Berbatov | Fulham player

JustAFan said:
Not really Vidic might have prevented some of the defensive lapses, through his leadership. Since we already scored more goals in the league this season with very little use of Berbatov as compared to last season when he played quite a bit more. So really we were not lacking in the areas Berbatov might have made a difference in.


Though I suppose somebody is going to now tell us how much of a leader Berbatov is also.
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If you want to talk about specific areas. Berbatov bring calmness to the attack. He holds the ball better than anyone and makes better use of it then most. How many games did we throw away a lead?

You say our attack is fine yet we didn't win a single game where the opposition scored first.

Our better GD is because of a few more big wins. We had four 5-0 wins. Berba scored 4 in those games. The 8-2 win was a freak result countered but the 6-1 freak loss. Difference in those two teams was Rio/Jones and Fletcher/Welbeck.

Berbatov started 5 league games and came on as a sub 7 times. 517 minutes all in all. During those few minutes he managed to score 7 goals. 8 other goals were scored during his time on the pitch as well. So he's got a goal every 74 minutes whilst on the pitch and the team has a goal every 34 minutes (rounded down) which is better than the average this season.

I just don't agree at all that he doesn't fit into the team. That's such bullshit. We won the league with him as the main scorer. In the 4 years here he was used a lot in the CL two seasons and the other two he wasn't. The two seasons he was used we reached the final both times. The two season's he wasn't used we didn't. He was often sacrificed because of a system we don't have much success with.

He has a lot of variables that support his case. The short notion is simply this. On average, when Berbatov is playing, we play better than without him. And that's counting his first season which was a poor one.
 
JustAFan said:
Not really Vidic might have prevented some of the defensive lapses, through his leadership. Since we already scored more goals in the league this season with very little use of Berbatov as compared to last season when he played quite a bit more. So really we were not lacking in the areas Berbatov might have made a difference in.


Though I suppose somebody is going to now tell us how much of a leader Berbatov is also.
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Or an alternative view is having scored 11 goals more than last season with the leading scorer from 2010-11 not playing much, perhaps with him playing more often they would have increased the goal scoring as he had already proven he can score goals. The two strikers ahead of him, Hernandez and Welbeck, combined scored one goal less than Berbatov did the prior season. The Bulgarian himself averaged .58 goals per match and a goal every 80 minutes played in the league, the latter tops in the league.

That is basically the flip of your Vidic argument in regards to the fact United conceded fewer goals this season without Vidic.
 
Snow said:
If you want to talk about specific areas. Berbatov bring calmness to the attack. He holds the ball better than anyone and makes better use of it then most. How many games did we throw away a lead?

You say our attack is fine yet we didn't win a single game where the opposition scored first.

Our better GD is because of a few more big wins. We had four 5-0 wins. Berba scored 4 in those games. The 8-2 win was a freak result countered but the 6-1 freak loss. Difference in those two teams was Rio/Jones and Fletcher/Welbeck.

Berbatov started 5 league games and came on as a sub 7 times. 517 minutes all in all. During those few minutes he managed to score 7 goals. 8 other goals were scored during his time on the pitch as well. So he's got a goal every 74 minutes whilst on the pitch and the team has a goal every 34 minutes (rounded down) which is better than the average this season.

I just don't agree at all that he doesn't fit into the team. That's such bullshit. We won the league with him as the main scorer. In the 4 years here he was used a lot in the CL two seasons and the other two he wasn't. The two seasons he was used we reached the final both times. The two season's he wasn't used we didn't. He was often sacrificed because of a system we don't have much success with.

He has a lot of variables that support his case. The short notion is simply this. On average, when Berbatov is playing, we play better than without him. And that's counting his first season which was a poor one.
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the problems of throwing leads away was on defense, nothing Berbatov could have done about that. And you admit we had more big wins without him thus improving our goal difference, so that's a good thing right?

