"Blackface" Discussion

[JPRouve]

This just shows that the historical background of white people painting their faces black in Spain is mostly a positive holiday tradition.

Spain in general don't care one bit about PC and especially other countries standards.

No, it shows that because of different historical context in Europe people are unapologetic when it comes to historical ridicule and casual racism. While we can appreciate that historical difference and understand that that context means that there isn't a strong taboo, it doesn't change the fact. What is funny about black skin? What is it that makes it a positive holiday tradition or a good laugh?

You don't have to be offended, to realize how stupid and wrong it is.

 

[Lord SInister]

Ignorance is not a good fallback position, never has been and never will be. Unfortunately, this sort of thing happens more often than many would care to admit and always people of color are on the receiving end of the insensitivity

But you cannot crucify someone because of it. I think this kind of witch hunting is counter productive.

 

[saivet]

No, it shows that because of different historical context in Europe people are unapologetic when it comes to historical ridicule and casual racism. While we can appreciate that historical difference and understand that that context means that there isn't a strong taboo, it doesn't change the fact. What is funny about black skin? What is it, that makes is a positive holiday tradition or a good laugh?

You don't have to be offended, to realize how stupid and wrong it is.

The "we've always done it, it's tradition rhetoric" I find baffling. As if it means you can't move on

 

[FlawlessThaw]

But you cannot crucify someone because of it. I think this kind of witch hunting is counter productive.

Nah I don’t think Griezmann will get crucified for this. It still needs to be called out though as being utterly wrong regardless of intent, just so the real racist idiots don’t get any ideas.

 

[VP]

I don't know if this is racist or offensive or just stupid - it's clearly a complicated, delicate issue.

Given this, I've no idea how white people feel they can deem what's offensive or not - and that to with such authority.

 

[FCBarca]

But you cannot crucify someone because of it. I think this kind of witch hunting is counter productive.

If I see the player hanging from a cross I’d concur but defending it before succumbing to public pressure means he should accept the backlash, show some contrition and demonstrate some understanding of the ignorance he was guilty of. Plus, don’t parade all your black friends to defend your character

 

[stevoc]

ill assume youre white(or not black), now because of that you cant understand how it feels for a black man or woman (im not black but i was raised in a predominantly black neighborhood so most of my friends were black) to see this sort of shit. Its background and what it stands for is literally racism and racist stereotyping. Ive seen my mates groan at the TV just at the sight of a white person "impersonating" blacks with accents as a comedy sketch, even though they sound nothing like it. It reinforces negative stereotypes.

Or if youre irish and he, as a french man, went as a lephrechaun catholic alcoholic IRA terrorist with potatoes, you would be offended

That would be some costume to pull off to be fair.

Actually i've lived in Belfast for a short while and any mention of potato/paddy/lephrechaun really pissed off my republican mates, the protestants not so much

i dont think many people minded tropic thunder because the character did get ridiculed a lot for it and they made sure you knew he was a parody of a parody

People here can be uptight and quick to get offended. But i have to admit someone getting offended by the word potato is a new one for me. Also not sure in what context the words paddy (as an insult) or leprechaun come up in a conversation with a group of irish republicans in Belfast.

 

[Epicurean]

Or most likely when people of colour were given more of a say in the media.

I am a people of color as many others are and it’s funny how I mostly hear and see white people raging over this. White people telling people of color what to be offended about. Seems to me a little patronizing and racist in itself.

History is full of racism, domination and other abysmal events. It’s not exclusive to the white male, Chinese can be overtly racist towards other Asian minorities, towards blacks and yes even towards white people. And so can every other ethnicity be racist. Over the course of history many different cultures have dominated others at some point in time and oppressed and ruled with force and prejudice.

If a guy dresses up like a black nba player, why not paint yourself black then? If a black man would want to dress up like Tom cruise, why not paint himself white? Just for kicks and giggles. Having a little fun.

Reminds me of a Die Antwoord video clip shot inside of South Africa. The white girl painted black and the black guy wearing a white hood and white clothes. Just, because. Of course fake outrage everywhere over that as well, but they stood their ground, black and white together.

