Barcelona 2017/18

Snow said:
Such a bad excuse to put the blame on the manager. Barcelona have a vastly better first 11 and that first 11 walked on the pitch tonight thinking they didn't have to show up. They severly undersestimated Roma. They ran under 102km which is pathetic for a team in the CL (Liverpool ran 116km) and their passing percentage was 76% when they usually don't go under 90%.

4th time in 5 years that Barca are knocked out of the quarter finals but sure, keep blaming the manager.
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Overrating Barca a bit. Messi is GOAT but the other 10 can be matched to an extent by Roma's team (Iniesta in decline, so included).

Roma showed they were the better team over 2 legs. The 4-1 was a complete aberration of a result that was harsh on Roma. In such a case against strong opponents, the manager should have found a way to tactically overcome them.
 
Kapardin said:
Overrating Barca a bit. Messi is GOAT but the other 10 can be matched to an extent by Roma's team (Iniesta in decline, so included).

Roma showed they were the better team over 2 legs. The 4-1 was a complete aberration of a result that was harsh on Roma. In such a case against strong opponents, the manager should have found a way to tactically overcome them.
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Not at all. Umtiti is one of the best CB's in the world. Fazio is a starter for Roma. Alba is a very good left back, Rakitic and Busquets are excellent midfielders. Suárez has been poor in the CL this season but he's one of the world's best strikers. Iniesta is still class and shows more frequent good performances by far than De Rossi who probably had his best game since turning 30.

Patrick Shick started for Roma. They have Kolarov who was finished last season. It's a good spine of Becker, Manolas, Naingolan, Strootman and Dzeko but none of those players would start for Barcelona.

Roma was the better team over the two legs but they're also 21 points behind a team that Barcelona handily beat earlier in the tournament. It was a supremely poor performance from them, worse than the 1st leg loss against PSG and comparable to the losses to Juventus last season and the thrashing Bayern gave them.

They are too reliant on Messi and when he has a bad game, bad things will happen to them.

If any other team in the CL knockouts would have lost this way to Roma it would have been an upset. For Barcelona it simply should not happen. It's one of the biggest upsets in memory because the difference is not only in team quality on paper but also form.

An exceptional win from Roma who have been phenomenal at home this year whilst not being particulalry good away from home. Out of the 4 teams left I think they'd prefer Bayern who have not been as good away from home as the other two. Yes they have 9 wins in 10 but they were far from convincing against Celtic, Anderlecht and Sevilla but managed a 2-1 in all of them.
 
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Snow said:
Not at all. Umtiti is one of the best CB's in the world. Fazio is a starter for Roma. Alba is a very good left back, Rakitic and Busquets are excellent midfielders. Suárez has been poor in the CL this season but he's one of the world's best strikers. Iniesta is still class and shows more frequent good performances by far than De Rossi who probably had his best game since turning 30.

Patrick Shick started for Roma. They have Kolarov who was finished last season. It's a good spine of Becker, Manolas, Naingolan, Strootman and Dzeko but none of those players would start for Barcelona.

.....

Roma was the better team over the two legs but they're also 21 points behind a team that Barcelona handily beat earlier in the tournament.
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That spine is what I was alluding to. I never said Roma is better than Barca man for man, but that they can match Barca to an extent. With that spine, they are capable of beating top teams like Barca in cup games and are themselves a very good team in the competition.

They are 21 points behind Juve because they are not consistent enough in the league. That is down to various factors. Certainly they could beat Juve in a one off game or cup tie.
 
Kapardin said:
That spine is what I was alluding to. I never said Roma is better than Barca man for man, but that they can match Barca to an extent. With that spine, they are capable of beating top teams like Barca in cup games and are themselves a very good team in the competition.

They are 21 points behind Juve because they are not consistent enough in the league. That is down to various factors. Certainly they could beat Juve in a one off game or cup tie.
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Anyone can beat anyone in the cup. However when you've got a 4-1 head start whilst being the massive favorites beforehand (who bet on Roma before the tie or tonight) you shouldn't lost. This was the 17th time in the history of the CL (including preliminary round) that a teams come back from a 3 goal deficit. If you look over those ties you won't see giant killers unless you count Deportive beating Milan. This is a bigger result for me than Barca-PSG given how outplayed Barcelona were. I thought they were extremely lucky to PSG because not only did PSG fluff enough chances but also had clear cut penalties not given whilst Barca pretty much scored from all their half-decent chances. Roma conceded one good chance in the first minutes but after that they took control.
 
