Bebe | 2010/11 Performances

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Conspiracy theories. The preserve of the witless.

The shite about United being willing to spend millions and millions of pounds on Bebe and Diouf, just because the player's club/agent wanted them to really takes the biscuit.

Typical Red Issue bollox. They love a good conspiracy theory on there.
 
kundalini said:
Vidic wanted to leave. There was no interest from Milan, Real Madrid and Barca so he signed a new contract. Not that difficult to understand.

Nor are Sir Alex's comments about Anderson that surprising either. After all, Sir Alex regularly says one thing then does another, when it comes to transfers, team selections, injuries.
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Have you got any quotes of Vidic wanting to leave?
 
I've listened to the newstalk pieace with Daniel Taylor ( it up on itunes on last nights podcast if anyone wants to check it out). In fairness the bit is balanced enough. Taylor said the the feed back he's being getting from Carrington ( Players + staff ) is that he is very raw, and his touch isnt up to standard but obviously he's a young man who doesnt speak brilliant english who is just 2 weeks after a big move and wont be setteled in yet ect.

There is also a nod towards some messing about with the players agent. Bebe original agent was shafted pre-deal and some mega euopean agent ( whose name I cant remember ) was brought in to complete the deal

My own thoughts is thats is far too early to judge but its is a bit worrying all the same. Taylor obviously has some form of inside information but to what level I dont know
 
How knee-jerk...

He was always going to be a long-term project.

He doesn't speak a word of English apparently and this is a monumental step-up from where he has played before. There's nothing abnormal about him being kept back.
 
el eric said:
I've listened to the newstalk pieace with Daniel Taylor ( it up on itunes on last nights podcast if anyone wants to check it out). In fairness the bit is balanced enough. Taylor said the the feed back he's being getting from Carrington ( Players + staff ) is that he is very raw, and his touch isnt up to standard but obviously he's a young man who doesnt speak brilliant english who is just 2 weeks after a big move and wont be setteled in yet ect.

There is also a nod towards some messing about with the players agent. Bebe original agent was shafted pre-deal and some mega euopean agent ( whose name I cant remember ) was brought in to complete the deal

My own thoughts is thats is far too early to judge but its is a bit worrying all the same. Taylor obviously has some form of inside information but to what level I dont know
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It's conceivable that his raw touch could be nerves and having not settled in...
 
Feed Me said:
It's conceivable that his raw touch could be nerves and having not settled in...
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True and also that he touch wouldnt have been that good playing in the portugese 3rd division. Training with better players and better coaches should improve this but obviously takes time.
 
el eric said:
True and also that he touch wouldnt have been that good playing in the portugese 3rd division. Training with better players and better coaches should improve this but obviously takes time.
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Aye. Though, if I recall correctly, the original reports following his signing all talked about his technical gifts...

This is likely a case of a young player being mega nervous after a move that he could probably only have dreamt of. Not everyone can have the iron nerve of Ronaldo...

But we've got him in young and can treat him as a blank canvas. We can work with his footballing gifts and ingrain the United way into him.

Typical media bluster, all this Bebe-not-good-enough stuff. Also typical of the increasingly knee-jerk nature of the footballing world. He's been in the country for about 2 weeks!
 
The fact that there's a thread on this & that folk are debating the issue of Bebe being any use, only serves to give rise to the article in question!

How do we go from being excited & stunned by his signing to this debacle of a debate. Folk need to back off & just let our youth grow without pressure...
 
Get real, Red Hand, this is the internet, mate; the 90's bastard child of Generation X and a spaced-out, silicone cyber-monkey; the crudely pulsating hub of central-galactic hyper-porn; what do you expect?! We're nothing but teched-up binary-bunches of Kentucky-fried proto-synapses perched precariously atop semi-translucent fiber-optic glow-sticks; we're used to and well practised in flicking rapidly from one extreme of opinion to the other! None of it counts for shit.
 
ciderman9000000 said:
Get real, Red Hand, this is the internet, mate; the 90's bastard child of Generation X and a spaced-out, silicone cyber-monkey; the crudely pulsating hub of central-galactic hyper-porn; what do you expect?! We're nothing but teched-up binary-bunches of semi-fried proto-synapses perched precariously atop semi-translucent fiber-optic glow-sticks; we're used to and well practised in flicking rapidly from one extreme of opinion to the other! None of it counts for shit.
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:lol: words escape me :lol:
 
SittingBull said:
Fair my arse...... in most if not all the games, when it is goalless, Manchester United tend to go for a winner, wheres the other team will be contented with 1 point and start their time-wasting tactics, resulting in a lot more injury time, as compared to games where we are winning by 2-3 goals.
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Yeah, I know that. I wrote a long critique on that article a while back (sadly not on here) and even rewatched many of the matches to see the cause of the injury time given, but all I'm saying is that he has given the raw statistics for us - and no other team in the same position, where the factors you mentioned would also have come into play.
 
