I think there is more to come, the point I was making was that we don't need to sell him, we aren't in need of money.
Berbatov | Fulham player
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Silence the wingers?
Anyway I thought most people shut up last season, where he was coming up with big goals including the hat-trick against Liverpool. It seems that being dropped towards the end has made people forget the good work he provided for the majority.
At the end of the day we wouldn't have won the league without Berbatov's influence, that's a significant contribution in my opinion.
He's not going to be that lad who constantly stretches defenses but we knew that before we bought him. His penetration isn't as constant like that of Hernadez, but Berba provides a different stoke as he has more natural ability.
It's Berba's unique creativity and vision to come up with insane pieces of skills and passes nobody else sees that means he's always an asset.
As good as Hernadez is, especially with the off the ball runs. He can't make things happen on his own like Berba can.
An asset not worth getting rid of at this point of time. If we get rid of him our rivals would be chuffed.
I'm not sure that it's true that '[p]eople want Berba to go so bad'.
There has been speculation about a potential offer from PSG and given Berbatov's age and contract situation, it should be unsurprising that there is some discussion about his future.
That some 'people want Berba to [stay] so bad' is not a reason to ignore reality. He really is 30 years old, he really does only have one year left on his contract (although there is an option for a further year), and he really has been linked with a £20m move to PSG.
These are facts, and that is what most people are discussing, not the quotes from Sir Alex. Whether I would personally prefer Berbatov to remain at the club is irrelevant to a discussion about whether the club (not I) would or even should accept an offer of £20m.
There has been speculation about a potential offer from PSG and given Berbatov's age and contract situation, it should be unsurprising that there is some discussion about his future.
That some 'people want Berba to [stay] so bad' is not a reason to ignore reality. He really is 30 years old, he really does only have one year left on his contract (although there is an option for a further year), and he really has been linked with a £20m move to PSG.
These are facts, and that is what most people are discussing, not the quotes from Sir Alex. Whether I would personally prefer Berbatov to remain at the club is irrelevant to a discussion about whether the club (not I) would or even should accept an offer of £20m.
Lets be honest. Even if Berba had won world player of the year last season. 18-20m for a 30 year old with a year left on his deal is too good to turn down. He'd have to be a Giggs or a Scholes for you to turn it down.
This is essentially Berbatov's unique selling point, he can pull the magic out of the hat at any time, we've seen it so many times.
If we never replaced him....
Why does it matter so much if Berba's 30?
His game is hardly based on psychical attributes.
This is a lad who can keep going strong for around 4 more seasons.
His game is hardly based on psychical attributes.
This is a lad who can keep going strong for around 4 more seasons.
30 year old's with one year left on their deal don't really fetch much money in the market unless they are named Zidane. For that reason alone if we ever got an offer in excess of 18m I can't see it being turned down. Even though Berbatov is an asset to us as a club.
I see it another way, I'm afraid. Our weak midfield did him no favours whatsoever
I love the Berbs but, am really surprised that people wouldn't take the 20m in a heartbeat for him at this stage. I would love for him to retire here but, in the grand scheme of things he is not that important to the club or large parts of the fan base.
I do hope the rumours are completely unfounded but, if the report is true, I just don't see United not agreeing to it and then it will be up to Berbatov.
I do hope the rumours are completely unfounded but, if the report is true, I just don't see United not agreeing to it and then it will be up to Berbatov.
Depending on how or whether we replace Scholes, I actually think that Berbatov could come into his own at United, post-Scholes, if he does stay.
I sometimes thought Scholes and Berbatov tried to inhabit the same spaces when they were on the pitch at the same time the last couple of seasons, and with Scholes gone, Berbatov is one of the few players in the squad who offers that creativity and vision in the middle of the pitch.
Would be a hell of a loss to lose both Scholes and Berbatov at the same time.
I sometimes thought Scholes and Berbatov tried to inhabit the same spaces when they were on the pitch at the same time the last couple of seasons, and with Scholes gone, Berbatov is one of the few players in the squad who offers that creativity and vision in the middle of the pitch.
Would be a hell of a loss to lose both Scholes and Berbatov at the same time.
What stage though?
