Berbatov | Fulham player

[Amir]

Veron wasn't given the same amount of time for a reason. Why do you think that is? Because if a player doesn't fit, Fergie gets rid.

It's never that easy, though, is it? We got a bit lucky that Chelsea got cash rich and offered good money for Veron, after two years in which it seemed he wasn't in tune with the English game. We still made a loss, but it could have been worse. Would we have kept Berba had someone offered, say, 18m for him after a couple of years?

Also should be pointed out that because of Veron's position in midfield, the fact he didn't really fit into our style meant bigger damage than a similar player who plays upfront.

 

[cinc]

Some terrible points there about Berbatov. For how many minutes he's actually played this season his goals to game ratio must be pretty good. How is he fighting for the 4th attacking spot? I dont get that one, unless Diouf and Macheda have a chance of getting ahead of him I've been harsh on Berba before but some comments on here are so wide off the mark. He comes into the team and plays well but that's not enough for some people.

he's scored in every 62 minutes of playtime in the PL. Rooney is on 107 min/goal, Hernandez 132, Welbeck 194, Nani 230.

 

[mariachi-19]

Because they live in the real world.

Because Berbatov would tell them to go and get fecked.

No, they aren't. The club pay him what they feel he is worth. Otherwise, they tell him to piss off. This is not complicated. Nor does it detract from the issue at hand, which is you constantly using his wages as a stick to beat him with.

The club pay him what they feel he is worth, after negotiations with his agent, determined by the performance of the player.

What are you talking about? There have been no negotiations, as far as I know. And why would there be, the club can exercise the clause to extend his contract by a year when they so choose.

Manchester open Dimitar Berbatov contract talks | Mail Online

Again, utter, utter nonsense. Bridge has been informed he has no future at the club. Yet has no intention of leaving. Terrible comparison.
Bridge is no choice. He doesn't even make the squad. United regularly rotate our 4 strikers.
Bridge doesn't even train with the first team.

Berbatov is a player that would be first choice in a handful of really good european sides. Just because he's at another level to Bridge, doesn't mean he's not pissing his career away rotting on the bench.

Veron wasn't given the same amount of time for a reason. Why do you think that is? Because if a player doesn't fit, Fergie gets rid.

And he's been utterly determined to give Berbatov enough time to prove he's not a failure, but he's started going down the pecking order since his first season. In 09/10 we reverted to Rooney playing the sole striker, in 10/11 he was dumped when we realized we played better football with Hernandez and Rooney instead, and this year Welbeck has added further competition, putting him down to 4th.

Top scorer in the league last year. I believe you will also find that his goal scoring record with United is similar, or better than his time with Spuds. Did you think we were signing Alan Shearer?

I expected a player entering the prime of their career to step it up another notch in a far better team. The fact that he's consistent with his spurs levels show that it was his level. In fact looking at his stats, he's yet to reach the yearly totals he had at spurs.

 

[pocco]

Some terrible points there about Berbatov. For how many minutes he's actually played this season his goals to game ratio must be pretty good. How is he fighting for the 4th attacking spot? I dont get that one, unless Diouf and Macheda have a chance of getting ahead of him I've been harsh on Berba before but some comments on here are so wide off the mark. He comes into the team and plays well but that's not enough for some people.

I take it you're not talking about my post there, as I never said he's fighting for fourth spot. With regards to your last sentence, I could be seen as one of those that aren't giving him his due praise for yesterday. I came into this thread with the intention of doing so until I saw posts saying Berbatov should be first choice and that he's better than Welbeck. These people have obviously been waiting these last few months for a good performance from Dimitar just so they could come out with stuff.

 

[pocco]

he's scored in every 62 minutes of playtime in the PL. Rooney is on 107 min/goal, Hernandez 132, Welbeck 194, Nani 230.

Probably because he plays against all the shite. His stats would look different if he played to top teams. Just goes to show how misleading stats can be.

 

[Zarlak]

Probably because he plays against all the shite. His stats would look different if he played to top teams. Just goes to show how misleading stats can be.

I wouldn't be so sure of that, because the other players you see in the comparisons more often than not also play against all the shite, and still don't score. When they both play the same teams and one scores more goals per minute, it's still justified.