You know what would be brilliant? If Bebe came on/started against England and proceeded to absoloutely Pardew England's defence, forcing the media to backtrack on this disgusting agenda they have against him...
 
ciderman9000000 said:
Get real, Red Hand, this is the internet, mate; the 90's bastard child of Generation X and a spaced-out, silicone cyber-monkey; the crudely pulsating hub of central-galactic hyper-porn; what do you expect?! We're nothing but teched-up binary-bunches of semi-fried proto-synapses perched precariously atop semi-translucent fiber-optic glow-sticks; we're used to and well practised in flicking rapidly from one extreme of opinion to the other! None of it counts for shit.
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:lol: Brilliant
 
I'd like to see him with our own eyes before we pass judgement and write him off with regards to his capacity to play for a club of our stature.

That said I thought when he first signed that it was a risk (and not very calculated at that) to spend so much on such a untested player, one who'd barely played at the top level of his own country let alone come here and be expected to adapt straight away. The further issue which irked me was that Fergie himself had not watched him and yes I understand he trusts Queiroz, but lets be honest Ronaldo apart.. none of our talents signed from Portugal have been absolute rip roaring successes, though of course the potential Nani and Anderson have shown was worth taking the punt on.

When you consider home grown talents that we missed out on such as Ramsey/Bale and were unwilling to put in bigger bids and yet we can go ahead and splash £7mill plus on a foreign talent who is similarly untested, an older player(albeit not that much) and not used to the british way of life or lifestyle of a United footballer...

You just can't bang on about value in the market and then be so risky with your money, anyway I wish the lad well and hopefully in 2-3 years, he'll adapt and be ready for first team football.
 
rotherham_red said:
You know what would be brilliant? If Bebe came on/started against England and proceeded to absoloutely Pardew England's defence, forcing the media to backtrack on this disgusting agenda they have against him...
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If that happened they would ask why Ferguson has been holding him back or say that he can only play with players who speak Portuguese and make the language barrier the problem.
 
ciderman9000000 said:
Get real, Red Hand, this is the internet, mate; the 90's bastard child of Generation X and a spaced-out, silicone cyber-monkey; the crudely pulsating hub of central-galactic hyper-porn; what do you expect?! We're nothing but teched-up binary-bunches of semi-fried proto-synapses perched precariously atop semi-translucent fiber-optic glow-sticks; we're used to and well practised in flicking rapidly from one extreme of opinion to the other! None of it counts for shit.
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Very good.
 
el eric said:
There is also a nod towards some messing about with the players agent. Bebe original agent was shafted pre-deal and some mega euopean agent ( whose name I cant remember ) was brought in to complete the deal
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He's another Jorge Mendes / Gestifute player - but that's hardly surprising since Mendes is now big enough he can sign just about any ambitious young player in Portugal. As for pushing out the old agent, there are good historical precedents there. Ronaldo ditched his old agent, moved to Mendes and signed for us within a couple of months. Mourinho did the same thing prior to the Chelsea move.

As for the story. Well there isn't one really, is there? OGS talked about it taking 6 months for a new signing to adapt to the intensity of United's training. Bebe's come from nowhere and needs time. And that reserve team match was being used by a whole gaggle of senior players to get fit. If he's not ready for the reserves by the end of the season, I'd be more concerned.
 
ciderman9000000 said:
Get real, Red Hand, this is the internet, mate; the 90's bastard child of Generation X and a spaced-out, silicone cyber-monkey; the crudely pulsating hub of central-galactic hyper-porn; what do you expect?! We're nothing but teched-up binary-bunches of Kentucky-fried proto-synapses perched precariously atop semi-translucent fiber-optic glow-sticks; we're used to and well practised in flicking rapidly from one extreme of opinion to the other! None of it counts for shit.
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Remarkable, Mr Cider.
 
He'll probably be ready in around 9 months.
 
Too early to make any judgement about the lad, but like I predicted, this transfer has all the hallmarks of a disaster based on the comments issued by Fergie about not having seen him play and by the media which wants to humble our great club with another Ali Dia like transfer.

It's silly to be lead on by anything this early, but you just get the feeling the media and some agenda seeking journo's are already circling Bebe with a pre-written narrative in hand waiting for him to fail so they can take pop at united, and SAF.
 
jb8521 said:
If that happened they would ask why Ferguson has been holding him back or say that he can only play with players who speak Portuguese and make the language barrier the problem.
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On your first point, he'd be playing against England's U-21s, outside of Rodwell, Wilshere, Sturridge, and maybe Welbeck, the standard of the players are not as high as they would be in the Prem. Its a level, style and pace of play, which is not as unforgiving as that which he would expect in the Prem.