After he's had his best season at the club? He's been progressing step by step, I want to see what he comes up with this year.
Besides, how badly do we need the cash?
20 mil is excellent money for him at this stage of his career.
But why the feck should we weaken our squad?
But why the feck should we weaken our squad?
If he goes it won't be for the cash - United have never got rid of players who are still essential to the team and still coming up with the goods.
The reason to sell him would be that he's never totally fitted in - still inconsistent and Ferguson clearly loses belief in him at just the stage of the season you'd expect real United/Fergie players to be contributing most.
If SAF sold him I'd imagine it would be because he never quite looked the part or settled in, not for the money.
Very good money indeed...and I'd take it if its true...weaken our squad...I'm not so sure about that given the strikers we have.
Selling your top scorer amounts to weakening your squad in my opinion.
Macheda and Welbeck both remain unproven, selling him is definately weakening our squad.
Of course it would be weakening our squad, how can it be argued otherwise?
Ronaldo sale puts a damper on your argument. SAF and United will sell a player on depending on a multitude of factors and money can be a big factor when weighed against other things.
20m for any 30+ year old in today's market with 1 year left is a very good deal and there isn't a chance in hell that doesn't enter into United's thinking, including SAF who can then use the money to fund purchase of other players.
Regarding selling our top scorer. I consider Berba was a big factor for us last season but, this is a player whose influence dwindled as the season continued due to the emergence of Chicha and if you factor in the purchase of A. Young who can play a second striker role and Welbeck, we wouldn't significantly weaken if Berbatov does go.
Lets just hope this is all newpaper/rumour nonsense because this is a deal that completely works for United. <cross fingers it's not true>
Balancing the books time....
Ronaldo wanted to go, forcing United's hand. I'm pretty sure Berbs wants to stay.
Hypothetical. Say we sold Berba and bought Nasri with the money plus a few million more - would that weaken our squad?
Oh dear...
What about balancing the ball?
The fact of the matter is it's immaterial, he's not going. Yes, we could gain 20 million from a player who is over 30, it's a high figure, but then for what? If Berbatov had a shit season, and looked in decline, an argument could be put forward, decent money for a player on the way out. But that's clearly not the case. He was our top scorer, and one of our most consistent players in a time where we needed it most, alongside Nani. During that period, we couldn't rely on other strikers, Rooney was in awful form, and this was a season ago, not a decade. The season ended with Rooney being in outstanding form, and Hernandez accompanying him, to Fergie's own words of how the lad has had a freakish season and couldn't be dropped because of it. That's not to say Berbatov turned shit, but that another player was in better form, akin to Nani and Valencia at the time, substitute Nani's slow recovery from the horror tackle with Berbatov's lack of starts, you see a reason for their lapse. Not to mention taking on the brunt of responsibility in the first half of the season, where they were clear leaders.
Now what's to say we have the same partnership this season from Rooney and Hernandez? It's certainly not guaranteed, as much of a unbelievable success our little Mexican has been, he's been here a season, he's not ready to displace a player of Berbatov's calibre, not for a season. What's to say one of them don't suffer an injury? Or that they can maintain fitness being the two main strikers, something which neither of them did last season, none of our strikers did. You need rotation, further more, you need experience in that rotation. Owen's age and fitness hinder him at this point, as good as he is off the bench, there is a reason we weren't looking to him last season during Rooney's off period. He doesn't have the stamina. Leaving young Welbeck, who had a fantastic season on loan, and has looked even better at pre-season. It's completely ridiculous to say that Welbeck is at a level akin to Berbatovs, ability and consistency wise, but also his experience in football at this level, and with our current team. I have very high hopes for Danny, but he's still got to feel his way into the team, rather than assume a position of our last top scorer.
