Berbatov | Fulham player

Guybrush Threepwood said:
Our strikers were fine and the Everton game is testament to that, our defense let us down in the big moments sadly.

Welbeck did very well as a striker imo, and I didn't rate him too highly at all before this season, his finish could improve for sure but the idea he didn't do well this year is that part I have a problem with as I believe it to be complete nonsense. SAF wouldn't have kept playing him over Hernandez if he believed that.
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He did very well? He only got 9 goals in 30 games and he was leading the line in most of those. He had a decent season FOR HIS AGE, there's a lot of potential there but that was not a very good season for a striker. As Snow said you're letting your excitement cloud your judgement.

Berbatov got 2 less goals than Welbeck, in 18 games less.
 
Smores said:
He did very well? He only got 9 goals in 30 games and he was leading the line in most of those. He had a decent season FOR HIS AGE, there's a lot of potential there but that was not a very good season for a striker. As Snow said you're letting your excitement cloud your judgement.

Berbatov got 2 less goals than Welbeck, in 18 games less.
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Berba scored against Aldershot, Benfica, Fulham in a 5-0 win, 3 goals vs. Wigan at home in a 5-0 win.

Those stats don't tell the true story. Mark Hughes didn't score many goals either, he did a great job.
 
There was no doubt that when Hernandez and Welbeck were atrocious in the middle of the season, he should've given a chance.
 
Guybrush Threepwood said:
Our strikers were fine and the Everton game is testament to that, our defense let us down in the big moments sadly.

Welbeck did very well as a striker imo, and I didn't rate him too highly at all before this season, his finish could improve for sure but the idea he didn't do well this year is that part I have a problem with as I believe it to be complete nonsense. SAF wouldn't have kept playing him over Hernandez if he believed that.
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Who said he didn't do well? Is criticizing a player and saying another player is better than him the same as saying he didn't do well? Not at all. I simply thought that Berba should have played more. He was our top scorer last season and he was good every time he was called upon this season despite not playing many games in a row and therefor not being match fit. We barely won a lot of games this season and that was mainly because our attack was poor. When DDG hit form and the defense hit shape our attack was letting us down. Berba wasn't used then and he wasn't used as a sub later on when we were rotating Hernandez and Welbeck every game because 1 month neither of them performed.

There was also a spell where Rooney didn't bother to show up. Perfect opportunity to use Berbatov. He was overlooked and I think it was a mistake by SAF not to use him a bit more. He did made a lot of team selection mistakes this season and weird substitutions on and off.
 
Guybrush Threepwood said:
You :confused:
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I specifically addressed what he did poorly and what he did well. When he got to the box he was poor. Striker are supposed to score goals. He didn't do that well. Got a couple more than Helguson who stopped playing for a relegated side in November.
He didn't provide many assists either. What he did well Berba also does well. Berba is a better player, that's for certain. But the reason Welbeck get's the nod is that he's a HG talent that is the future. Berba is not. So we better start grooming him. I haven't got a problem with that, I just think the balance was off. He played too much really. He wasn't playing well enough to merit all these minutes.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Cleverely got injured again and again. So he was never going to have a chance of challenging any of those 2 or Giggs even fora starting slot.

Unserious statement really.....

Adding Welbeck and Young obviously added pace to the team: Instead of having Park or Giggs coming in as alternatives for Nani/Valencia or Berbatov coming in for Hernandez, we had Welbeck and Young as options instead.

That qualifies as adding pace to the team.
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Thats adding it to the squad, which we clearly did do. But Berbatov was still a part of the squad. The problem is he was rarely part of the team and thats why he's upset.
 
Snow said:
Berba is a better player, that's for certain. But the reason Welbeck get's the nod is that he's a HG talent that is the future.
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Better player maybe.

Better suited to our game plan? not for me, that's why he's never been a roaring success here.

Welbeck got the nod because of his pace/style of game imo.
 
He just never really clicked with Rooney. Rooney's clearly our number 1 forward and Welbeck and Hernandez were just more fitting partners. It's left Berbatov out, not much more to it. It's hardly as if Fergie prefered Will Keane to him.
 
Amir said:
He just never really clicked with Rooney. Rooney's clearly our number 1 forward and Welbeck and Hernandez were just more fitting partners. It's left Berbatov out, not much more to it. It's hardly as if Fergie prefered Will Keane to him.
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Can't really argue with this appraisal.
 
kouroux said:
How do you know that if he could compete with them SAF would choose him ?
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Thats what competing is. Taking games from the other players that one of them would otherwise have played.