Just watched the game. Roma pressed high, put a high line and Barcelona weren't able to exploit the space in behind. Suarez gets caught offside way too often and there was noone making runs to exploit the space left behind. All season I haven't seen any spanish team create the same sort of problems Roma did, very good job by Eusebio Di Francesco. They’re a very physical team too, won a lot of 50-50 balls

Besides the tactics, this Barcelona team needs leaders too. They miss Puyol and Xavi a lot in that department and even with all that went wrong tactically what happened today can never happen. Their reactions after each Roma goal were pathetic, Pique seemed like the only one that cared and last season it was the same in away CL matches. 4-0 against PSG and 3-0 against Juve... even the draw against Chelsea this season came after a big mistake when they weren’t looking threatening.
 
Snow said:
Such a bad excuse to put the blame on the manager. Barcelona have a vastly better first 11 and that first 11 walked on the pitch tonight thinking they didn't have to show up. They severly undersestimated Roma. They ran under 102km which is pathetic for a team in the CL (Liverpool ran 116km) and their passing percentage was 76% when they usually don't go under 90%.

4th time in 5 years that Barca are knocked out of the quarter finals but sure, keep blaming the manager.
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If you had the much better 11 and still lost that is usually a sign of poor management.
 
I haven’t watched too many Barce games but they’ve run away with the league (actually undefeated) and was on the verge of a CL semi final but for a crazy turnaround game that happens very rarely, why are so many people suddenly suggesting the manager goes?
 
Snow said:
Such a bad excuse to put the blame on the manager. Barcelona have a vastly better first 11 and that first 11 walked on the pitch tonight thinking they didn't have to show up. They severly undersestimated Roma. They ran under 102km which is pathetic for a team in the CL (Liverpool ran 116km) and their passing percentage was 76% when they usually don't go under 90%.

4th time in 5 years that Barca are knocked out of the quarter finals but sure, keep blaming the manager.
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This game tactic is down to Valverde. Barcelona couldn't control the game meaning their whole team would mostly far away from Roma goal most of the time. Messi is quick is burst but for a long run, he is not the best. And only Luis Suarez there to support Messi. Sergi Roberto ain't winger. Doesn't know when to make run to help stretch play. Koralov alone dominates the flank. The other 3 midfielders are not dynamic type to help covering ground and helping the isolated forwards. To keep Dembele on the bench for so long is weird. He flunked the chance in the end, but upyou can see a player in his profile help to bring something different and benefit the team.

I am not sure about Paulinho form, but again, he is a player fit this game profile than bringing on fecking Gomez, who I am not sure what he is good at.

Overall Valverde does well for the season. However, for key games, he seems to be underwhelming to the level Barcelona is often aspired to. You may say Barcelona needs to change to adapt to the reality of their profiles of player have change. the coach want to adapt but not given full support.
 
Snow said:
Such a bad excuse to put the blame on the manager. Barcelona have a vastly better first 11 and that first 11 walked on the pitch tonight thinking they didn't have to show up. They severly undersestimated Roma. They ran under 102km which is pathetic for a team in the CL (Liverpool ran 116km) and their passing percentage was 76% when they usually don't go under 90%.

4th time in 5 years that Barca are knocked out of the quarter finals but sure, keep blaming the manager.
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The reason their passing percentage was so low is because of Valverde's awful system.

He's an awful big club manager. All season, they've relied on Messi's brilliance and Ter Stegen bailing out their defense.

They don't keep the ball well when pressed. They don't press themselves. They play extremely slow. Their structure in possession is a flat 442 with Messi and Suarez on top of each other.

It was only a matter of time before Valverde's Barcelona got exposed.
 
Castia said:
I haven’t watched too many Barce games but they’ve run away with the league (actually undefeated) and was on the verge of a CL semi final but for a crazy turnaround game that happens very rarely, why are so many people suddenly suggesting the manager goes?
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Because they play like an Italian team defending in a low block system.

