Bayern München v Manchester United

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Feel much more confident for the away leg that I did the home tie. I'm expecting to see something like:

De Gea
Rafael Ferdinand Vidic Evra
Carrick Jones
Valencia Kagawa Welbeck
Rooney​

Mersault said:
no fracture? has that been confirmed?
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He was never missing this game. It was all a way to manoever him out of the Newcastle game without a backlash should we have been beat.
 
Welbeck and Valencia must start. Their pace is vital to stretch them on the break.
Kagawa should start due to his form, and his past experience in dismantling Bayern :drool:
Rooney should start if fit.
 
When defending:
De Gea
Valencia Rafael Ferdinand Vidic Evra Welbeck
Carrick Jones Kagawa
Rooney

When attacking:
De Gea
Rafael Ferdinand Vidic Evra
Carrick Jones

Kagawa

Valencia Rooney Welbeck

When winning:
De Gea
Valencia Rafael Ferdinand Carrick Jones Vidic Evra Welbeck
Kagawa
Rooney

When losing:
feck you Moyes.

​
 
I'm still wary we'll get thumped if I'm being honest. I may be overrating Bayern but I didn't think their performance in the first leg was anywhere near the standard they can reach.
 
KiD MoYeS said:
I'm still wary we'll get thumped if I'm being honest. I may be overrating Bayern but I didn't think their performance in the first leg was anywhere near the standard they can reach.
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True. But we did contain them quite well and gave a very disciplined and unified team effort. We weren't great attacking to say the least, but it seemed to me that Bayern didn't have another plan. It'll be different with Mandzukic starting this one but I doubt they'll thump us 11 vs 11.
 
Got a horrible feeling we'll have a player sent off, which will all but end our hopes of getting anything from the tie and CL for the foreseeable future.
 
Mersault said:
True. But we did contain them quite well and gave a very disciplined and unified team effort. We weren't great attacking to say the least, but it seemed to me that Bayern didn't have another plan. It'll be different with Mandzukic starting this one but I doubt they'll thump us 11 vs 11.
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I'd probably prefer Mandzukic to be starting over a false nine, I trust Ferdinand and Vidic to defend a straightforward striker.
 
KiD MoYeS said:
I'd probably prefer Mandzukic to be starting over a false nine, I trust Ferdinand and Vidic to defend a straightforward striker.
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I think we benefitted from Bayern not being particularly direct for the most part at OT. But when they did stick Mandzukic on it was essentially a knock down from his head which set up their goal. I personally would prefer them without a recognised striker because a methodical style of play is probably easier for us to defend against...we've had big problems containing half decent strikers (even some shithouses like Crouch and Anichebe) this season.

But as Mandzukic isn't 'all that' and benefits from playing with a group of exceptional midfielders I hope they can handle him.
 
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Bayern did not expect you to play so deep in the first match. If you would have played a little more open...

And they played with the "dynamic duo" in central midfield. Kroos and Schweinsteiger ain't really the optimum in some matches. For ball possession yes, but not if you want to make goals. Especially Robben can play as good as he wants and win all his duels - it does not matter he will be without result.

I do not think that the question Müller or Mandzukic was the problem in this match - your defenders just did not make a major mistake until the equalizer - the problems came from playing too slow and with too less movement. Then you cannot find any gaps. But I have not seen a "handball" match this season with only one striker in which the striker really looked well when the opponent was atleast decent equipped in the heading department. Sometimes we killed it then with two strikers.

If we would have played with Mandzukic from the start it would not have looked different. He did not win one header in the center of the box against Arsenal in both matches. It is not a thankful job for a single striker against really good defenders.

With Götze and/or Müller it will get different no matter if Bayern plays with Mandzukic or without.

But I can see Guardiola starting with a Pep solution without Mandzukic and with a 4-2-4. And if that does not work at the end you might even see 3 strikers...

If the result stays 0:0 somewhen United has to open the match.
 
Blackwidow said:
Bayern did not expect you to play so deep in the first match. If you would have played a little more open...
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I'm not sure I agree with that. Surely by now they've come to accept that as the norm 90% of the time? The gameplan was almost identical to that of last year vs Madrid though Bayern had a far higher territorial advantage because we didn't encourage our full-backs to go forward meaning we often had no outlet other than Welbeck.
 
We're NOT beating Bayern at the Allianz. Stop building hopes. This will be like Milan away in 2006-07. We'll be like deer in the headlights.
 
KiD MoYeS said:
I'd probably prefer Mandzukic to be starting over a false nine, I trust Ferdinand and Vidic to defend a straightforward striker.
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The way we defended in the first leg will leave us exposed if mandzukic starts this week.. We were effective in midfield coz there was no tracking into our 18 by the CM, it was Valencia falling back and allowing Jones to narrow in..
With Mandzukic on that gap between our cm and defence will be exposed by his knock downs. Unless we change our defensive strategy and hand them a free run on our midfield. If you ask me I'll say its bad news him starting.
 