You're telling me that in essence I can't know for sure about SAF's decision but you somehow can ?
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Its pretty black and white, if you rate a player highly and think he can compete with two other strikers, you're going to use him in the team every once in a while. That didnt happen with Berbatov.

He had a run of games then finito at the business end of the season. And that bit sort of sums up his time here. As I recall, in almost every season when it comes to the title run in another striker has taken Berbatov's place. Be it Tevez, Hernandez or... Well I guess Welbeck had the shirt in the first place, Hernandez had a run and then Welbeck had it back. Point is he was still left out like before.

There are about a million times more different parameters to take into account in giving a player playing minutes than "he can't compete with them".
It's not just an issue of player's ability and quality
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The essence of competition is that you can win or lose. If you only win, its not competative. Welbeck and Hernandez never lost their place to Berbatov.

And the judge was Sir Alex himself. Someone who on the balance of things, gave Berbatov the benefit of the doubt so many times during his time here. Granted more-so at the beginning than at the end, but thats only natural when you have a new player. You hope for the best.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
It's adding to the team. Because those with pace, bar the midfield and Ferdinad were always given a start. I suspect that could be why even Park had far less games than in seasons past.
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You dont think its more likely to be because Ashley Young is a better player and would be even if he had no pace? Plus we crashed out of the champions league before the latter stages that Park generally gets picked in?

Also because of that we didnt need to keep him as fresh using him in league games.
 
Guybrush Threepwood said:
Better player maybe.

Better suited to our game plan? not for me, that's why he's never been a roaring success here.

Welbeck got the nod because of his pace/style of game imo.
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Roaring success? What's that's supposed to mean? One of 3 United players to receive the golden boot in the PL.

The gameplan wasn't the same throughout the season. We barely had our best team in any of the games. In a regular 4-4-2 he does well. Welbeck doesn't play any better. There are only handful of games were that was the case. With Scholes and Carrick he definitely didn't fit better. Countless times we needed a different creative outlet up front. That fast paced free flowing passing game we saw in the first 3-4 games of the season only came back once or twice in the same form. I think SAF was expecting to see that again but it never was delivered. Fact is we didn't play that way and Welbeck's pace wasn't really utilized like it could have because or game was very passive for the majority of the game time each game.

It might and I think it really should be better next season because of this season and how it played out.
 
Another thing we seem to fail to consider is how Berbatov performed in training during each week.

There are more than a few reasons he has barely featured for the past 15 or so months.

I think it's safe to assume he never did enough to convince Fergie that he was deserving of more game time.
 
Snow said:
Roaring success? What's that's supposed to mean? One of 3 United players to receive the golden boot in the PL.
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The same season he was left out of the run-in and totally left out of the squad for the CL final.

A "roaring success" was being nice, our record signing has been a let down, some lovely moments but in general, nothing like what we'd hope for.

There's no denying that.
 
Ekeke said:
Thats what competing is. Taking games from the other players that one of them would otherwise have played.



Its pretty black and white, if you rate a player highly and think he can compete with two other strikers, you're going to use him in the team every once in a while. That didnt happen with Berbatov.

He had a run of games then finito at the business end of the season. And that bit sort of sums up his time here. As I recall, in almost every season when it comes to the title run in another striker has taken Berbatov's place. Be it Tevez, Hernandez or... Well I guess Welbeck had the shirt in the first place, Hernandez had a run and then Welbeck had it back. Point is he was still left out like before.



The essence of competition is that you can win or lose. If you only win, its not competative. Welbeck and Hernandez never lost their place to Berbatov.

And the judge was Sir Alex himself. Someone who on the balance of things, gave Berbatov the benefit of the doubt so many times during his time here. Granted more-so at the beginning than at the end, but thats only natural when you have a new player. You hope for the best.
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No it's not, coaching at the highest isn't black and white.Sometimes you're forced to make certain that'll surprise and even shock some people like a seemingly better for another.If SAF decided to give Hernandez/Welbeck more playing than Berbatov it's not because they were better than him IMHO, it's just that their style of play is better suited for this United team than Berbatov.
You would think he was a massive flop and you would think he's always been poor listening to you.I'm surprised by your over simplistic view of football.
 