The point is, we don't have the quality left to replace Berbatov, and with a season like last, which showed we needed four top strikers, looking to get rid of one of the more prominent ones just doesn't make sense. We could do with 20 million, who couldn't, but we don't need it. We wouldn't have listed him, and we've categorically stated he won't be going anywhere, citing his last season and current influence in the team as reasons not too. Arguing that 20 million for him at 30 is irrelevant. Footballers peaks have extended, we know this, furthermore Berbatov's physical exertion, his style of play and role suggest to me he could play comfortably at this level for at least two more seasons. If not, let's just say the one, despite his quality and presence increasing as time as gone on. One more season, with an input like the prior, is worth more than 20 million, especially when we don't need that money, it's not going towards a deadline debt, or to fund another player, so in essence it's security money in the belief that Berbatov will not be able to offer us anything in the future. That goes against the statement released by the club today, by the statements from the manager, by the statements from the player and what we've all witnessed, he is not in decline, and as long as we extend his contract, his input will be there on offer.
Now what's to say we have the same partnership this season from Rooney and Hernandez? It's certainly not guaranteed, as much of a unbelievable success our little Mexican has been, he's been here a season, he's not ready to displace a player of Berbatov's calibre, not for a season. What's to say one of them don't suffer an injury? Or that they can maintain fitness being the two main strikers, something which neither of them did last season, none of our strikers did. You need rotation, further more, you need experience in that rotation. Owen's age and fitness hinder him at this point, as good as he is off the bench, there is a reason we weren't looking to him last season during Rooney's off period. He doesn't have the stamina. Leaving young Welbeck, who had a fantastic season on loan, and has looked even better at pre-season. It's completely ridiculous to say that Welbeck is at a level akin to Berbatovs, ability and consistency wise, but also his experience in football at this level, and with our current team. I have very high hopes for Danny, but he's still got to feel his way into the team, rather than assume a position of our last top scorer.
The point is, we don't have the quality left to replace Berbatov, and with a season like last, which showed we needed four top strikers, looking to get rid of one of the more prominent ones just doesn't make sense. We could do with 20 million, who couldn't, but we don't need it. We wouldn't have listed him, and we've categorically stated he won't be going anywhere, citing his last season and current influence in the team as reasons not too. Arguing that 20 million for him at 30 is irrelevant. Footballers peaks have extended, we know this, furthermore Berbatov's physical exertion, his style of play and role suggest to me he could play comfortably at this level for at least two more seasons. If not, let's just say the one, despite his quality and presence increasing as time as gone on. One more season, with an input like the prior, is worth more than 20 million, especially when we don't need that money, it's not going towards a deadline debt, or to fund another player, so in essence it's security money in the belief that Berbatov will not be able to offer us anything in the future. That goes against the statement released by the club today, by the statements from the manager, by the statements from the player and what we've all witnessed, he is not in decline, and as long as we extend his contract, his input will be there on offer.
Until the 31st August passes you can't be 100% sure of anything. Public statements from the manager can mean very little, as has been proven time and time again.
For Berbatov himself, I would be surprised if he wasn't at least partly unsettled given being omitted from the team for the key games. He's conceivably got 3-4 years left at the top level, and at United he's not going to be first choice.
The addition of Young also gives SAF another striking option as he played behind the striker the majority of the previous season, as well as the return of Welbeck and Macheda.
For Berbatov himself, I would be surprised if he wasn't at least partly unsettled given being omitted from the team for the key games. He's conceivably got 3-4 years left at the top level, and at United he's not going to be first choice.
The addition of Young also gives SAF another striking option as he played behind the striker the majority of the previous season, as well as the return of Welbeck and Macheda.
We've not really. Thats been his downfall, because people were expecting magic and we've only seen a few flashes of it in the last few seasons.
Right but, he was integral part of our team and in the end, the amount of money probably had a big part in us agreeing to the sale. For Berbatov it may not be that he wants to leave but, other factors such as age, length of contract left and the amount being offered probably means they'd (SAF, Gill) go for it.
Berbatov as good as he is/was last season, isn't integral to our team. He would probably play an important role but, for the coming season we do have options, that should he be sold, we won't probably go through the season wishing we hadn't. There is no guarantees that Rooney/Chicha will do as well but, then again there is no guarantee that Berbatov having to play "backup" will do really well when called upon. After all he did his best work when he was playing consistently and the one being relied upon the most.
Thank you for an absolutely excellent post, Hectic.
Your post says everything I wanted to say apart from the bit about those who'd be willing to sell Berbatov being economically naïve and having no souls.