And then in possession, they have such a poor structure. Messi/Suarez on top of each and Busquets in a midfield 2. It's stupidity.

All of their DNA has been abandoned this season.

People talk about De Gea bailing our defense, but Ter Stegen has been similar for Barcelona this season. He's probably been their 2nd best player.

The fact they managed to go unbeaten in La Liga so far just shows the brilliance of Messi.
 
RooneyLegend said:
I still don't understand why they'd think a 2 man attack would get it done in the CL. Sure, they are both great footballers but honestly, Messi receives the ball in the 'hole' and only has one player to aim for, or he tries to get a shot. What happens when that central area is shut off? disaster. I've said it before in this thread, i've not understood why they have such a great defensive record this season. Someone tried to explain and yet i still couldn't see it. They just didn't feel like that sort of side and they got exposed for the frauds they are in that sense. Btw great effort by Roma, haven't seen a team successfully reduce space like that without being vulnerable at the back.
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Ter Stegen is the only reason why.
 
Keeps It tidy said:
It seemed like they were horrible this match but, overall Pique and Umtiti have mostly been good this season.
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Good, but not great.

There's a lot of games that Ter Stegen has been asked to make numerous saves.

Though it's just not purely the defense's fault.

They simply allow the other team way more chances. It's odd watching them tbh. They don't resemble Barcelona at all.
 
And to think i have given Valverde credits for having turned the season around after the Spanish Super Cup. It's clear it has all been down to Messi and Suarez.
 
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Don't think Valverde will last long, even at half time Iniesta wasn't convinced at all at how they were playing. On the other hand the team had no spirit or response whatsoever, everytime Roma scored they looked so lost and helpless like if they already had given up.
 
Said it before, now they are just like any other team plus Messi. They don't play aggressive press, also they lack the ability to retain possession when pressed which was their style of play before. Now when teams press they panic just like any other team.

They need to invest again, Suarez barely offers anything apart from few easy goals. Looks like Iniesta is done too.
 
A-boateng said:
Are you a Madrid fan?
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I hate UEFAlona ever since the attempted robbery of Inter and following year robbery of Chelsea, and they've had more since then (Real Madrid on multiple occasions, PSG 6-1, first leg with Roma this season, and many many more). On top of that, they are a collection of some of the most despicable divers and cheaters in the game, like Suarez, Busquets, and the master of handball - Pique.
 
Fair play to Roma. However can see them being the team everyone else wants to get considering they never do anything away from home in the Champions League and not sure they will repeat last nights performance again.

As for Barcelona what a shocking result.
 
Z1L3 said:
I hate UEFAlona ever since the attempted robbery of Inter and following year robbery of Chelsea, and they've had more since then (Real Madrid on multiple occasions, PSG 6-1, first leg with Roma this season, and many many more). On top of that, they are a collection of some of the most despicable divers and cheaters in the game, like Suarez, Busquets, and the master of handball - Pique.
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You do realise that the most decisive goal of that tie (to make it 3-1 by Millito) was clearly offside :lol:
 
So sad I watched Liverpool - City instead of Roma - Barca. I just thought, meh Barca will containt them easily and win 0-1 or 1-2. Looked like a cracking match and watching Barcelona lose is always nice. Now let's hope Real go out tonight.

Also, this is obviously knee jerk, but what about Gerard Pique makes him world class apart from his hair and his Twitter feed?
 
Skills said:
You do realise that the most decisive goal of that tie (to make it 3-1 by Millito) was clearly offside :lol:
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They were also denied goal scoring opportunity when Milito was given offside when he was clear onside and was one on one with GK.
 
KirkDuyt said:
So sad I watched Liverpool - City instead of Roma - Barca. I just thought, meh Barca will containt them easily and win 0-1 or 1-2. Looked like a cracking match and watching Barcelona lose is always nice. Now let's hope Real go out tonight.

Also, this is obviously knee jerk, but what about Gerard Pique makes him world class apart from his hair and his Twitter feed?
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You are right it is knee jerk.
 