Ekeke said:
You dont think its more likely to be because Ashley Young is a better player and would be even if he had no pace?
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No. If being better was the strict criteria for a player like him being picked Welbeck and Chicharito would never have got as many games as they did with the kind of scoring run they were both in and Young would never have played when a Nani was fit.

Ekeke said:
Plus we crashed out of the champions league before the latter stages that Park generally gets picked in?
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He also usually gets picked for our title run in. This time he hardly featured at all. His appearance vs City for example was his first in ages.
 
So when so many of us were suggesting that Berbatov was not all some thought he was and that obviously Ferguson felt the same way we were in fact..................RIGHT!!

Bye bye lazy Dimi - you never got the message and Fergie, who I am quite sure can be quite a cnut towards someone who doesn't do as he asks, decided to teach you a long lesson.
 
kouroux said:
No it's not, coaching at the highest isn't black and white.Sometimes you're forced to make certain that'll surprise and even shock some people like a seemingly better for another.If SAF decided to give Hernandez/Welbeck more playing than Berbatov it's not because they were better than him IMHO, it's just that their style of play is better suited for this United team than Berbatov.
You would think he was a massive flop and you would think he's always been poor listening to you.I'm surprised by your over simplistic view of football.
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No matter which way you want to put it the end result is the same. Berbatov was unable to compete with Welbeck and Hernandez for that starting spot in the team, be it because he doesnt suit the team or any other thing you want to throw out there. He's only competition for a place if he can win it. If the others have to be out injured then he's just a backup
 
Guybrush Threepwood said:
The same season he was left out of the run-in and totally left out of the squad for the CL final.

A "roaring success" was being nice, our record signing has been a let down, some lovely moments but in general, nothing like what we'd hope for.

There's no denying that.
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I think you're underestimating the caf. There will always be plenty of people willing to deny things for Berbatov. All things.
 
Using Berbatov probably wouldn't have changed the outcome of the season, we scored more goals and had a better GD in the league then we did the prior season. The biggest reason we did not win the title again was that City was better than they were a year ago, better enough to pip us for the title. Berbatov would not have changed that one bit.

The other big issue in terms of costing us points were defensive lapse as in the Everton game, again nothing Berbatov would have done would have changed that.

So he didn't play, no big deal, he will be leaving this summer in all likely hood, well players come and go.

Of course if we just want to use the well he played alot last year and we won the title, then he did not play this year and we did not win the title, well then why not ask when was the last time we won the CL? Think about it, if we are just going to use that type of logic.
 
JustAFan said:
Using Berbatov probably wouldn't have changed the outcome of the season, we scored more goals and had a better GD in the league then we did the prior season. The biggest reason we did not win the title again was that City was better than they were a year ago, better enough to pip us for the title. Berbatov would not have changed that one bit.

The other big issue in terms of costing us points were defensive lapse as in the Everton game, again nothing Berbatov would have done would have changed that.

So he didn't play, no big deal, he will be leaving this summer in all likely hood, well players come and go.

Of course if we just want to use the well he played alot last year and we won the title, then he did not play this year and we did not win the title, well then why not ask when was the last time we won the CL? Think about it, if we are just going to use that type of logic.
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By using that logic you could say the same if we had a fit Vidic. Wouldn't have changed the outcome at all.
 
How? We conceeded a lot more this season than we did last season with Vidic. I think you missed his point
 
Snow said:
By using that logic you could say the same if we had a fit Vidic. Wouldn't have changed the outcome at all.
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Not really Vidic might have prevented some of the defensive lapses, through his leadership. Since we already scored more goals in the league this season with very little use of Berbatov as compared to last season when he played quite a bit more. So really we were not lacking in the areas Berbatov might have made a difference in.


Though I suppose somebody is going to now tell us how much of a leader Berbatov is also.
 
Come on Vidic got us goals to and was our main aerial threat in corners, he's the best defender in the world in my books... Why bring up Vida in a berba thread ?

Anyway, I think Berbs has had a lot of time to prove himself but the only reason why he didn't make it with us is that he didn't linkup well with Rooney, he lacked movement thus we looked much better even with an inexperienced Hernandez in some games.

Berbs technical ability is one of the best in the world, its too bad that he'd be a much better player if the team was built around him, not a support player for Rooney.

I wish him the best of luck, he has handled the situation really well and all the best to him. His hat trick against the scousers will never be forgotten.
 
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