 

[Boss]

There's no problem with being a flat track bully, it's where most of our points come from. Win these kind of games home and away and you're fine.

Look at city can't even score against west brom, if Berba does people will hold it against him.

 

[Bryan_Munich]

I'll say it again, I don't believe we have such a thing as 3rd and 4th choice.

 

[Orton]

Probably because he plays against all the shite. His stats would look different if he played to top teams. Just goes to show how misleading stats can be.

What rubbish, the same Wigan Torres, Drogba and Suarez failed to score against and the same Fulham team that Chelsea and Liverpool also failed to beat. Stats can be misleading, but i have never once seen a hatrick downplayed so much from a United player. If Hernandez, Rooney or Welbeck scored it however i'd expect reactions on here to be different.

 

[cinc]

Probably because he plays against all the shite. His stats would look different if he played to top teams. Just goes to show how misleading stats can be.

Hernandez played yesterday, but scored none. Also half of his six PL goals from these season came against Bolton and Swansea. (This is not a dig against him, I love him, but I believe Berbatov can be a huge asset for United too.)

Welbeck 4 goals came from a Norwich game and three stompings (Spurs, Arsenal, Fulham)

 

[mariachi-19]

There's no problem with being a flat track bully, it's where most of our points come from. Win these kind of games home and away and you're fine.

Look at city can't even score against west brom, if Berba does people will hold it against him.

Its called form, and our squad is red hot at the moment. I doubt even Rooney would be having such a terrific time if he were at City at the moment. Swings and round abouts. Right now really is the right time to get our out of form players in form. Easy games with a squad firing helps build confidence.

 

[Orton]

I take it you're not talking about my post there, as I never said he's fighting for fourth spot. With regards to your last sentence, I could be seen as one of those that aren't giving him his due praise for yesterday. I came into this thread with the intention of doing so until I saw posts saying Berbatov should be first choice and that he's better than Welbeck. These people have obviously been waiting these last few months for a good performance from Dimitar just so they could come out with stuff.

Marchi's and others who are downplaying his contributions. I don't we really have a first choice partner for Rooney tbh. Whoever is scoring the goals should play up alongside him as right now Hernandez looks out of sorts and is a better impact off the bench. Welbeck is still only 20 and will get plenty more games for the season too.

 

[sdb4884]

Glad for Berbatov that he did well yesterday, if he gets proper playing time I have no doubt he can score a vast amount of goals in the second half of the season.

 

[mufcwarm92]

Great to have four top strikers fit and on form. Deja vu anyone?

 

[mariachi-19]

Marchi's and others who are downplaying his contributions. I don't we really have a first choice partner for Rooney tbh. Whoever is scoring the goals should play up alongside him as right now Hernandez looks out of sorts and is a better impact off the bench. Welbeck is still only 20 and will get plenty more games for the season too.

I'm not playing down his hat trick yesterday. I thought it was fantastic especially that strike for his second . I'm downplaying his inconsistent career at United.


Btw apparently the Leverkusen rumors are sourced by Bild 'German newspaper' from one of Berbatovs agents.

 

[Boss]

Its called form, and our squad is red hot at the moment. I doubt even Rooney would be having such a terrific time if he were at City at the moment. Swings and round abouts. Right now really is the right time to get our out of form players in form. Easy games with a squad firing helps build confidence.

The fact of the matter is that most of our points come from these teams outside the top 4 which Berba can destroy. There's little point in mentioning his contributions to big games.

His 21 goals last year helped us to the prem. We had a certain Portuguese winger who was ruthless against such teams as we marched to 3 prems in a row.

Saying it's only Wigan is pointless, it doesn't have to be the Chelseas of this world. We beat these so called smaller teams home and away all season and the title is ours.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Because Berbatov would tell them to go and get fecked.

As I said, they live in the real world.

The club pay him what they feel he is worth, after negotiations with his agent, determined by the performance of the player.

Now you are getting it. Now what part of that constitutes Berbatov, or his agent setting his wages, as you implied?

Manchester open Dimitar Berbatov contract talks | Mail Online

Surely you can do better than a "story" by an anonymous reporter with no quotes?