This age and day we live in now is the age and day of repression of thought. Institutionalized victimization seems par de course.

 

[kouroux]

I am a people of color as many others are and it’s funny how I mostly hear and see white people raging over this. White people telling people of color what to be offended about. Seems to me a little patronizing and racist in itself.

History is full of racism, domination and other abysmal events. It’s not exclusive to the white male, Chinese can be overtly racist towards other Asian minorities, towards blacks and yes even towards white people. And so can every other ethnicity be racist. Over the course of history many different cultures have dominated others at some point in time and oppressed and ruled with force and prejudice.

If a guy dresses up like a black nba player, why not paint yourself black then? If a black man would want to dress up like Tom cruise, why not paint himself white? Just for kicks and giggles. Having a little fun.

Reminds me of a Die Antwoord video clip shot inside of South Africa. The white girl painted black and the black guy wearing a white hood and white clothes. Just, because. Of course fake outrage everywhere over that as well, but they stood their ground, black and white together.

This age and day we live in now is the age and day of repression of thought. Institutionalized victimization seems par de course.

Very well said.

 

[POF]

It is sheer ignorance i can only equate people trying to defend this as either trolling or they really are daily mail brexit voting Trump loving bigots

Threads like this (along with the Lukaku's cock one), I usually steer well clear of. But when the question is asked why people defend acts like this then posts like this should explain it. Apparently, if you don't find it offensive you're a racist bigot. That is actual bigotry.

 

[BBRBB]

By Blackface isn't a thing you mean that the term doesn't exist which is true or that the shows didn't exist, because that's wrong, they mainly disappeared after the 30s but we still got something like that and he was still criticized last week:

I've read some criticism about Leeb's show last week. Interestingly none of the arguments were about makeup. There's simply nothing in French culture or collective conscience about how when or where putting makeup to change your skin color could be racist or not.

On the other hand many ways about how racial issues are handled in Anglo-Saxon countries would be considered racist in France. Different cultures different standards.

 

[2 man midfield]

I am a people of color as many others are and it’s funny how I mostly hear and see white people raging over this. White people telling people of color what to be offended about. Seems to me a little patronizing and racist in itself.

History is full of racism, domination and other abysmal events. It’s not exclusive to the white male, Chinese can be overtly racist towards other Asian minorities, towards blacks and yes even towards white people. And so can every other ethnicity be racist. Over the course of history many different cultures have dominated others at some point in time and oppressed and ruled with force and prejudice.

If a guy dresses up like a black nba player, why not paint yourself black then? If a black man would want to dress up like Tom cruise, why not paint himself white? Just for kicks and giggles. Having a little fun.

Reminds me of a Die Antwoord video clip shot inside of South Africa. The white girl painted black and the black guy wearing a white hood and white clothes. Just, because. Of course fake outrage everywhere over that as well, but they stood their ground, black and white together.

This age and day we live in now is the age and day of repression of thought. Institutionalized victimization seems par de course.

I think this is a good point. I said something similar in the Lukaku's big dick thread. Everyone jumped straight to outrage based on what they thought was offensive to black people. The second someone black or Lukaku himself said it was offensive, that's when you own up and apologise for being a dick, but until such time it seems a little...I don't know, contrived?

 

[JPRouve]

I've read some criticism about Leeb's show last week. Interestingly none of the arguments were about makeup. There's simply nothing in French culture or collective conscience about how when or where putting makeup to change your skin color could be racist or not.

On the other hand many ways about how racial issues are handled in Anglo-Saxon countries would be considered racist in France. Different cultures different standards.

And the problem isn't make up, you either start to read the thread and think a little bit or don't comment. Also the outfit is an American one, the Harlem Globetrotters are part of the US history using blackface in that context is really stupid. Like Kouroux, I'm not offended because it's way too stupid but people really need to start using their brains.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

I am a people of color as many others are and it’s funny how I mostly hear and see white people raging over this. White people telling people of color what to be offended about. Seems to me a little patronizing and racist in itself.

I’m also a person of colour and yeah there is no doubt it can go overboard. I felt the reaction to chant about Lukaku’s dick was a prime example for that. However I’d much rather white people do get offended rather than ignore it completely. And yes it isn’t just white snowflakes who find blackface distasteful.

