Berbatov | Fulham player

Raoul said:
The two shouldn't be associated when evaluating a players contribution.
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Why not?

If you pay top bucks for an experienced international and PL player why is it so hard to expect him to play a vital role in the big matches? Or atleast start in them.

I seriously doubt SAF bought him with a view to being an 'option' player, something that he became at United. In that sense he has underachieved.

Fergie clearly paid the fee because he felt Berba could be the man who would unlock defenses in big matches.

Berba isn't a flop. But I don't think he's become the player he was brought here for. He isn't an outstanding success either.
 
If a player costs over 30 mill he should be at a level to be a first choice and start the big games. I expected Berb to be a key player up front paired with Rooney, and he wasn't. In retrospect I can see why he didn't fit in. Still, a disappointment that he hasn't been good enough to get picked for more games.
 
The strange thing is that hes easily good enough to be picked ahead of a Welbeck - Hernandez partnership, but SAF has still gone with the latter instead of him. I find the whole situation weird. Why suddenly dump a player who has had as good a goal ratio as any other striker we have bar Rooney, even when Rooney isnt playing..

I mean, even if we plan to sell him its a stupid decision not to play him at all. Now we wont get nearly as much as we would have gotten if he had been a fairly regular starter. No one will be paying much for a player so obviously not needed at the club.
 
I was never a fan and never felt he fit our style, but he had his moments and that hat-trick against Liverpool will be long remembered. I think we'll get about £6M for him, I just wonder if he'll go back to Germany or get himself a bit of that crazy Russian money that's on offer right now.
 
Brosstan said:
The strange thing is that hes easily good enough to be picked ahead of a Welbeck - Hernandez partnership, but SAF has still gone with the latter instead of him. I find the whole situation weird. Why suddenly dump a player who has had as good a goal ratio as any other striker we have bar Rooney, even when Rooney isnt playing..

I mean, even if we plan to sell him its a stupid decision not to play him at all. Now we wont get nearly as much as we would have gotten if he had been a fairly regular starter. No one will be paying much for a player so obviously not needed at the club.
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To develop Welbeck. I think he must see the potential of Danny to be worth the slight drop in quality we might get vs playing Berba.

But I agree we should play him more than he has played. The Europa League should be his competition the way the kids normally get the CC.
 
Brosstan said:
The strange thing is that hes easily good enough to be picked ahead of a Welbeck - Hernandez partnership, but SAF has still gone with the latter instead of him. I find the whole situation weird. Why suddenly dump a player who has had as good a goal ratio as any other striker we have bar Rooney, even when Rooney isnt playing..

I mean, even if we plan to sell him its a stupid decision not to play him at all. Now we wont get nearly as much as we would have gotten if he had been a fairly regular starter. No one will be paying much for a player so obviously not needed at the club.
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Because those two players have a future at United. It really is as simple as that. And when Berbatov is shit, he is horrendously shit.
 
marchi-91 said:
Because those two players have a future at United. It really is as simple as that. And when Berbatov is shit, he is horrendously shit.
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So is Hernandez. If we arent creating chances for him he can get lost in games, and too often he offers feck all in the build up play.

Gutted it never fully worked out for Berbatov, easily one of my favorite players. He had more than enough ability to be a success here, one of those strange things that he never fully succeeded given his ability. Will be sad if he goes IMO.
 
marchi-91 said:
Because those two players have a future at United. It really is as simple as that. And when Berbatov is shit, he is horrendously shit.
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Regardless of if he has a future here or not, he is here now and if he could be the difference maker, he should be played.

Chicha has been on a bit of a cold streak and Welbeck even more so. Berba has delivered when played this season and it makes no sense to not play him just because he might be off. Fergie probably knew Ronaldo was off but, still played him didn't he?

So it's not simple as because those 2 have a future here. We have a title to win and Fergie isn't going to play players just because they will be here longer than others that may end up leaving after the season.
 
johnmufc said:
For the Berbatov apologists, it is always everyone's fault but the Bulgarian himself.

Fergie has been absolutely right to play him so sparingly this season. Welbeck and Chicharito are simply better options.
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Sure. That is why he has out scored them both this season till recently with far less playing time.

If it was Berba having the goal drought Welbeck has been on in the league for example many would have had a fit. He just can't win with some people.
 