ISSYNAZAR said:
I'm not sure I agree with that. Surely by now they've come to accept that as the norm 90% of the time? The gameplan was almost identical to that of last year vs Madrid though Bayern had a far higher territorial advantage because we didn't encourage our full-backs to go forward meaning we often had no outlet other than Welbeck.
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It is a different kind of sitting back that the German teams do. More pressing and counter pressing and very hard working defensive midfielders - not this kind of parked busses. I think that Kroos and Schweinsteiger even had much more time on the ball than they usually have.

When I watch the EPL I am usually surprised how easy it is to come from one penalty box to the other and how less pressing you see. It is a different kind of defending. When you loose the ball get back to your own box as fast as possible - not try to hunt back the ball.

City thought that they could play a match eye to eye with Bayern... - if it was not for the compleancy in the second match after already leading 5:1 in both matches...

I guess Guardiola expected you sitting back - just not that deep... A little more adventurous - Arsenal only sat back when they went down to 10 men.
 
Carl said:
Yes we are. 0-1.
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Hah! Care for a bet? Tenner to the caf?

The way I see it is that we're like their Olympiakos. 1-1 is a very very good result away from home. We were thrilled when we got that at Madrid last season. I think your judgement is being clouded by the fact that we showed a lot more grit compared to the rest of our season.
 
Interval Level said:
Hah! Care for a bet? Tenner to the caf?

The way I see it is that we're like their Olympiakos. 1-1 is a very very good result away from home. We were thrilled when we got that at Madrid last season. I think your judgement is being clouded by the fact that we showed a lot more grit compared to the rest of our season.
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I've already got money on it, I'm not prepared to lose even more if we fail! :p

I don't think Bayern are infallible and they're missing some big big players. It will be tough but I fancy us to hurt them on the counter. Hope Nani plays.
 
Carl said:
I've already got money on it, I'm not prepared to lose even more if we fail! :p

I don't think Bayern are infallible and they're missing some big big players. It will be tough but I fancy us to hurt them on the counter. Hope Nani plays.
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Ribery alone will kill us. I expect him to be a part of atleast 2 goals. I don't think we'll get two. Plus, we can't really repeat the same trick that we did in the first leg. They'll be prepared for it.
 
Interval Level said:
Ribery alone will kill us. I expect him to be a part of atleast 2 goals. I don't think we'll get two. Plus, we can't really repeat the same trick that we did in the first leg. They'll be prepared for it.
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Never have and still don't get the hype with Ribery. Good player sure but nothing special. Kept him quiet enough in the first leg too and on other occasions when we've come up against him.

Robben worries me more.
 
Interval Level said:
Ribery alone will kill us. I expect him to be a part of atleast 2 goals. I don't think we'll get two. Plus, we can't really repeat the same trick that we did in the first leg. They'll be prepared for it.
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Chelsea repeated the same trick vs Barcelona at Camp Nou after frustrating them at Bridge and scored 2. Not to mention playing large part of game with a man down.
 
I am feeling more confident with the good news on defensive injuries and because of our performance in the first leg. Bayern will surely miss Scheiwni, Martinez & Thiago.

This can't be good. I need to get back to feeling nervous and extremely cautious. :nervous:
 
ItsEssexRob said:
Nah been supporting United in most games lately, and typically you havent won any of them, but I almost always support English sides in Europe.

In fact Danny on here asked me to do my betting jinx to ensure you didnt lose, I backed Bayern a couple of quid.
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I was kidding mate :)
 
The Man Himself said:
Chelsea repeated the same trick vs Barcelona at Camp Nou after frustrating them at Bridge and scored 2. Not to mention playing large part of game with a man down.
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True. I just don't think we have the defensive prowess to match what Chelsea did. I'd like us to pack the midfield and stifle them but I just don't think it will work.
 
Interval Level said:
True. I just don't think we have the defensive prowess to match what Chelsea did. I'd like us to pack the midfield and stifle them but I just don't think it will work.
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I disagree a bit on defensive prowess. I mean, it was not JM on sideline who had setup Chelsea. Barca in fact had more chances to score, we limited Bayern to few chances. I think to play with that approach, discipline matters more and which Chelsea did brilliantly. Our defenders are good but will need to focus for whole 90 min, stay disciplined and midfielders will need to help them out a lot as well.
It is back against the walls job, but there is hope :)
 
The Man Himself said:
I disagree a bit on defensive prowess. I mean, it was not JM on sideline who had setup Chelsea. Barca in fact had more chances to score, we limited Bayern to few chances. I think to play with that approach, discipline matters more and which Chelsea did brilliantly. Our defenders are good but will need to focus for whole 90 min, stay disciplined and midfielders will need to help them out a lot as well.
It is back against the walls job, but there is hope :)
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Bayern will not be trying to force the issue too much as they already have the away goal. So having 29% possession this time will not cut it I am afraid. We will have to be a bit more adventurous. That is where my main fear is.
 
