming Messi for it, as my point wasn't about blame, it was descriptive: Messi has been repeatedly put in a position where he was asked to do too much, to the detriment of his teammates and the team as a whole. Thus he's effectively contributed to Argentina's problems. Whether that was his fault or not doesn't matter, i'm not interested in that argument(and there's no real argument to make here really. Messi has failed along with everyone else. He is neither the reason Argentina haven't won anything, nor is he a lone tragic hero who has been repeatedly let down by his teams. He shares the blame for those failures along with everyone else)
 
giorno said:
No :annoyed: this is getting tedious. Maybe it's because english isn't the first language for either of us? Anyways, i was specifically referring to your previous post, not your overall argument.

I said there's an argument to be made that Messi is part of the reason why so many of his teammates have been underperforming, and motivated it. You said Messi wasn't to blame for it(*it* being the argument in question). I said i'm not blaming Messi for it, as my point wasn't about blame, it was descriptive: Messi has been repeatedly put in a position where he was asked to do too much, to the detriment of his teammates and the team as a whole. Thus he's effectively contributed to Argentina's problems. Whether that was his fault or not doesn't matter, i'm not interested in that argument(and there's no real argument to make here really. Messi has failed along with everyone else. He is neither the reason Argentina haven't won anything, nor is he a lone tragic hero who has been repeatedly let down by his teams. He shares the blame for those failures along with everyone else)
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Now you explained it much better than before tbh.
 
RedRonaldo said:
Sure, football is a team game. But at his best, he has all the GOAT material to win it on his own too. Just like what Ronaldo has did it last night coming on from sub and winning the match for Portugal, sure Messi can do it too, if not better.
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Against Andorra? A lot of their players are part time footballers and part time postmen or shop clerks.

It's not easy for Argentina to win in Ecuador, much harder than to the likes of Andorra or San Marino. Argentina haven't won there in 50something years.

Argentina need a good collective performance for a change. Even if they make it to WC they have no chance if they don't fix their team.
 
I would be so happy if Valencia knocks Messi out of the World Cup! It would be worth it just for the meltdown. Messi might retire again, who knows.
 
serghei said:
Against Andorra? A lot of their players are part time footballers and part time postmen or shop clerks.

It's not easy for Argentina to win in Ecuador, much harder than to the likes of Andorra or San Marino. Argentina haven't won there in 50something years.

Argentina need a good collective performance for a change. Even if they make it to WC they have no chance if they don't fix their team.
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Perhaps Ronaldo vs Sweden couple years ago is a better example, but yeh it's never easy, they really need to step up in order to get a result there.
 
The Argentina of old would have already won a couple of WCs with Messi, they have far too many bottlers and yet 3 Cup finals in a row. All Messi
 
A lose doesn’t really eliminate them. They will need some things from the other key fixture to go there way.
 
Ecuador have lost their last 6 games and they won't have their best player. And even if Argentina feck it up and don't win they still have an ok chance at qualifying depending on other results. The altitude will make it hard for them but they're still big favourites to make it to the World Cup.
 
Peyroteo said:
Ecuador have lost their last 6 games and they won't have their best player. And even if Argentina feck it up and don't win they still have an ok chance at qualifying depending on other results. The altitude will make it hard for them but they're still big favourites to make it to the World Cup.
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Not really. A draw would see them finish behind uruguay and one of peru/colombia for sure. Add in paraguay who are likely to win, and they'd be left praying chile loses by two goals or peru-colombia doesn't end in a draw
 
serghei said:
Too many people think football works like Fifa 18. Messi - 93, Aguero - 88, Dybala - 87. Sure wins, right. It's a little more complicated than that, sadly for Argentina.
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And it becomes even more complicated when your coach does not play your best players.
 
If Ecuador could still qualify, they would be favourites to win this game or at least get a draw. Because they are already out without any hope, they might take this game lightly and that opens up a chance to win for Argentina but it won't be easy.
 
giorno said:
Not really. A draw would see them finish behind uruguay and one of peru/colombia for sure. Add in paraguay who are likely to win, and they'd be left praying chile loses by two goals or peru-colombia doesn't end in a draw
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Chile can easily lose by two goals in Brazil and Colombia can win. Paraguay's home form isn't great either.