You'd think we could've realised that he wouldn't fit into our style of play before we signed him. Are there any other slow, lazy skillful players out there we think we could change.
 
Tottenhan will surely make a move considering they won't be keeping Adebayor around next season.
 
giggs-beckham said:
You'd think we could've realised that he wouldn't fit into our style of play before we signed him. Are there any other slow, lazy skillful players out there we think we could change.
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No problem hindsight cant solve, is there?
 
Sad to hear he's leaving but I'm not suprised and it's the best thing for him. I think he did better at times then he's credited for but he also could have done more at other times. I think it's a shame he didn't get more of a look in in this new team because I think with the midfield runners we now have they could have complimented his game well. The problem with berba wasn't that he was slow, it was that he liked to come deep and most the time he played tere weren't many people getting beyond him, that's changed this season but sadly he wasn't given much of a chance to show he could fit in. Still he was a bug part of our success last season and in happy that he came here even if it wasn't as successful as it could have been.
 
Had some brilliant moments for us, but not really enough of them over his time here. And as skilful as he is, I agree with those who think he just doesn't suit our team anymore.

He will always be remembered fondly for last season and that hat trick against Liverpool though!
 
The whole Berbatov situation is a bit strange. SAF probably has his reasons, but I do sympathize with Berbatov. He has been a model professional, and has contributed very well when called upon in the last two years.

In terms of skill and ability he is our second best striker IMO. It is a bit strange that he has been played so little.

Kudos to him for being a professional though, and good luck to him if he goes.
 
Dyslexic Untied said:
The whole Berbatov situation is a bit strange. SAF probably has his reasons, but I do sympathize with Berbatov. He has been a model professional, and has contributed very well when called upon in the last two years.

In terms of skill and ability he is our second best striker IMO. It is a bit strange that he has been played so little.

Kudos to him for being a professional though, and good luck to him if he goes.
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I think the last straw was the Newcastle Match when Rooney and Him played and we were thoroughly outplayed 3-0. Still a class player and as you said probably deserves to play first choice for any other club. Thanks for the memories.

Enjoy some Berberotica



However if he gets sold and Micheal Owen stays, then Fergie's judgement should be questioned.
 
"He could play tomorrow but I have good options in terms of front players with Javier Hernandez, Danny Welbeck and Wayne Rooney," said Ferguson.
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And that sums it up for Berbatov.Saf never really trusted him in Europe for whatever reason.
 
KM said:
However if he gets sold and Micheal Owen stays, then Fergie's judgement should be questioned.
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Both of them are at very different stages in their careers with respect to what they want. Owen is ready to be 5th choice, 4th choice isnt good enough for berba. They're also on very different wages.

Cant really compare the two.
 
EricaNo7 said:
This is old ground and I'm not biting. He may not fit into " our system " but he he fit in well enough to win games for us when Rooney was crap and having his hissy fits.
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So you would drop Rooney? I don't understand your argument.

finneh said:
Nowadays he is probably unlucky not to be playing more, but the same is happening to him than happened to some of our other players because of him when he first arrived. Fergie obviously sees developing Welbeck/Hernandez as a priority right now rather than giving him more games, just like he felt bedding his £31m signing in 08-10 was more important.
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Exactly

Brosstan said:
The strange thing is that hes easily good enough to be picked ahead of a Welbeck - Hernandez partnership, but SAF has still gone with the latter instead of him. I find the whole situation weird. Why suddenly dump a player who has had as good a goal ratio as any other striker we have bar Rooney, even when Rooney isnt playing..

I mean, even if we plan to sell him its a stupid decision not to play him at all. Now we wont get nearly as much as we would have gotten if he had been a fairly regular starter. No one will be paying much for a player so obviously not needed at the club.
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Ferguson is a long term thinker and always has been as a manager. He probably thinks giving Welbeck and Hernandez plenty of time together on the pitch this season, will save having to wait for them to gel as a partnership next season. SAF obviously sees Rooney, Hernandez and Welbeck as our 3 main strikers in the years to come. Remember, the boss also sees these players day in and day out in training. Maybe (not saying I believe this) Danny and Chicharito are working their ass off in training, trying to improve every aspect of their game to get their name on that team sheet, whereas Berba is strolling around, like he did in his first couple seasons at United, or just not putting in as much effort as the former 2 strikers. Wouldn't that dictate your starting XI?