The truth is in the league the reason we did not win was defensive lapses and City's improvement, two things Berbatov would not have changed.

Berbatov is a very good player, but he is not the football god many people like to pretend he is either.

Of course you can't really prove we would have done any better this season without Berbatov all we can really look at is the stats and say, well statistically the club offensively, point wise and goal difference wise was better this season then last. How much of that was caused by not playing Berbatov? Who knows.
 
MrMarcello said:
Or an alternative view is having scored 11 goals more than last season with the leading scorer from 2010-11 not playing much, perhaps with him playing more often they would have increased the goal scoring as he had already proven he can score goals. The two strikers ahead of him, Hernandez and Welbeck, combined scored one goal less than Berbatov did the prior season. The Bulgarian himself averaged .58 goals per match and a goal every 80 minutes played in the league, the latter tops in the league.

That is basically the flip of your Vidic argument in regards to the fact United conceded fewer goals this season without Vidic.
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And the club proved it could keep on scoring without him at a better pace. Vidic's leadership might have proven influential, might not have, I have not really brought Vidic into the discussion, someone else did. The issue here is Berbatov, and all anyone can really say for 100% certainty is that we scored more goals and earned more points this season then we did last season.

But guess what it looks like he will be gone next year, and so be it, might as well get over it now.

I wonder where he will end up. Has to be Barcelona or RM right?
 
Classy on the pitch, classy off the pitch.

He definately admired our club. Gotta love that about him.

2 league titles, 2 CL finals and a scoring title for Berbatov. History may show that he was a success here but we all know it didn't work out as well as we all hoped.

Just didn't really suit us with the direction that Fergie is going.
 
I was merely pointing out your faulty logic.

Our lapses in defense could have been avoided with Berbatov in the side. Of course it could. More possession means less attacking opportunities for the opposition. Our problem in many games was that we were unimaginary with the ball, did little with it and just lost it. 40 of our goals came in 8 games. That leaves 49 goals for the other 30 games. In those games we had a bigger problem with keeping possession than in the 8 games which we demolished.

There are lots of different things we could have done better. One of them was playing Berbatov a bit more. That's all I'm saying. He played far too little. It's very hard to name a player that played less and the reason wasn't injuries.
 
Snow said:
I was merely pointing out your faulty logic.

Our lapses in defense could have been avoided with Berbatov in the side. Of course it could. More possession means less attacking opportunities for the opposition. Our problem in many games was that we were unimaginary with the ball, did little with it and just lost it. 40 of our goals came in 8 games. That leaves 49 goals for the other 30 games. In those games we had a bigger problem with keeping possession than in the 8 games which we demolished.

There are lots of different things we could have done better. One of them was playing Berbatov a bit more. That's all I'm saying. He played far too little. It's very hard to name a player that played less and the reason wasn't injuries.
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So scoring a bunch of goals in just a few games is a bad thing right?
 
JustAFan said:
So scoring a bunch of goals in just a few games is a bad thing right?
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Of course not. They explain the reason for our great GD. It's just not a normal game where we win like that and as such shouldn't be used as a basis for an argument to not include a striker.
 
JustAFan said:
So where does everyone think he will end up, obviously it has to be at one of the top 4 or 5 clubs in the world, so who will it be?
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Can't see it at all. We'll still want a pretty pound from the club and he's too old to make a difference at a top club. I think he goes to the Spurs level of play or back to Germany where he could get into a top 4 or 5 club in their league. With everyone after Dortmund players, you may see him there.

There's always MLS, Middle East, and China.
 
JustAFan said:
So where does everyone think he will end up, obviously it has to be at one of the top 4 or 5 clubs in the world, so who will it be?
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Definitely not one of the top 5 clubs in the world, personally I never thought he was ever good enough to become a key player at a team like united. His level was more spurs, or I could see him doing good in italy. Probably inter or juve because he wouldn't get anything more at Milan then he did here.
 