Your post says everything I wanted to say apart from the bit about those who'd be willing to sell Berbatov being economically naïve and having no souls.
I didn't know Cameron & Clegg wanted to sell Berba?
No, the amount offered played no part whatsoever.
It was a bad piece of business for us however you look at it, but we had to do it given his attitude. He wanted away.
We had to sell.
You'd most likely be wrong though. 18m plus for a player like Berbatov would be just too good to turn down, even if the club still thinks highly of him. A player would have to be as important as a Rio, Vidic or Rooney are to the side currently for United to turn down such money.
We dont have to need it badly for it to make perfect financial sense. Personally I'd be gutted if we lost Berbatov for any reason. But 18m + for a 30 year old, who isn't your most important player, with a year left on his deal. Only a fool would turn it down if it was offered to be fair.
20 million for our 3rd choice striker though...and it would give Welbeck a real chance to prove himself. As much as I like berba I wouldn't be too disappointed if that sort of money was available to reinvest.
That 20 million could be reinvested though in areas that need it.
berbatov is a great player and is under-rated by a lot people over here. However it still makes sense selling him if there is an 18m + offer. As already mentioned over here, he s in the last year of his contract and he s 30 yrs old too (although at his pace he can play till 40..)
Another reason why i would seriously consider selling him is that despite his talent and goals, i feel that his partnership with rooney never really blossomed. It seems that the rooney-hernandez tandem is more effective .
So despite believing that berbatov is still class, for 18m i would seriously consider selling
Another reason why i would seriously consider selling him is that despite his talent and goals, i feel that his partnership with rooney never really blossomed. It seems that the rooney-hernandez tandem is more effective .
So despite believing that berbatov is still class, for 18m i would seriously consider selling
Berbatov post January was no more important to United then Owen. He scored 3 goals once he wasn't the crux of Uniteds play. Ferguson is not going to build a team around him again, not while he's still so inconsistent especially in the big games like cup finals. So it begs to question, why are we paying somebody 100k a week to sit on the bench and score 12-15 goals a season when we have a ready made striker who's forfeited massive amounts of game time, who'd score just as many in Owen? Owen was barely injured last season but was over looked because Berbatov was in great form, but Berbatov's form tailed off.
Regardless of the weather the season etc, Owen will score goals. It's in his nature as a goal scorer and it's not as if he's as injury prone and slow 'certainly faster then Berbatov' then certain United fans would like to think. In fact apart from the hamstring issue in 2010 'brought on by a stupid Wembely pitch', you'd chalk him down as having a normal players career thus far at United so so much for being injury prone.
Financially yes, United don't have to sell Berbatov. We're not short of money, but footballing wise, he doesn't work with United unless he is the main man. This is exactly the reason he was left out of the CL squad. Owen can fit straight into Uniteds setup but Berbatov has to be shoved in with a crow bar. We have Rooney that has been better at playing Berbatov's position behind the main the striker in the last year and he can play up top on his own, Owen and Hernandez who play that high line striker, and then we have Young, Nani, Cleverly, Giggs and Potentially Sniejder who can play in the whole as well. Then you you have 2 young strikers in Macheda and Welbeck to sit on the bench and you have a team that is chocked full, of whom fit more easily 'bar potentially sniejder' into the United system.
So why pay somebody 100k a week to sit on the bench and run down their contract?
Sure we'd be weakening our squad on paper, but football isn't played on paper hectic.
And a season is how long? Why would he be judged purely on the that period. What was Nani's input like in the second half compared to the first? Does that make what he did early on useless? What was Rooneys form like pre-January? You've down played his vital contribution to last season massively, I'm not sure we are going to see a middle ground to the value he offers the team.
Nani's form was fine until the tackle from Carra and Rooney would be far better judged on the form from the season before then last season. His value last season came as the main man for United. I'm not saying he didn't make a vital contribution, but he plays in a team that isn't short of talent. He is only one player out of a cast of 7 or 8 that play just as well as him for United 'i'm not saying they're better talents' If you want to see the best of Berbatov you need to build a team around him. Not going to happen and given how good Hernandez Rooney is, I doubt he'll get as much game time as he needs to get solid form.