KirkDuyt said:
So sad I watched Liverpool - City instead of Roma - Barca. I just thought, meh Barca will containt them easily and win 0-1 or 1-2. Looked like a cracking match and watching Barcelona lose is always nice. Now let's hope Real go out tonight.

Also, this is obviously knee jerk, but what about Gerard Pique makes him world class apart from his hair and his Twitter feed?
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His wife
 
All my Barcelona supporting friends are absolutely fuming Valverde didn’t rotate enough in the league. They have a huge advantage and yet didn’t manage to test key players, which probably showed yesterday. Ridiculous result and something I didn’t expect at all.
 
Keeps It tidy said:
You are right it is knee jerk.
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I'm sure it is, but since Barcelona fell of their pedestal of being in a league above everyone else, I've seen Pique get caught out in a bad way quite often. I'm obviously not saying he's shite, but being a defender for a team with 90% possession is quite different to being a defender on a team getting hammered like last night.

I'm just genuinely curious what makes Pique one of the best defenders in the world, because in my opinion, he isn't.
 
KirkDuyt said:
I'm sure it is, but since Barcelona fell of their pedestal of being in a league above everyone else, I've seen Pique get caught out in a bad way quite often. I'm obviously not saying he's shite, but being a defender for a team with 90% possession is quite different to being a defender on a team getting hammered like last night.

I'm just genuinely curious what makes Pique one of the best defenders in the world, because in my opinion, he isn't.
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He is the best ball playing CB of his era. And for a side that like you said dominates possession most matches that is way more important.
 
Barsa fans calling for Valverde's head are crazy. He's winning the league with a 15 point advantage over Real Madrid and could win the Cup too. You do not fire a manager who can give you a domestic double.

Barsa's midfield has too many average/declining players. He needs at least 2 top tier ones to get the team back to CL standards. And a fullback or two as well.
 
Keeps It tidy said:
He is the best ball playing CB of his era. And for a side that like you said dominates possession most matches that is way more important.
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More important, but also more easy if you ask me. For example, I think Daily Blind would've been immense for a peak Barcelona side with his ball playing ability, but in the prem, where he's actually pressured by the opponent instead of them sitting deep al game, he's lacking. Ofcourse Pique is much better than Daily Blind, but it's just to illustrate my point.

Anywho, guess you just rate him more than I do. Or maybe I'm just jealous I'm not married to Shakira.
 
KirkDuyt said:
More important, but also more easy if you ask me. For example, I think Daily Blind would've been immense for a peak Barcelona side with his ball playing ability, but in the prem, where he's actually pressured by the opponent instead of them sitting deep al game, he's lacking. Ofcourse Pique is much better than Daily Blind, but it's just to illustrate my point.

Anywho, guess you just rate him more than I do. Or maybe I'm just jealous I'm not married to Shakira.
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CBs are pressed more in La Liga than they are in the Prem.
 
Keeps It tidy said:
CBs are pressed more in La Liga than they are in the Prem.
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Now I admit I don't watch La Liga that regularly, but are you saying opponents play high pressure against Barcelona?

I get that Spanish football is inherently more about pressing, but the gap between Barcelona and the rest of the league is huge compared to the top and the middle of the premier league.
 
RoyH1 said:
Barsa fans calling for Valverde's head are crazy. He's winning the league with a 15 point advantage over Real Madrid and could win the Cup too. You do not fire a manager who can give you a domestic double.

Barsa's midfield has too many average/declining players. He needs at least 2 top tier ones to get the team back to CL standards. And a fullback or two as well.
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Did you watch the game last night? He put the same team out who struggled in the first leg, don't let the 4-1 scoreline fool you. Barcelona were then comprehensively outplayed in the first half of the second leg and he failed to realise it at half time. It continued till Roma got a third with 8 minutes to go, THEN he bought on Alcacer and Dembele to try and get a goal.

He's a fraud. I've never seen a Barcelona team get as badly outplayed as they did last night, at least not since Real did it back in September. Even against Bayern and PSG in previous years they were able to create chances, least night they couldn't create anything. I think he'll rightly be sacked in the summer, even with a double, he's simply not a good enough coach, and it's probably the Champions League they want most. So close to a third treble too.
 