 

[kouroux]

I think this is a good point. I said something similar in the Lukaku's big dick thread. Everyone jumped straight to outrage based on what they thought was offensive to black people. The second someone black or Lukaku himself said it was offensive, that's when you own up and apologise for being a dick, but until such time it seems a little...I don't know, contrived?

And black people can also be divisive about these things. There are no set rules.

 

[Halftrack]

I think this is a good point. I said something similar in the Lukaku's big dick thread. Everyone jumped straight to outrage based on what they thought was offensive to black people. The second someone black or Lukaku himself said it was offensive, that's when you own up and apologise for being a dick, but until such time it seems a little...I don't know, contrived?

I don't think what Griezmann did was particularly offensive, but I'm white as snow and live inside the Arctic circle. I'm not offended or outraged, and I doubt many are. More baffled at how tone-deaf it is. I also think things like this should be met with criticism, if only to prevent idiots from getting any ideas. Same as with stereotyping: Even when it's positive, it helps justify and reinforce something negative.

 

[lsd]

I am a people of color as many others are and it’s funny how I mostly hear and see white people raging over this. White people telling people of color what to be offended about. Seems to me a little patronizing and racist in itself.

History is full of racism, domination and other abysmal events. It’s not exclusive to the white male, Chinese can be overtly racist towards other Asian minorities, towards blacks and yes even towards white people. And so can every other ethnicity be racist. Over the course of history many different cultures have dominated others at some point in time and oppressed and ruled with force and prejudice.

If a guy dresses up like a black nba player, why not paint yourself black then? If a black man would want to dress up like Tom cruise, why not paint himself white? Just for kicks and giggles. Having a little fun.

Reminds me of a Die Antwoord video clip shot inside of South Africa. The white girl painted black and the black guy wearing a white hood and white clothes. Just, because. Of course fake outrage everywhere over that as well, but they stood their ground, black and white together.

This age and day we live in now is the age and day of repression of thought. Institutionalized victimization seems par de course.

Dont quite get your point,just because your not offended doesnt mean noone else is .

Someone earlier said irish people would laugh at him if he dressed up in irish stereotypes .

Im sure someone might find it funny and not be offended but im also certain most irish people would be annoyed with that

 

[podurban2]

This just shows that the historical background of white people painting their faces black in Spain is mostly a positive holiday tradition.

Spain in general don't care one bit about PC and especially other countries standards.

I’m not surprised Spain has a racism problem.

 

[RedRoach]

No, it shows that because of different historical context in Europe people are unapologetic when it comes to historical ridicule and casual racism. While we can appreciate that historical difference and understand that that context means that there isn't a strong taboo, it doesn't change the fact. What is funny about black skin? What is it that makes it a positive holiday tradition or a good laugh?

You don't have to be offended, to realize how stupid and wrong it is.

What I would say is that Spain, relative to England, France etc. is as a European country, relatively multiculturally naive. Only in recent years has there been an influx of different cultures and races, thus these traditional holidays which were once considered acceptable are becoming more problematic now as folks in Spain are realising the offence it causes. That doesn't excuse it and doesn't make it right, but every country has to go through a learning and adaptive phase to becoming a true multi cultural nation.

I also would point out that I don't believe the usage of a painted black person in traditional holidays like Reyes (where one of the kings who brings the gifts is traditionally of colour) is for amusement or humour in Spain. It is more that to make the character unique and special for children. What I mean is it isn't done with malice, bad intent or ridicule, but of course it is being acknowledged that is inappropriate nowadays.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

I think this is a good point. I said something similar in the Lukaku's big dick thread. Everyone jumped straight to outrage based on what they thought was offensive to black people. The second someone black or Lukaku himself said it was offensive, that's when you own up and apologise for being a dick, but until such time it seems a little...I don't know, contrived?

Didn’t Lukaku ask the fans to stop? In any case, it is true that it can seem contrived, it felt that way with the chant at the time.

 

[LuisNaniencia]

I don't know if this is racist or offensive or just stupid - it's clearly a complicated, delicate issue.