He is building another great squad here, and if Berbatov is not in that plan, then there is no point giving him playing time when he could be playing his 2 young strikers who are in his future plans. It's as simple as that really, well at least in my opinion.

Berbatov was not a flop, but no one can honestly say they haven't been underwhelmed by his contributions to United.
 
Great player, but not a good it for our play. He slows our play up too much and does not stretch defences.

It reminds me of the Veron years.

Overall, I won't be disappointed to see him go.
 
unitedbhoy said:
Berbatov was not a flop, but no one can honestly say they haven't been underwhelmed by his contributions to United.
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I can honestly say I haven't. The man is one of the most techncially gifted footballers I've seen at Old Trafford, with possible the best first touch I've seen any player at United have. I've throughly enjoyed watching him play football in a United shirt, and even irregardless of that, and doubts I may have been 'underwhelmed' were abolished when he stuck a hattrick past the scousers... the fact that his goals won us number 19 was just the icing on the cake.
 
His time had come. He's still good enough to start at many really good teams.

The signing hasn't been a Shevchenko like disaster but it's been disappointing all the same. Him and United, in the end, just weren't the best fit. We tend to do well with pacey attackers capable of playing at a very high tempo and who are flexible. Berbatov is actually still better than Welbeck and Hernandez but just doesn't suit our system as well. Shame. He's had his good moments and I'm sure statistically his record is pretty but overall at 30+ million the signing has been a disappointment for sure. But the man hasn't. His attitude has been very good throughout.
 
I don't think it's hindsight to say that he was a bad fit, seeing it was said so much at the time of the signing.

Similarly the cost has to be taken into account when evaluating signings - could we have got more for our money? Undoubtedly, I think. When you look at our signings since and all the talk of not spending big money again on someone so close to 30, he was signed as a final piece to the jigsaw, something it was highly unlikely he was ever going to be. For the money we would have been much better signing an out-and-out striker, or value be damned, using it to actually buy a midfielder.

Berba's contributed a lot to the the side and been wonderful to watch but as a signing I still think it's been an expensive failure.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
I can honestly say I haven't. The man is one of the most techncially gifted footballers I've seen at Old Trafford, with possible the best first touch I've seen any player at United have. I've throughly enjoyed watching him play football in a United shirt, and even irregardless of that, and doubts I may have been 'underwhelmed' were abolished when he stuck a hattrick past the scousers... the fact that his goals won us number 19 was just the icing on the cake.
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Really... If someone played out his United career the day he signed you'd have been happy?
 
finneh said:
Really... If someone played out his United career the day he signed you'd have been happy?
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If someone told me that he would finish the top scorer in the league and for our club during a season where we won a record-breaking 19th title... yeah I'd be pretty happy with that.
 
Not a flop. His goals, awards and titles demonstrate that.

Not a waste of money. You spend 30 mil on an older player because you need experience and guaranteed productivity immediately, and Berbatov provided that. Having Berbatov in the team allowed us to take a chance on younger players like Hernandez and Welbeck to see how they did. If Rooney had forced an exit, then Berbatov would have been absolutely essential to the team. Sometimes you have to pay big money for the finished article. It is only in hindsight that Hernandez and Welbeck make Berbatov superfluous.

The bottom line is that Berbatov is simply not mobile enough for the way we should be playing. SAF did the same thing when he sold RVN and when he sold Beckham. Both times he was opting for a more fluid, pacier attack. You could argue cutting Keano loose had to do with his inability to go box to box towards the end as well.

I don't think we want Rooney playing up top in place of Hernandez or Welbeck anymore than we want Berbatov there. Horses for courses and all that. Berbatov doesn't want to be Rooney's backup which is perfectly respectable for a footballer, and a backup slot like that is the perfect opportunity for a young talent to be brought along in. Who SAF has in mind to take the space is anyone's guess, and Ashley Young is able to play there if we are unable to find a young attacker who is value for money over the summer.
 
