Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

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Chorley1974 said:
Energy tariffs, AWD, do you want me to list them all, or just point you to the white papers?

We don't have control of our borders if we can't choose whom enters them, under what conditions.

Being bullied for wanting control of your own laws and immigration controls shouldn't be accepted.
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All we need now is a rousing chorus of Land of Hope and glory.

And energy prices have gone up since the Britex vote. So that is going well.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jul/12/fixed-rate-dual-fuel-energy-tariffs-brexit-uswitch

Yet had dropped by 25% prior to Britex. To a level about half what I pay in Australia for what it is worth.
 
JPRouve said:
Let's ignore the potential petiness, we need these industries, we have the potential workforce for these industries and they intend to ship them to mainland. It has to happen no matter what, the UK are a competitor now.
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We always were though, nothing has changed except we left a trade organisation and everyone in it seems to think it was our role to stay in it even if most people wanted to leave.

I don't get the vitriol, if it is a mistake then it is a mistake.
 
Chorley1974 said:
Energy tariffs, AWD, do you want me to list them all, or just point you to the white papers?

We don't have control of our borders if we can't choose whom enters them, under what conditions.

Being bullied for wanting control of your own laws and immigration controls shouldn't be accepted.
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Energy Tariffs, we pay more than the rest of Europe because our government chose to deregulate the industry and let them fix their own prices and it will only get worse when schemes like Hinkley Point 2 come online as Osborne already signed us up to long term even higher fixed tariffs to obtain the Chinese and French backing for the plant. All our fault, nothing to do with the EU.

AWD, assuming you mean the Agency Working Directive looks fine to me, any attempt to ensure that agency workers must be paid the same as their full time equivalents is a decent workers protection that prevent the typical capitalist race to the bottom and worker exploitation. A plus point for the EU in my book and a protection that once we are out we will undoubtedly see flouted as the tories back big business and liberate their rights to shaft their workforce. You can list them and point to the whitepapers if you like but if they are your two main grievances then the rest must be real doozies like the straight banana law.

We do have control of our borders, we are signatories of the freedom of movement within Europe and I personally think that is a positive for both ourselves and Europe. We are crap at controlling our borders because they leak like a sieve, the Mail etc love to bang on about the 1.1M+ illegal immigrants already in the UK and as EU migrants are legal they are all clearly the ones from much further afield and we have no clue on how to stop them, how to find them or how to remove them. Why do you believe cutting off our nose to spite our face will help us, if we do block legal EU immigration why would you have any faith in our border patrols and foreign office managing to control things all of a sudden. We ban EU immigrants we'll rapidly find we've got 2-3 Million living off the radar in the UK paying no taxes and our bills for chasing them will skyrocket with the money coming from our pockets yet again.

Who's bullying you? Really, aw diddums, did the nasty Belgies suggest we should abide by the rules we helped write and signed up to yet again
 
Don't Kill Bill said:
We always were though, nothing has changed except we left a trade organisation and everyone in it seems to think it was our role to stay in it even if most people wanted to leave.

I don't get the vitriol, if it is a mistake then it is a mistake.
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What vitriol?
 
Don't Kill Bill said:
I don't get the vitriol, if it is a mistake then it is a mistake.
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Is it the vitriol from without or the vitriol from within you fail to understand. Because I can assure you the majority who were sadly in the minority on the 23 of June know damned well it's a mistake you are dragging us into and believe that we have every right to kick and scream as you drag us ever closer to your mistaken anti-EUtopia.
 
Wibble said:
All is going well. Nothing to see here.

B841514.jpg
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Well to be fair a lot of Brexiters are Cnuts
 
Chorley1974 said:
yep energy prices up 25%:wenger:
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I think the example in the article shows a rise of about 15% since the Britex vote. 25% is the drop in prices experienced prior to Britex under the vile European demagougues who were ripping off every-day honest Tommies who fought on the beaches for our freedom.
 