Given this, I've no idea how white people feel they can deem what's offensive or not - and that to with such authority.

It's offensive and stupid, but certainly not intentionally so.

As regards the bolded line, surely a little common sense could see the potential offence in something like this?

 

[2 man midfield]

Didn’t Lukaku ask the fans to stop? In any case, it is true that it can seem contrived, it felt that way with the chant at the time.

Pretty much, I think his hands were a bit tied though. He was in great form at a new club with the fans behind them, and seemed to not want to ruffle feathers. Seemed pretty clear he didn't like the chant though, and wanted the fans to focus on his actual playing ability.

 

[Vato]

We're heading towards a future where a white person will only be able to dress up as a white character, an indian (native american) as an indian character, a black person as a black character and so on.

That doesn't seem racist at all... nope.

What a fantastic world it will be. Let's ban emotions and censor humor too while we're at it. I wonder which topics comedians will have left to joke about in 10 years time.

 

[BBRBB]

And the problem isn't make up, you either start to read the thread and think a little bit or don't comment. Also the outfit is an American one, the Harlem Globetrotters are part of the US history using blackface in that context is really stupid. Like Kouroux, I'm not offended because it's way too stupid but people really need to start using their brains.

So is it time for censorship ?

Sorry to bring to the thread sensible arguments about how Griezmann could ignore the controversial potential of his costume and a parallel POV about how this affair showcases the oppressive nature of America imposing their cultural standards.

My last post in this thread since disturbing the circlejerk any longer would be a shame.

 

[stu_1992]

It's clearly not intentionally racist so say he's that is overkill, but it's definitely incredibly stupid. He seems like an idiot though based on this incident and past behavior.

 

[Kostur]

We're heading towards a future where a white person will only be able to dress up as a white character, an indian (native american) as an indian character, a black person as a black character and so on.

That doesn't seem racist at all... nope.

What a fantastic world it will be. Let's ban emotions and censor humor too while we're at it. I wonder which topics comedians will have left to joke about in 10 years time.

There're always topics that, albeit sensitive to some people too, don't go well with the mainstream so you can always take a shit on them and you'll be even more so encouraged to do so.

 

[saivet]

We're heading towards a future where a white person will only be able to dress up as a white character, an indian (native american) as an indian character, a black person as a black character and so on.

That doesn't seem racist at all... nope.

What a fantastic world it will be. Let's ban emotions and censor humor too while we're at it. I wonder which topics comedians will have left to joke about in 10 years time.

 

[podurban2]

So is it time for censorship ?

Sorry to bring to the thread sensible arguments about how Griezmann could ignore the controversial potential of his costume and a parallel POV about how this affair showcases the oppressive nature of America imposing their cultural standards.

My last post in this thread since disturbing the circlejerk any longer would be a shame.

Being French, a nation that owned black slaves up up until mid 19th century, maybe one should think twice before running around in a black face not thinking it’s inappropriate. Perhaps the US have just surpassed the French in terms of enlightenment.

 

[crossy1686]

Didn't Smalling dress up as a "suicide bomber" a few years back? Or was it someone else?

Either way, footballers are stupid, very stupid people.

He dressed up as a 'Jäger Bomber', so a suicide bomber that had a bomb made of Jäger and Red Bull cans on his chest.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

He dressed up as a 'Jäger Bomber', so a suicide bomber that had a bomb made of Jäger and Red Bull cans on his chest.

There was the time that Prince Harry dressed as a Nazi for fancy dress which caused controversy too.

 

[walkinhop]

I'm gonna avoid the racism issue as it's been covered from every single angle.

The "ignorance" part peeked my interest. I've noticed some people think that the rest of the world needs to know and care about their history, needs to abide by their rules. At the same time, how much do these people know about the rest of the world and could they possible abide by everyone else's rules? One person can't possibly know each cultural aspect of all the societies out there. Sure, the US and some parts of Europe do have history of multiculturalism and probably should "know better" but plenty of people out there who mean no harm don't deserve to be called names.

 

[crossy1686]

There was the time that Prince Harry dressed as a Nazi for fancy dress which caused controversy too.