Can help but think he was somehow Veron mk2 for us. A classy player, but our style of play didn't suit his abilities. I was so excited when he joined, thought he would have a much bigger impact on our team, but it wasn't to be.

Good luck in your further career, Dimitar!
 
Snow said:
If you want to talk about specific areas. Berbatov bring calmness to the attack. He holds the ball better than anyone and makes better use of it then most. How many games did we throw away a lead?

You say our attack is fine yet we didn't win a single game where the opposition scored first.

Our better GD is because of a few more big wins. We had four 5-0 wins. Berba scored 4 in those games. The 8-2 win was a freak result countered but the 6-1 freak loss. Difference in those two teams was Rio/Jones and Fletcher/Welbeck.

Berbatov started 5 league games and came on as a sub 7 times. 517 minutes all in all. During those few minutes he managed to score 7 goals. 8 other goals were scored during his time on the pitch as well. So he's got a goal every 74 minutes whilst on the pitch and the team has a goal every 34 minutes (rounded down) which is better than the average this season.

I just don't agree at all that he doesn't fit into the team. That's such bullshit. We won the league with him as the main scorer. In the 4 years here he was used a lot in the CL two seasons and the other two he wasn't. The two seasons he was used we reached the final both times. The two season's he wasn't used we didn't. He was often sacrificed because of a system we don't have much success with.

He has a lot of variables that support his case. The short notion is simply this. On average, when Berbatov is playing, we play better than without him. And that's counting his first season which was a poor one.
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Pure delusion.

SAF is obviously clueless.

These Berba-lovers hey, you gotta admire how they stick with him to the end.
 
Kaiketsu_Zorro said:
Can help but think he was somehow Veron mk2 for us. A classy player, but our style of play didn't suit his abilities. I was so excited when he joined, thought he would have a much bigger impact on our team, but it wasn't to be.

Good luck in your further career, Dimitar!
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the point is that it was obvious from the start that neither would work for us.
 
Snow said:
If you want to talk about specific areas. Berbatov bring calmness to the attack. He holds the ball better than anyone and makes better use of it then most. How many games did we throw away a lead?

You say our attack is fine yet we didn't win a single game where the opposition scored first.

Our better GD is because of a few more big wins. We had four 5-0 wins. Berba scored 4 in those games. The 8-2 win was a freak result countered but the 6-1 freak loss. Difference in those two teams was Rio/Jones and Fletcher/Welbeck.

Berbatov started 5 league games and came on as a sub 7 times. 517 minutes all in all. During those few minutes he managed to score 7 goals. 8 other goals were scored during his time on the pitch as well. So he's got a goal every 74 minutes whilst on the pitch and the team has a goal every 34 minutes (rounded down) which is better than the average this season.

I just don't agree at all that he doesn't fit into the team. That's such bullshit. We won the league with him as the main scorer. In the 4 years here he was used a lot in the CL two seasons and the other two he wasn't. The two seasons he was used we reached the final both times. The two season's he wasn't used we didn't. He was often sacrificed because of a system we don't have much success with.

He has a lot of variables that support his case. The short notion is simply this. On average, when Berbatov is playing, we play better than without him. And that's counting his first season which was a poor one.
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That's incredible praise. Unfortunately it is also just about as wrong as an opinion can be.

If all you say is true then Fergie is obviously a fool, as are a number of top European managers that won't be fighting for his signature this Summer (the only team I've seen him linked with thus far is Galatasary, despite the very low transfer fee he would command).

He'll make a good signing for a good club or a great signing for a mediocre club.
 
juventus would be an ideal place for him, excellent replacement for del piero
 
We should have sold him last year to PSG, they would have paid us top wack - not sure how much we will get now for a player who is one year older and obviously surplus to requirements
 
Rood said:
We should have sold him last year to PSG, they would have paid us top wack - not sure how much we will get now for a player who is one year older and obviously surplus to requirements
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Agreed. We will get a very small fee now most likely.
 