Chorley1974 said:
To be clear I don't have a problem.
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Then I don't understand. Outside of that you control your boarders to the point that your officers have the power to reject migrants on french soil, way before they have the chance to have a glimpse at a british boarder. That power allows your country to avoid most of the asylum requests.
 
[QUOTE="JPRouve, post: 19756635, member: 84732"]Then I don't understand. Outside of that you control your boarders to the point that your officers have the power to reject migrants on french soil, way before they have the chance to have a glimpse at a british boarder. That power allows your country to avoid most of the asylum requests.[/QUOTE]
 
JPRouve said:
What vitriol?
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You really need to ask? Just look at this reply for example:

Bury Red said:
I just hope you can enjoy your schadenfreude at the damage our exit will do to the EU as our own economy and industry tanks as a result of our ridiculous protest vote. Is working together with our nearest neighbours to ensure the betterment of the whole union so offensive to your xenophobic core that you'd rather we trash ourselves just to see everybody else suffer?

This really is an island of petty minded, vicious little bigots isn't it.
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On what basis have posters on this forum lost the right to such a simple thing as courtesy, and the respect due to one holding a different opinion? The UK decided against remained part of a political project that had slipped its leash, not the practice of cooperation and trade, or the abandonment of basic rights.

It is a singular irony of this debate, that many of those who would cry bigot are seemingly among the most intolerant of others.

What the government needs at this moment is an opposition seeking to uphold standards and the good qualities of the EU, rather than some peculiar wish for a Brexit Britain to suffer or ultimately fail. Brexit or no, there are still important areas of common ground; this should not be forgotten by those of Remain or Leave.
 
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Bury Red said:
I just hope you can enjoy your schadenfreude at the damage our exit will do to the EU as our own economy and industry tanks as a result of our ridiculous protest vote. Is working together with our nearest neighbours to ensure the betterment of the whole union so offensive to your xenophobic core that you'd rather we trash ourselves just to see everybody else suffer?

This really is an island of petty minded, vicious little bigots isn't it.
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Despicable post.

And might I add - the typical "for the greater good" far-left bullshit.
 
bury red only said what most people think without beating much around the bush. Lets face it, xenophobia played a big part in the leaver's campaign
 
I think desillusion played the biggest part. The lack of actual arguments tells me that they are just fed up with the situation in general. The EU and their citizens were the easiest culprit.
 
JPRouve said:
I think desillusion played the biggest part. The lack of actual arguments tells me that they are just fed up with the situation in general. The EU and their citizens were the easiest culprit.
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Delusion of grandeur (mostly due to nostalgia of a time gone by when the UK was still a big player on the world scene), ignorance about how politics work (they do believe that the EU controls every aspect of their lives) and xenophobia were the three main factors. Ah and I almost forgot, an unfair distribution of wealth in the UK

I think that xenophobia was the biggest of them all. At one point immigration was the main if not the only issue the leavers had.
 
I think that from all the countries in the world Japan was by far the most sincere of them all. No beating around the bush, no 'historical friends' and 'part of Europe' BS but they simply delivered the truth. Their message was simple. The UK is a great country to invest in, but if they are not able to grant access to the single market then we will relocate to other countries. No one wants to pay new tariffs to have access to the EU market. That's why they invested in the UK (ie part of the EU) in the first place
 
Mozza said:
The only redline in the negotiations to come is control of migration, nothing else matters more not even the economy, the racists and bigots must be pandered to first
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You do realise that the immigrants in this case are the same as English. If anything this will level the field (to live in UK) to all outsiders regardless of their race.


Scholesy said:
It is a bit rich coming from Japan when their debt is 230% GDP
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The Japnese lecturing anyone about economics is laughable. 25 years of economic stagnation and they still have not figured out how to pull themselves out of that hole.:lol:
 
Scholesy said:
It is a bit rich coming from Japan when their debt is 230% GDP
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What does debt has to do with what Japan said? The Japanese invested in the UK because the UK allowed them unrestricted access to the single market. If that option is not available anymore.......