Berbatov is a player that would be first choice in a handful of really good european sides. Just because he's at another level to Bridge, doesn't mean he's not pissing his career away rotting on the bench.

Except he isn't rotting on the bench. Your Bridge comparison is fecking retarded.

And he's been utterly determined to give Berbatov enough time to prove he's not a failure,

And he has done that, as much as it annoys you.

but he's started going down the pecking order since his first season.

That is just factually incorrect.

Yeah In 09/10 we reverted to Rooney playing the sole striker, in 10/11 he was dumped when we realized we played better football with Hernandez and Rooney instead, and this year Welbeck has added further competition, putting him down to 4th.

As I said, we regularly rotate our strikers. But you already know that. It's not just limited to our strikers, either. We rotate all of our squad. Yet I don't see you bitching about their wage packets when they are on the bench.

I expected a player entering the prime of their career to step it up another notch in a far better team. The fact that he's consistent with his spurs levels show that it was his level. In fact looking at his stats, he's yet to reach the yearly totals he had at spurs.

Again, factually incorrect. Berbatov really drives you around the bend. It's embarrassing, because you are usually quite normal.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I'll say it again, I don't believe we have such a thing as 3rd and 4th choice.

There is certainly an order of preference no matter how you put it. Like how vidic is definitely a first choice central defender and Jones right now is not. Similarly, Berbatov has certainly been behind Rooney, welbeck and hernandez in the pecking order of late. It doesn't mean the guy not out in front won't ever play, but hell be used more sparingly and in the less important games.

If you actually believe our whole squad is a horses for courses squad, then you're wrong.

 

[mariachi-19]

The fact of the matter is that most of our points come from these teams outside the top 4 which Berba can destroy. There's little point in mentioning his contributions to big games.

His 21 goals last year helped us to the prem. We had a certain Portuguese winger who was ruthless against such teams as we marched to 3 prems in a row.

Saying it's only Wigan is pointless, it doesn't have to be the Chelseas of this world. We beat these so called smaller teams home and away all season and the title is ours.

Except in 07/08, and 09/10 and last year. Big games win seasons. If we beat Chelsea in 09/10, we have 4 titles in a row. We needed to beat Arsenal in 07/08 otherwise we'd have potentially lost the title to Chelsea. We had to beat or draw with Chelsea last year 'imo' to win the title. Big games mean alot when other teams are just as capable as beating the cannon fodder.

 

[buckooo1978]

Berbatov is still a valuable member of the squad and should have played more often this season

he obviously has his limitations though and his style contrast with Manchester United at their best

at our best we are pacey, fluid and direct - when Berbatov plays our play slows down a bit, defences have time to settle and his intelligent passing and goalscoring rate comes into play - its obvious to see

this makes Berbatov ideal for home games where the opposition try to play defensively - his goalscoring rate home and away at united are polar opposites

I think he should play in home games against lesser teams and it will give rooney a well needed rest at times

against the top sides who will have a go and leave some space in behind its ideal for Chicarito and Welbeck to partner Rooney - Chicharito struggled yesterday as we played the game in Wigans final third of the pitch and he wasn't able to get in behind

To have a player of the class of berbatov as your 4th striker and who is happy to sit on the bench is valuable to us

you have to ask yourself - the guy has 6 months/18 months left at united - if we were to sell him who could we bring in that would be happy to play in rotation like berbatov? I cant think of anyone and we obviously can't rely on owen - if we sold him without replacing him who benefits apart from the glazers

 

[pocco]

I wouldn't be so sure of that, because the other players you see in the comparisons more often than not also play against all the shite, and still don't score. When they both play the same teams and one scores more goals per minute, it's still justified.

Yes they do, but they play the top teams too, which Berbatov doesn't, who obviously have the better defences. How can this be a fair comparison?

There's no problem with being a flat track bully, it's where most of our points come from. Win these kind of games home and away and you're fine.

Look at city can't even score against west brom, if Berba does people will hold it against him.

No I'm definitely not criticising Berbatov for only scoring against these teams. To be fair, it's only against these teams that he really gets a chance nowadays. I was just saying that you can't use those stats to prove anything as he doesn't play the big matches which more often than not add another 90mns without a goal to your name.