Apocalypse said:
Did you watch the game last night? He put the same team out who struggled in the first leg, don't let the 4-1 scoreline fool you. Barcelona were then comprehensively outplayed in the first half of the second leg and he failed to realise it at half time. It continued till Roma got a third with 8 minutes to go, THEN he bought on Alcacer and Dembele to try and get a goal.

He's a fraud. I've never seen a Barcelona team get as badly outplayed as they did last night, at least not since Real did it back in September. Even against Bayern and PSG in previous years they were able to create chances, least night they couldn't create anything. I think he'll rightly be sacked in the summer, even with a double, he's simply not a good enough coach, and it's probably the Champions League they want most. So close to a third treble too.
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You can't fire a coach that wins the league undefeated and the Copa del Rey. It would be insane regardless of last night's embarassment.

Claiming he's not a good enough coach because of one game is reactionary, he's done a very good job so far. I also don't see it ending well for him though, he doesn't play Barcelona style of football which means all it takes is a few bad results and he'll have fans turning on him.
 
Castia said:
I haven’t watched too many Barce games but they’ve run away with the league (actually undefeated) and was on the verge of a CL semi final but for a crazy turnaround game that happens very rarely, why are so many people suddenly suggesting the manager goes?
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Haven't watched them either but their squad isn't great and they were shit enough at the start of the season and supposedly even worse the past month. Going by what I read online, it's baffling how they haven't lost 10 games never mind 1.
 
Peyroteo said:
You can't fire a coach that wins the league undefeated and the Copa del Rey. It would be insane regardless of last night's embarassment.

Claiming he's not a good enough coach because of one game is reactionary, he's done a very good job so far. I also don't see it ending well for him though, he doesn't play Barcelona style of football which means all it takes is a few bad results and he'll have fans turning on him.
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If there is a club who would sack a manager in this situation it is Barca.
 
Snow said:
Not at all. Umtiti is one of the best CB's in the world. Fazio is a starter for Roma. Alba is a very good left back, Rakitic and Busquets are excellent midfielders. Suárez has been poor in the CL this season but he's one of the world's best strikers. Iniesta is still class and shows more frequent good performances by far than De Rossi who probably had his best game since turning 30.

Patrick Shick started for Roma. They have Kolarov who was finished last season. It's a good spine of Becker, Manolas, Naingolan, Strootman and Dzeko but none of those players would start for Barcelona.

Roma was the better team over the two legs but they're also 21 points behind a team that Barcelona handily beat earlier in the tournament. It was a supremely poor performance from them, worse than the 1st leg loss against PSG and comparable to the losses to Juventus last season and the thrashing Bayern gave them.

They are too reliant on Messi and when he has a bad game, bad things will happen to them.

If any other team in the CL knockouts would have lost this way to Roma it would have been an upset. For Barcelona it simply should not happen. It's one of the biggest upsets in memory because the difference is not only in team quality on paper but also form.

An exceptional win from Roma who have been phenomenal at home this year whilst not being particulalry good away from home. Out of the 4 teams left I think they'd prefer Bayern who have not been as good away from home as the other two. Yes they have 9 wins in 10 but they were far from convincing against Celtic, Anderlecht and Sevilla but managed a 2-1 in all of them.
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I think you are underrating Roma a bit here. Nainggolan, Florenzi and Manolas could replace Rakitic, Roberto and Pique without Barca dropping much, if anything, in quality. Dzeko and Kolarov have been in superb form lately and there are no glaring weaknesses in the Roma side. De Rossi has put in many excellent performances since turning 30. I get the feeling you haven’t watched Roma for a while.
 
Don't think they would miss Valverde at all if he left. Average manager IMO.
 
Infordin said:
Arthur is confirmed, I also want Sergej Milinkovic-Savic

We need midfielders who are both physical and technical.

At the moment our technical midfielders (Iniesta, Busquets, Rakitic) are slow as hell. Our physical midfielders (Paulinho, Gomes) can only pass sideways and backwards.

Who gives a feck about Griezmann. There are more important issues with this team.
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Always thought Pogba would be a great fit for Barca midfield.
 
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