You can't just assume he hasn't settled, for all we know, this is what he'll be like for the rest of his time here.
Berbatov | Fulham player
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
You can't just assume he hasn't settled, for all we know, this is what he'll be like for the rest of his time here.
Yeah, that's fair enough.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by being a bit too settled down?
He is a player that bases his game around having understandings with players, and having runners off him. Rooney and Ronaldo are intelligent enough to develop an understanding with him, and they're very adept at making runs in behind the defence.
I still think it'll click somewhere down the line, and I'm not going to criticise him as heavily as others until he has a full pre-season with us.
If he's still as average then, then we'll have a problem. Right now I think he's only part of the reason of us doing so relatively averagely going forward this season, not the main reason.
I still think Scholes has been a big miss this season and I still think we'll have a very, very tough job replacing him. If we don't do it well then I think we'll struggle, because he's still been key to a lot of our best work going forward over the last two years.
Obviously Ronaldo being injured and massively out of form, Anderson, Tevez and Nani being out of form/not in the team hasn't helped either.
The former's considerably more likely than the former, though. So if we're assuming either of the two, it'll be the former.
Unless you just want to be massively over-critical.
Nah, you're talking as much bollocks now as you have been all season. Two or three bad games on the trot doesn't change anything.
That's what's so frustrating about this place.
Caftards will always have their favourites and their whipping boys. This applies to every single player in the squad who either isn't having an absolutely exceptional season or who isn't as outrageously naturally talented as, say, Rooney or Ronaldo (i.e. everyone apart from mayber two or three players)
When their favourite has a few good games (or even just a single good game i.e. Tevez vs Fulham) the fan-boys come crawling out of the woodwork saying how they've been saying all along that this player is brilliant (having kept their heads down when the same player had a dodgy spell) Conversely, when their whipping boy goes through a lean spell all the haters start trumpeting about how they've said he wasn't good enough all along (despite staying shut the feck up when he had a decent spell earlier on in the season) It's knee-jerk, childish bollox and it makes it very hard to have any sort of sensible discussion on here.
Berbatov hasn't had a fantastic debut season. He started slowly and hasn't hit a really sustained run of form. He hasn't been helped by playing with some niggling injuries and the fact that he's only rarely played a run of games with the same strike partner. He has been very good in patches and is clearly a very talented player. His languid style means he gets accused of being more lazy than he actually is (all the stats indicate that he does a lot of good work, defensively) and it also means he gets singled out, individually, when the team as a whole is having a shocker. He also has this price-tag hanging over his head, thanks to Levy playing hard-ball and Citeh's oil billions coming out of leftfield.
All of which means he ends up on many more "whipping boy" lists than he does on "favourites" and every bad performance ends up getting scrutinised in forensic detail, with loads of spackers trying to tell everyone that they've been saying he's useless all along.
The fact is, he is obviously a very good player and he has played a big part in what could still turn out to be an exceptional season. Obviously, he has had good games and bad games, just like every other player in our squad (apart from, maybe, Rooney and - up until 2 weeks ago - Vidic) and his debut season could have gone better. It's mental to write him off though and I have every confidence that the best of Berbatov is yet to come.
Sorry.
The former's considerably more likely than the latter.
It was a mistake, no need to go all
about it.Good post and I agree with all of it. Would just like to add that people also need to brace themselves for Berba not making it. I don't think he is sure shot to be a success.
Sorry.
The former's considerably more likely than the latter.
It was a mistake, no need to go all
I know, I'm only pissing about.
It is more likely, but still, not worth pointing out.
It's not a plane crash. If he doesn't make it the haters will say 'I told you so' and we'll wonder if they're always premature.
You lot are always fecking moaning about something or someone, does my fecking head in.
Berbatov's a fecking great player. You are all fecking idiots.
It's always moan, moan, fecking moan.
Agreed
So why is this? It can't be that old chestnut "it's because United are a step up from Spurs that he can't make", because in the league every team plays in exactly the same fixtures as every other team. And at MUFC he's surrounded by generally better players than he was at Spurs, which should in theory make it even easier for Berbatov to play well.
I haven't seen many of the games in which Berbatov has played, so I'm taking on faith his 'lack of performance' as cited in this thread. But assuming the criticisms are warranted then here's a few questions:
Is Fergie using him in the right way? Does he have a strike partner that suits his style (as Keane clearly did at Spurs)? Is the team formation/tactics set up in way that complements his way of playing? Is he in and out of the starting XI too much - i.e too much chopping and changing?
He's surrounded by different players every week and most of them have been so inconsistent that they could be classed as two different players. It isn't the best situation to be forming new partnerships in. Rooney the exception is also the player that Berbatov looks on the same wavelength as. Could all be coincidence, time will tell.
Yes. Yes. Possibly not. No.
We've done everything possible to help him bed into the team. Hes the first choice striker it seems at the moment, he drops deep like he likes to barring a couple of games, he plays the game at his own pace just like hes used but hes simply not producing. I cant see what more Fergie can do, he just has to decide to turn up now, he able.
For various different reason, Rooney and Berbatov haven't played enough games together this season. I think they can form an excellent partnership, something that looked like happening earlier this season, until Rooney tore his hamstring.