What rubbish, the same Wigan Torres, Drogba and Suarez failed to score against and the same Fulham team that Chelsea and Liverpool also failed to beat. Stats can be misleading, but i have never once seen a hatrick downplayed so much from a United player. If Hernandez, Rooney or Welbeck scored it however i'd expect reactions on here to be different.

I couldn't care less who has failed to score there. That is irrelevant. I could see that not only did Wigan have ten men, but they were also a utterly useless all over the pitch. I don't need to know how they have done in other games.

I'm not trying to downplay Berbatovs hatrick. I'm just trying to add balance to the people that are concluding that a hatrick here means Berbatov should be starting or is better than Welbeck, who has rightfully been first choice this season.

 

[Boss]

Except in 07/08, and 09/10 and last year. Big games win seasons. If we beat Chelsea in 09/10, we have 4 titles in a row. We needed to beat Arsenal in 07/08 otherwise we'd have potentially lost the title to Chelsea. We had to beat or draw with Chelsea last year 'imo' to win the title. Big games mean alot when other teams are just as capable as beating the cannon fodder.

Big games mean a lot but the teams outside the top 4 mean even more as this is where you get the majority of points from.

Berba can only contribute in the smaller games and have a significance by impact, just like last year.

Why his contributions are held against him is beyond me.

 

[Bryan_Munich]

People need to realise that the reason for Welbeck starting ahead of Berbatov in the early part of season, for example, is not simply down to Welbeck 'being better'.

 

[Boss]

People need to realise that the reason for Welbeck starting ahead of Berbatov in the early part of season, for example, is not simply down to Welbeck 'being better'.

I thought it's fairly obvious.

 

[Orton]

It doesn't matter if you win the big games if you can't beat everyone else. Look at Liverpool for example who have of late been playing well against the City's, Arsenal's and Chelsea's but can't beat Wigan, Norwich, Swansea etc... What is a big game player? Berb has had his fair share of good games for us against some top sides and against some small sides but his contribution last year led to us winning the title, which cannot go unnoticed. Maybe the 30 million price tag brought more expectancy alongside it from him but he has been far from a flop.

 

[cinc]

Big games mean a lot but the teams outside the top 4 mean even more as this is where you get the majority of points from.

Berba can only contribute in the smaller games and have a significance by impact, just like last year.

Why his contributions are held against him is beyond me.

I remember many were talking about Ronaldo "as a non big game player"...

 

[Bryan_Munich]

I thought it's fairly obvious.

You would have thought so.

 

[mariachi-19]

As I said, they live in the real world.

Now you are getting it. Now what part of that constitutes Berbatov, or his agent setting his wages, as you implied?

His performances.

Surely you can do better than a "story" by an anonymous reporter with no quotes?

It's funny that Berbatov fans were ecstatic when rumors were flying around of a new contract for him early last year, but when one was never agreed, you now want proof that it was happening.

Except he isn't rotting on the bench. Your Bridge comparison is fecking retarded.

Berbatov has hardly played this season, mostly because he's been sitting on the bench. I'd say he's being wasted away.

And he has done that, as much as it annoys you.

It annoys me that he's not first choice when it's beyond clear he can be so good. I would like nothing more then for him to turn a corner and become the player everybody hoped he would be for United.

That is just factually incorrect.

Berbatov has started 3 premier league games this season. Thats not rotation, that's being benched because there are 3 better options.

As I said, we regularly rotate our strikers. But you already know that. It's not just limited to our strikers, either. We rotate all of our squad. Yet I don't see you bitching about their wage packets when they are on the bench.

Most of our bench players are hardly as talented as Berbatov.

Again, factually incorrect. Berbatov really drives you around the bend. It's embarrassing, because you are usually quite normal.

How is it incorrect? He scored 23 goals in each season at spurs. He's only just this year bettered that record. He's also failed to improve as a player at United.