It's unlikely but there's still a pretty good chance Argentina go through even if they draw.
 
Pretty crazy the table at the moment. It's Brazil and everyone else. Argentina can go from 6th to ... what is it?... 2nd?

Sarni said:
If Ecuador could still qualify, they would be favourites to win this game or at least get a draw. Because they are already out without any hope, they might take this game lightly and that opens up a chance to win for Argentina but it won't be easy.
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They have a lot of pride though.
 
Peyroteo said:
Ecuador have lost their last 6 games and they won't have their best player. And even if Argentina feck it up and don't win they still have an ok chance at qualifying depending on other results. The altitude will make it hard for them but they're still big favourites to make it to the World Cup.
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The problem for Argentina is that they are blocked by fear atm. They are not relaxed.
 
abhayselvan said:
I would be so happy if Valencia knocks Messi out of the World Cup! It would be worth it just for the meltdown. Messi might retire again, who knows.
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Why would you want that? I can understand the club football logic but intenational football? Come on - its the biggest sporting event in the world and I want all the best players to be there.

Its a shame Bale and Zlatan can't make it !
 
bond19821982 said:
Why would you want that? I can understand the club football logic but intenational football? Come on - its the biggest sporting event in the world and I want all the best players to be there.

Its a shame Bale and Zlatan can't make it !
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The biggest sporting event should have the best teams (not necessarily the best players of the world). If the best players in the world, play in not good enough NT, they don't need to be there. Having teams not at their best in the WC would only mean we get to see the best players crying at the failure in the WC.
 
bond19821982 said:
Why would you want that? I can understand the club football logic but intenational football? Come on - its the biggest sporting event in the world and I want all the best players to be there.

Its a shame Bale and Zlatan can't make it !
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Haha it's not like I have anything against Messi. I just thought it would be nice if after all the hype around Messi, a team captained by one of our own players knocks him out.
 
Alright, can Argentina be eliminated and not even get the 5th place in the region?
 
Argentina will win the WC.

Think about those teams like Sweden 92 or France 06 some months before the final stage.
 
giorno said:
No :annoyed: this is getting tedious. Maybe it's because english isn't the first language for either of us? Anyways, i was specifically referring to your previous post, not your overall argument.

I said there's an argument to be made that Messi is part of the reason why so many of his teammates have been underperforming, and motivated it. You said Messi wasn't to blame for it(*it* being the argument in question). I said i'm not blaming Messi for it, as my point wasn't about blame, it was descriptive: Messi has been repeatedly put in a position where he was asked to do too much, to the detriment of his teammates and the team as a whole. Thus he's effectively contributed to Argentina's problems. Whether that was his fault or not doesn't matter, i'm not interested in that argument(and there's no real argument to make here really. Messi has failed along with everyone else. He is neither the reason Argentina haven't won anything, nor is he a lone tragic hero who has been repeatedly let down by his teams. He shares the blame for those failures along with everyone else)
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From what I can gather people on Argentina don't question Messi's ability but some of the people that do criticize him is for his influence when it comes to players and managers in the Argentina team. Like chosing players who were friends with him like leaving out Icardi from a lot of time or having someone like Martino ahead of them because of his relation with him, so they do see him as someone who is part of this group of players who have been underperforming recently.
 
Sampaoli still not playing Dybala or Icardi for their most important game ever.
He is fecked up in the head.
 
If they draw they are most likely out I'm assuming. I think Ecuador may just roll over for them though. A World Cup without Argentina would seem a bit strange even if they have next to no chance of winning it.
 
Inter Yer Nan said:
If they draw they are most likely out I'm assuming. I think Ecuador may just roll over for them though. A World Cup without Argentina would seem a bit strange even if they have next to no chance of winning it.
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Wouldn’t surprise me if behind the scene stuff is going on. It’s happen before.
 
giorno said:
Romero-mercado-otamendi-fazio-salvio-acuna-biglia-masche-messi-papu-benedetto
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Best of luck with that line up.

*checks score after the game to see Argentina win 6-0.*

What's all these rumours of a fix about?
 
Perú national health office has issued instructions on what-to-do for all the people who are at risk of heart problems during the game.

...which is probably 99% of the country's population
 
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