A guy at my work got fired for doing that after pictures emerged.

 

[RedPed]

These kind of threads/topics always bring out the best and worst in people and gives an opportunity for the ignorant/idiotic to raise their stupid heads above the parapet!

 

[Lord SInister]

If I see the player hanging from a cross I’d concur but defending it before succumbing to public pressure means he should accept the backlash, show some contrition and demonstrate some understanding of the ignorance he was guilty of. Plus, don’t parade all your black friends to defend your character

Yes agree he should release a statement saying he is sorry if anyone found it offensive, but some people in this thread and social media are acting as if he has committed some crime and deserves to be called an idiot or bigot.

 

[2mufc0]

Yes agree he should release a statement saying he is sorry if anyone found it offensive, but some people in this thread and social media are acting as if he has committed some crime and deserves to be called an idiot or bigot.

He has already. Should be the end of it....

 

[Annihilate Now!]

We're heading towards a future where a white person will only be able to dress up as a white character, an indian (native american) as an indian character, a black person as a black character and so on.

That doesn't seem racist at all... nope.

What a fantastic world it will be. Let's ban emotions and censor humor too while we're at it. I wonder which topics comedians will have left to joke about in 10 years time.

Come on Vato, you're taking it a bit far...

As a man with brown skin, I have (successfully) dressed up in the past as Frodo Baggins, Jimi Hendrix, The Jamaican Bobsled Team, Captain Hammer and Optimus Prime. True one did require putting a blue box over my head, but still, there's a point there.

As a man above said, any decent outfit won't exactly require you to go in white face/black face/whatever face.

 

[villain]

From what I can see the only people of colour who don’t have a problem with this in this thread are @Epicurean and @kouroux
And I’m not sure if they’re black.

A few pages back, I and a few other black posters have outlined why his decision to paint his skin black is offensive - doesn’t mean I’m offended, but don’t wear my skin colour as if it’s a costume that you can wipe off.

I said a number of pages back that not every black person will find this offensive (newsflash black people are individual with our own unique thoughts and opinions. We are - wait for it - human) but just because there are black people who don’t have a problem with this, or you know a few black mates who whitened up, doesn’t make this incident not ignorant and offensive.

Why is that so difficult to understand?

 

[fishfingers15]

White people getting skin tan should be banned too. It causes skin cancer

 

[africanspur]

We're heading towards a future where a white person will only be able to dress up as a white character, an indian (native american) as an indian character, a black person as a black character and so on.

That doesn't seem racist at all... nope.

What a fantastic world it will be. Let's ban emotions and censor humor too while we're at it. I wonder which topics comedians will have left to joke about in 10 years time.

Really? People dress up as characters from other races all the time. You don't have to paint your face to make the costume look good.

I'm pretty sure most people are smart enough to see a guy in a harlem globetrotters costume, maybe even with an afro...and make the jump that he is dressed up as a harlem globetrotter. Not that difficult. There's no need to put black make up on.

If I'm going somewhere as a ninja warrior, I don't need to pin my eyes back either.

I always laugh as well (this but isn't at you) when I see things like those racial stereotypes/ problems etc don't exist in my country. Really? I must have missed when France and Spain became social utopias with no racism? Are people serious with this stuff?

As a few others have said, I'm not offended. There's far worse things in the world than a footballer in a stupid costume. Pretty silly from him though.

 

[podurban2]

From what I can see the only people of colour who don’t have a problem with this in this thread are @Epicurean and @kouroux
And I’m not sure if they’re black.

A few pages back, I and a few other black posters have outlined why his decision to paint his skin black is offensive - doesn’t mean I’m offended, but don’t wear my skin colour as if it’s a costume that you can wipe off.

I said a number of pages back that not every black person will find this offensive (newsflash black people are individual with our own unique thoughts and opinions. We are - wait for it - human) but just because there are black people who don’t have a problem with this, or you know a few black mates who whitened up, doesn’t make this incident not ignorant and offensive.

Why is that so difficult to understand?

It’s simple human psychology really. Some people don’t see the harm in the situation, but they don’t want to see themselves as being racist/ignorant. Instead they try to validate it.