I don't think Berbatov and Tevez are nearly as well matched but even they managed to look good together, after playing a run of games when Rooney was out.
This is true. Like I said before excellent player wrong fitting
What the feck is "wrong fitting"?
Agreed, but I was refering also to the linkup between him and midfield, at the moment the first option seems to be to go through Ronaldo, I'd expect once he's had more time with a settled (and on form) midfield that they'll know better where and how to use him in creating attacks and he'll know where they'll be expecting him to be.
What the feck is "wrong fitting"?
A less than good fit
Yeah, true that.
To be honest, I think the whole team is struggling due to the lack of a settled and on-form midfield.
Giggs has been sensational and has been at the heart of some of our best football this season but the fact he only ever features intermittantly has really de-stabilised things. Add to this Paul Scholes's waning powers (combined with long-term injury) and Anderson's second season syndrome (combined with long-term injury) and our midfield has never really got into any sort of a groove.
Carrick and Fletcher are clearly our best midfield pairing, as proven by the fact that our record with them in midfield is superb (can't remember the exact stats but we've basically won shit-loads of games, scored a load of goals and conceded very few) but they haven't been given enough games together IMO. If they can start the next 5 or 6 league games on the trot I think we'll see a vastly improved team performance, with individual players like Berbatov and Ronaldo looking much more potent.
As it stands, the stuttering midfield means that hard-working players like Rooney and Tevez are generally escaping criticism, while the likes of Berbatov and Ronaldo are getting slated, despite the fact that the whole team is clearly a good bit short of it's fluent best.
We'll be fine, but need to start picking a more settled team.
If we really must apportion any blame about Fulham, then IMO it should go Fergusons way. We know all about Berbatov's shortcomings, so playing him up top without a real partner doesn't work, never has worked, and never will work.
Then waiting until half-time to bring in Rooneys energy was a big mistake also. Possibly a mistake that cost us points.
Re: Berbatov. Buying him was a mistake. I said it before we signed him, and this season for him is going exactly how every other one will as long as he is at the club. Moments of brilliance mixed in with a hell of a lot of frustrating performances. Wrong player for this team.
Then waiting until half-time to bring in Rooneys energy was a big mistake also. Possibly a mistake that cost us points.
Re: Berbatov. Buying him was a mistake. I said it before we signed him, and this season for him is going exactly how every other one will as long as he is at the club. Moments of brilliance mixed in with a hell of a lot of frustrating performances. Wrong player for this team.
Unfortunately that'd be a step closer to the end of Giggs and Scholes.
I thought it worked quite well at the San Siro.
We played well at the San Siro, but he wasn't the dominant factor in this. He was fairly quiet out there.
For those who say Berbatov is a class player, yes I agree.
So when is he going to produce it consistently? The evidence has been there for those who have watched all the matches this season.
It's never guaranteed that a class player will fit into United.
And against Fulham, I couldn't believe that neither Rooney nor Tevez started. Ok, play Berbatov, but never play him on his own. Big mistake by the Boss, but hopefully it'll come to nothing.
We did play poorly against Fulham generally but I still think Berbatov has been disappointing. And the fee's got nothing to do with it.
Let's see how Tevez does vs Villa.
So when is he going to produce it consistently? The evidence has been there for those who have watched all the matches this season.
It's never guaranteed that a class player will fit into United.
And against Fulham, I couldn't believe that neither Rooney nor Tevez started. Ok, play Berbatov, but never play him on his own. Big mistake by the Boss, but hopefully it'll come to nothing.
We did play poorly against Fulham generally but I still think Berbatov has been disappointing. And the fee's got nothing to do with it.
Let's see how Tevez does vs Villa.
He wasn't the dominant factor, but the system still worked all things considered, I thought.
When a team passes and moves as well as we did that night, it doesn't really matter what system you're playing. You're going to dominate.
I think people develop this idea of the player Berbatov could become if every thing clicked for him. 'Give him time' 'let him settle'. Its been said so many times.
I just don't buy that a player who is supposed to be this special should need that much time to integrate himself into a very good, very successful team. Look who he is playing alongside. It should be easy.
People are starting to realise what he is, and as predicted they don't like it. He just isn't a Manchester United player for me. Never will be.
Yes it worked by others carrying him
Vidic and Evra are special, but they took their time to settle in. Same for Rio.
I'm keeping the faith in him.
You could say that about a lot of players who've been quality for United over the years. One of whom has 10 league medals.
We're still in all competitions, he can't be doing that badly.
Good for you...
Need I remind you that vidic and evra both came from abroad half-way through a season...didn't speak the language, so obviously they took time. Rio took his time as well but defenders don't usually peak until their late twenties, and Rio's performances were not poorer than the ones he put in at Leeds. It was a case of biding our time with him.
Berbatov has not even touched his Spurs performances, which considering he's playing for a far more dominant team with better players makes it pretty pathetic. Yes, there is a possibility that he'll step up but he's largely a fair-weather player who hides more often than not. So far I have yet to see evidence to the contrary.
It's pretty hard for a single player to knock out his whole team out of a competition though
Do you not think though that he's the sort of player who would sulk and cause masses of problems if he's left warming the bench up ? Whether it's Spurs or United, some people just won't change. They refuse to, and he strikes me as that sort of player. United knew who they were in for when they approached him