 

[buckooo1978]

People need to realise that the reason for Welbeck starting ahead of Berbatov in the early part of season, for example, is not simply down to Welbeck 'being better'.

i think its more to do with welbecks style

when he plays it reminds me of 06/07 when we had saha playing brilliantly with Rooney and Ronaldo - we were absolutely fantastic going forward that season

we are at our best when we have a fluid attack with players interchanging positions and welbeck fits that perfectly - I think Danny will be our most important striker over the next 5 years after Rooney

 

[Hectic]

I'll say it again, I don't believe we have such a thing as 3rd and 4th choice.

We don't, and I'm confident by the end of the season we would have saw exactly what we talked about in November.

 

[KingEric7]

I can't help but like Berbatov. I can't even remember if I wanted him here given the options we already had upfront, but I wish him nothing but the best everytime he plays.

It was a great game from him yesterday, and it was nice to see him enjoying his football. I hope we keep him - he's an amazing player to have in the squad.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

As I said, they live in the real world.





His performances.


It's funny that Berbatov fans were ecstatic when rumors were flying around of a new contract for him early last year, but when one was never agreed, you now want proof that it was happening.


Berbatov has hardly played this season, mostly because he's been sitting on the bench. I'd say he's being wasted away.



It annoys me that he's not first choice when it's beyond clear he can be so good. I would like nothing more then for him to turn a corner and become the player everybody hoped he would be for United.


Berbatov has started 3 premier league games this season. Thats not rotation, that's being benched because there are 3 better options.


Most of our bench players are hardly as talented as Berbatov.




How is it incorrect? He scored 23 goals in each season at spurs. He's only just this year bettered that record. He's also failed to improve as a player at United.

We are going around in circles on the rest of this shit, but as for your last part. You said:

In fact looking at his stats, he's yet to reach the yearly totals he had at spurs.

I am talking about league goals. He scored 12 and 15 at Spuds. He has got 9, 12, and 20 with us.

 

[pocco]

Big games mean a lot but the teams outside the top 4 mean even more as this is where you get the majority of points from.

Berba can only contribute in the smaller games and have a significance by impact, just like last year.

Why his contributions are held against him is beyond me.

Why dint you try reading what people are saying. You're being so defensive of Berbatov and it just says it all really.

You can't compare Berbatov's goals to minutes, meaningfully, with our other strikers. This is because they have to face the better defences whereas Berbatov doesn't. Nobody is daft enough to say that goals in one game count less than any other, so stop trying to create this argument.

Also, let's not forget that Rooney has spent time in midfield this season, which doesn't help his goals to minutes. Useless stat.

People need to realise that the reason for Welbeck starting ahead of Berbatov in the early part of season, for example, is not simply down to Welbeck 'being better'.

What would you say it means? Generally what you say here is correct, but in my opinion I think Welbeck is better.

 

[KM]

Welbeck better than Berbatov?
People are going absolutely crazy here, much as I love Danny, Berbatov right now is the much better player.

 

[devilish]

I think that Berba is on borrowed time at United. It may be the case of Welbeck rise in prominence (he's still not at Berba's level but he's got time on his side), or due to Berba's age (is it worth to keep a 30 yr old on a big salary as 3rd striker?), however I can't see him remain at OT for long. I can't see how a hat-trick against 10 men Wigan can change that.

 

[finneh]

Agents set wages marchi??????

Pretty sure Rooney's did.

Berbatov is a top class player who has just never really fit into our system. Occasionally it all comes together and he absolutely annihilates opponents, which is a joy to behold and the reason that so many people think he is such a majestic player.

His problem has never been his top level, it's his medium-low level which can plunge to very low depths and not only not help our play, but stifle it. In the right system Berbatov could be one of the top five players in the World, but unfortunately like Veron at United and Ibrahimovic at Barcelona, 80% of the time his style is not suited to our play.

Does this mean he should be sold? Not necessarily. He is very useful to have around, although I do believe that if a young striker with potential comes onto Fergie's radar, then he will have no qualms about shipping Berbatov out to make room.

 

[Edmeiste]

Pretty sure Rooney's did.

Come again? I'm sure he did. There's a reason clubs and agents negotiate.

 

[EricaNo7]

It's as though some of you are discussing an opposing team's player , not ours. We're all United fans aren't we?

 

[Kelvin]

seem like Berbatov can't do anything right for us, scoring goals or not.

piss off haters.

 

[Bryan_Munich]