Ferguson said:
You spend 30 mil on an older player because you need experience and guaranteed productivity immediately, and Berbatov provided that...It is only in hindsight that Hernandez and Welbeck make Berbatov superfluous.
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Agree with much of your post but not those bits. We paid that money and signed someone already settled in England for immediate production but it took Berbatov 2 seasons to give that. And already having Rooney made the signing superfluous, Hernandez and Welbeck coming in have only shown just how much an alternative type of striker is a better fit for our style of play. Arguments can be made that Berba should be playing more ahead of Rooney but it's not something I'd agree with.
 
LoveInTheAsylum said:
I don't think it's hindsight to say that he was a bad fit, seeing it was said so much at the time of the signing.

Similarly the cost has to be taken into account when evaluating signings - could we have got more for our money? Undoubtedly, I think. When you look at our signings since and all the talk of not spending big money again on someone so close to 30, he was signed as a final piece to the jigsaw, something it was highly unlikely he was ever going to be. For the money we would have been much better signing an out-and-out striker, or value be damned, using it to actually buy a midfielder.

Berba's contributed a lot to the the side and been wonderful to watch but as a signing I still think it's been an expensive failure.
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Really? Failure? He played a huge part in winning us the league! So much so that we may well not have won said league without him... how that can be classed as a "failure" is beyond me.
 
I'm sorry but there's no way it was a success of a signing. Fergie would admit to the same I'm sure. When you spend over 30 million you expect years of top quality service like we've seen from Rooney and Rio. Berbatov gave a tiny stretch of that in the first half of last season. Apart from that he's either been frustrating or out of the team.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
Really? Failure? He played a huge part in winning us the league! So much so that we may well not have won said league without him... how that can be classed as a "failure" is beyond me.
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For everything I wrote in the paragraph above the line you emboldened.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
Really? Failure? He played a huge part in winning us the league! So much so that we may well not have won said league without him... how that can be classed as a "failure" is beyond me.
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When you spend 30M on a player you are expecting more than one exeptional season, it's a long term investment. Look at palyers such as Rooney, Ferdinand, Ruud van Nistelrooy, David de Gea, Nani ... the have or will be expected to perform at the highest level for a number of years.

I'm no Berba basher by the way, love watching him play.
 
LoveInTheAsylum said:
For everything I wrote in the paragraph above the line you emboldened.
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Right... so he's a failure because he's not a midfielder?? Solid logic...

I really don't understand how a player that played a gigantic part in winning us the Premier fecking League can be deemed a failure, in any sense of the word.

Without him in our side may well not be reigning champions. Sure, you could hypothetically suggest that someone else would have scored his goals / or a different signing in his place would contribute the same amount... but frankly, it's not guarenteed, nor is it fact... what is however is that we had Berbatov, and he scored a shed-load of goals, including some incredibly crucial ones that helped bring number 19 home.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
I'm sorry but there's no way it was a success of a signing. Fergie would admit to the same I'm sure. When you spend over 30 million you expect years of top quality service like we've seen from Rooney and Rio. Berbatov gave a tiny stretch of that in the first half of last season. Apart from that he's either been frustrating or out of the team.
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Berba didn't get to choose his price, nor did he choose specifically how he was used over the past four years. Therefore to keep bringing up the money is a weak argument.

He did get off to a slow start but also contributed some fantastic creativity to our attack. He also won the Golden Boot (alongside Tevez) and was an integral part of two league winning sides. Despite his exile this year, he's managed to contribute a better goals to appearances rate than Welbeck or Hernandez. If he was a full time starter he would knock in about 25 goals. The fact that we choose not to play him and will possibly sell him, is in direct contradiction to his contributions, which have been quite good. So in short, Berba isn't a flop. Liam Miller, Djembax2, and Obertan were flops and putting Berbatov in that category is ridiculous to say the least.
 
mungy said:
When you spend 30M on a player you are expecting more than one exeptional season, it's a long term investment. Look at palyers such as Rooney, Ferdinand, Ruud van Nistelrooy, David de Gea, Nani ... the have or will be expected to perform at the highest level for a number of years.

I'm no Berba basher by the way, love watching him play.
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Those players were all much younger than Berba when we signed them. Also, Fergie's lack of using Berba isn't Berba's fault. The CL final being the prime example. You had a golden boot winner in the most competitive league in the world not being selected for his clubs biggest match. That speaks to a strategic choice that Fergie made, that at the end of the day can't be held against the player, who by all accounts had a career best year.
 
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