Anderson still speaks pigeon-English, the language barrier is no problem as long as Bebe can play in a tactical set-up, he will be fine. The media can say what they want about that, but really, their agenda will be shown up for what it is. I doubt they would be saying much if Bebe plays a hand in defeating the U-21s, the focus would be on why they lost, rather than on Bebe...
 
I'm still surprised people believe we paid £7m + for him. I know we only have his buy-out clause to go on, but think about it realistically - we didn't pay that much, and certainly not in the initial outlay.
 
RedKnight said:
I'm still surprised people believe we paid £7m + for him. I know we only have his buy-out clause to go on, but think about it realistically - we didn't pay that much, and certainly not in the initial outlay.
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Why are you 'surprised'? Its the only thing we have to go on. If the club says we triggered his buy-out clause, then we paid not a penny more or less than £7.4m up front, which is the whole purpose of thing. We cant turn around and say "feck it, we'll give you £3m and pay you another time, but we're taking the player". Once you trigger the buy-out clause, the player's club are powerless to do anything, as far as i'm aware anyway.
 
MacMUFC said:
Why are you 'surprised'? Its the only thing we have to go on. If the club says we triggered his buy-out clause, then we paid not a penny more or less than £7.4m up front, which is the whole purpose of thing. We cant turn around and say "feck it, we'll give you £3m and pay you another time, but we're taking the player". Once you trigger the buy-out clause, the player's club are powerless to do anything, as far as i'm aware anyway.
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Oh right, did the club actually say we triggered the clause? Fair enough then.

We still won't be paying £7.4m up front though, not that it makes much difference.

That's a fecking lot of money on someone we hadn't even seen play at anywhere near our level.
 
RedKnight said:
Oh right, did the club actually say we triggered the clause? Fair enough then.

We still won't be paying £7.4m up front though, not that it makes much difference.

That's a fecking lot of money on someone we hadn't even seen play at anywhere near our level.
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Well, the club rarely say "we triggered his release clasuse", but every single report has said so. Added to the fact that his previous club had a £7.4m release clause in his contract :p

It usually is up front though, I dont think you can pay release clauses in installments. As I said before, this is only as far as i'm aware so I may be wrong.

I know it is, which is why I was so surprised we'd pay that much for someone at that level and the caf only that too well... I still have my doubts. Jumping from the Portugese Third Divison to Manchester United in the Premier League with no real previous pedigree is like learning to run before you can crawl.
 
United have paid the buyout clause to release Bébé – was raised in an orphanage after spending part of his childhood on the streets and has represented Portugal in the Homeless World Cup – from his five-year contract at Guimarães only five weeks after he joined the club from Estrela da Amadora in the Portuguese third division.
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Thats just from one report and theres many more. Besides, why would we agree with his club Guimaraes to pay that much for an unproven player? A release clause is the only explanation. We might have put in a bid for him and they rejected it, waiting for us to make another offer to trigger his release clause.
 
Personally I think the reports only said that because they know he had a buyout clause. Not because they know we actually paid the buyout clause. But I can understand your POV on my "surprised" comment so I take that back.
 
All the reports on the fee was based on the first news story breaking and in that it was reported what his buyout clause would be.

However, the next day it was reported that the fee was undisclosed. Even when the President of the club spoke about the money, he only said that the amount will really help the club out but, never once did he say the buyout clause was triggered.

A buyout is the ability for a player to break their contract and transfer the player even against their wishes. We seemed to have agreed a fee with them and have chosen to list it as undisclosed.

The 7.4m is just a number that has hung around from the time the story broke - while the absence of confirmation doesn't prove that we paid less - it doesn't make sense that we'd say undisclosed if we triggered it the buyout inspite of the other clubs wishes.
 
Shimo said:
All the reports on the fee was based on the first news story breaking and in that it was reported what his buyout clause would be.

However, the next day it was reported that the fee was undisclosed. Even when the President of the club spoke about the money, he only said that the amount will really help the club out but, never once did he say the buyout clause was triggered.

A buyout is the ability for a player to break their contract and transfer the player even against their wishes. We seemed to have agreed a fee with them and have chosen to list it as undisclosed.

The 7.4m is just a number that has hung around from the time the story broke - while the absence of confirmation doesn't prove that we paid less - it doesn't make sense that we'd say undisclosed if we triggered it the buyout inspite of the other clubs wishes.
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Good summary. Considering the above points, the fact that Vitória de Guimarães got him on a free, and the fact that he hadn't even played a competitive game for them yet, I believe the fee we paid was significantly lower than £7.4m buy-out.
 
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