Playing an expansive 4-4-2 is just suicide.

Well, we have 2 options:

- Play a possession based game: Pack the midfield and take advantage of the suspension of their primary midfielders and try to generate something.
- Play a counter based game. Get more pace in the middle, soak their possession in and then hit quickly on the counter.

Personally I would not trust us for Option 1, we tend to lose possession more frequently. My choice is for Option 2.
 
NK86 said:
Bayern will not be trying to force the issue too much as they already have the away goal. So having 29% possession this time will not cut it I am afraid. We will have to be a bit more adventurous. That is where my main fear is.
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Yup. It is tougher job than Chelsea had against Barca as we have conceded away goal.
Although, in home game, with that 29% we did create good chances still. Not sure if their midfield will have same control while missing Thaigo, Martinez and Schweinsteiger. They won't sit back as that is not their style and they aren't accustomed to it. Maybe they will try to retain ball but be more careful. We just have to grab a goal from somewhere in first half. FKs, corners, anything and force them to come out at us in 2nd half risking another away goal. Lot easier said than done but I am hopeful.
 
The Man Himself said:
Yup. It is tougher job than Chelsea had against Barca as we have conceded away goal.
Although, in home game, with that 29% we did create good chances still. Not sure if their midfield will have same control while missing Thaigo, Martinez and Schweinsteiger. They won't sit back as that is not their style and they aren't accustomed to it. Maybe they will try to retain ball but be more careful. We just have to grab a goal from somewhere in first half. FKs, corners, anything and force them to come out at us in 2nd half risking another away goal. Lot easier said than done but I am hopeful.
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You are right. They won't sit back. But they will starve us of possession and if it remains goalless till around the 60 minute mark, you will see us go for it more. That will play right into their hands. Atleast that is what I would have thought of doing in Pep's position.
 
NK86 said:
You are right. They won't sit back. But they will starve us of possession and if it remains goalless till around the 60 minute mark, you will see us go for it more. That will play right into their hands. Atleast that is what I would have thought of doing in Pep's position.
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Yeah, if it is goalless in 2nd half till 60 min, we will have to have a go at them and that's what they will want. That's why I said that for us the ideal scenario will be finding a goal from somewhere in first half.
 
The Man Himself said:
Yup. It is tougher job than Chelsea had against Barca as we have conceded away goal.
Although, in home game, with that 29% we did create good chances still. Not sure if their midfield will have same control while missing Thaigo, Martinez and Schweinsteiger. They won't sit back as that is not their style and they aren't accustomed to it. Maybe they will try to retain ball but be more careful. We just have to grab a goal from somewhere in first half. FKs, corners, anything and force them to come out at us in 2nd half risking another away goal. Lot easier said than done but I am hopeful.
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At one point Chelsea were 2-0 down with ten men on the pitch. Their initial position was better than ours but in the game itself they came back from an almost impossible situation.
 
Siorac said:
At one point Chelsea were 2-0 down with ten men on the pitch. Their initial position was better than ours but in the game itself they came back from an almost impossible situation.
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iirc Barca went 1-0 up in first half, Ramires equalized on half time then Barca took lead again in 2nd half, Messi missed penalty to seal the game almost and in the end the Torres goal.
 
The Man Himself said:
iirc Barca went 1-0 up in first half, Ramires equalized on half time then Barca took lead again in 2nd half, Messi missed penalty to seal the game almost and in the end the Torres goal.
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No. Barca took the lead with a Busquets goal, Terry got himself sent off and then Iniesta scored to make it 2-0 in the 43rd minute. Ramires pulled one back two minutes later though and at that point Chelsea were going through but they were a man down.
 
Interval Level said:
True. I just don't think we have the defensive prowess to match what Chelsea did. I'd like us to pack the midfield and stifle them but I just don't think it will work.
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The back 4 which finished the game at the Nou Camp consisted of;

Ramires, Ivanovic, Bosingwa, Cole

I know other players sat back too but it was hardly a back 4 with defensive prowess.
 
Siorac said:
No. Barca took the lead with a Busquets goal, Terry got himself sent off and then Iniesta scored to make it 2-0 in the 43rd minute. Ramires pulled one back two minutes later though and at that point Chelsea were going through but they were a man down.
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ah OK.
 
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