And snow, it seems as if time has become your faulty logic. There's been times where Berba has been good and times where he was poor. Heck it was even the case last season but it seemed as if his goals overshadowed that.

I'm not sure where all these comments are coming from considering the fact that for a while, the general consensus was that he didn't quite fit our team and the mantra was 'he slows down our play'. The fact of the matter is, we lost the title. Maybe Berba would have helped us with our GD, maybe not.

If anything, football has shown us its unpredictability and you just never really know do you? Berba is similar to Roo as in you're not sure which berba you're going to see on a game by game basis. The key with Berba that some seem to be missing out is he was more likely to score in bunches in a game than scoring decisive goals for us. Maybe this is where people feel he could have been more involved in terms of GD but last time I checked, 4 goals should be enough to see off a team like Everton let alone any team. Him not being involved does nothing to dispel about us conceding silly goals or anything like that. If you need a reminder, think back to when we were up 3-1 away at Everton last season and we all know how that ended. What he showed at home games, he seemed unable to recreate on our away travels. I know that was one issue Fergie had with him as he wanted to see improvement in that area but it never seemed to materialize.

Also although it's great he was joint-top last season, the fact that we fail to look at that without any context bemuses me. It's like using a joker when the card game itself has no use for it. 'Ah ha! Berba was top scorer last season! Got you!'.....isn't there more to it than just that? What about when Wayne scored all those goals in 09/10 but people were complaining that we still weren't using him correctly? So surely that means that it's more than just how many goals you score. Berba had his best season for us last year and it still wasnt enough to keep Hernandez out of the team who scored some decisive goals for us.

It would have been nice to see him more involved and have a more vital role but hindsight is 20/20. It's either here nor there. What's done is done. Will we even be worrying about all this next season?
 
EricaNo7 said:
:lol:

I know I go a bit over the top, I just feel he's been very badly treated. And if he'd been used more he'd have helped our goal difference at the very least
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Hopefully but I mean come on Erica. You know you adore him.

images


Just look at that face. You know you cant say no.
 
Rood said:
We should have sold him last year to PSG, they would have paid us top wack - not sure how much we will get now for a player who is one year older and obviously surplus to requirements
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Could it be the case that Berba refused to go there? That would explain how our lead topscorer and suddenly ended up 4th choice striker in less then few months.
 
devilish said:
Could it be the case that Berba refused to go there? That would explain how our lead topscorer and suddenly ended up 4th choice striker in less then few months.
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I always assumed that Fergie wanted him gone last summer and that he refused to go - however there have been comments from PSG, Berba and Fergie which suggest that was not the case.
 
davisjw said:
Can't see it at all. We'll still want a pretty pound from the club and he's too old to make a difference at a top club. I think he goes to the Spurs level of play or back to Germany where he could get into a top 4 or 5 club in their league. With everyone after Dortmund players, you may see him there.

There's always MLS, Middle East, and China.
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Spurs could be looking for a new striker assuming Adebayor and Defoe are out. Would he return/would they want him back?

Berbatov spraying passes to the likes of Bale, Lennon and Saha would be tasty.
 
Not really sure Spurs would want him back after he spent a year sulking in their shirt. Would do a good job for them though
 
Ekeke said:
Not really sure Spurs would want him back after he spent a year sulking in their shirt. Would do a good job for them though
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He hasn't been sulking for them. He's scored several goals and been one of their key players.
 
Rood said:
We should have sold him last year to PSG, they would have paid us top wack - not sure how much we will get now for a player who is one year older and obviously surplus to requirements
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Yep. I was sure he'd leave after being omitted from the squad in the CL final. If ever the writing was on the wall..

MEN quotes him today as saying that he met with Fergie and was assured there was a place for him. They met several times and he received similar assurances, but always stayed on the bench. Eventually he stopped going to these meetings because: 'I have dignity'.
 
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