Japan owned companies are the major producers of cars in the UK. I think you should show them a bit of more respect
 
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AshfordLad said:
You do realise that the immigrants in this case are the same as English. If anything this will level the field (to live in UK) to all outsiders regardless of their race.
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This will make it equally shit for everyone (but the rich), mad people still insist on hitting the totally arbitrary figure of migration in the tens of thousands, which means they can only make it harder. Don't fall in love with a foreigner
 
Mozza said:
This will make it equally shit for everyone (but the rich), mad people still insist on hitting the totally arbitrary figure of migration in the tens of thousands, which means they can only make it harder. Don't fall in love with a foreigner
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Unfortunately its going to be difficult for some. That does not mean the system is unfair. And to call it racist is totally ludicrous.

Infact spouse visa rules in many EU states can actually be classed as racist towards non EU spouses. We should be proud of dissociating ourselves from such discrimination.
 
AshfordLad said:
Unfortunately its going to be difficult for some. That does not mean the system is unfair. And to call it racist is totally ludicrous.

Infact spouse visa rules in many EU states can actually be classed as racist towards non EU spouses. We should be proud of dissociating ourselves from such discrimination.
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Can you explain that one, please?
 
AshfordLad said:
Unfortunately its going to be difficult for some. That does not mean the system is unfair. And to call it racist is totally ludicrous.

Infact spouse visa rules in many EU states can actually be classed as racist towards non EU spouses. We should be proud of dissociating ourselves from such discrimination.
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Difficult for some? Thats a most delicate way to say we will tear families apart to apease racists.

The EU rules are quite fair, prove you are in a sustained relationship and you are in, you don't have to prove your wealth, no surprise the Tories discriminate on that basis.
 
devilish said:
What does debt has to do with what Japan said? The Japanese invested in the UK because the UK allowed them unrestricted access to the single market. If that option is not available anymore.......
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Well if that option is not available each company will have to weigh up a significant number of variables in order to ascertain the best way forwards
Eg what will any increased costs actually be
Can the get the UK government to ammend the tax codes for example to offset any additional cost as tax deductible?
What would be the cost to move operations to a new country... would you sell your existing factory knowing a competitor could use it and the local skill set to quickly challenge.
And thousands of other variables
And whilst the government of Japan rightly voices the car industries concerns they also have the likes of Hitachi pushing for tens of billions of pounds worth of contracts to build nuclear reactors for the UK...
It won't be full on doom and gloom and neither will it be rule Britania... probably a very bumpy ride for something not dramatically different to the status quo though as the smaller party the odds are we end up holding the shitty(ish) end of the stick

Also if you take Honda for example they have produced 74413 cars in Europe this year so far and 2,855,654 worldwide
Whilst 2.6% is not irelavent it's not going to be their primary focus (figures from Honda plc monthly financial statement August 2016)
http://world.honda.com/investors/financial_data/monthly/
 
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For the car makers I reckon it's a choice of where they build the new car after next, the ones coming after 2020. Do you modernise the production line in Sunderland or build something new in Europe?
 
Mozza said:
Difficult for some? Thats a most delicate way to say we will tear families apart to apease racists.
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Its not racist to favour the one who brings you more money. Stop being delusional.

Mozza said:
The EU rules are quite fair, prove you are in a sustained relationship and you are in, you don't have to prove your wealth, no surprise the Tories discriminate on that basis.
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Factually incorrect. For a spouse visa non-eu nationals need to undergo housing inspections, income/wealth assessments and criminal record check of the spouse. None of which applies to the spouses of eu nationals.

UK has a (tougher) but much fairer system. UK does not even allow british nationals that added privilege.

JPRouve said:
Can you explain that one, please?
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Non-eu migrants living in germany, france, spain etc. need to go through rigorous checks to bring in their spouses. While the EEA citizens can just apply for a simple unconditional visa for their spouse.

Since most of the non-eu migrants are from asia/africa, such visa policies can be seen as disproportionately targeting people based on their ethnicity.
 
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Japan owned companies are the major producers of cars in the UK. I think you should show them a bit of more respect[/QUOTE]
Mozza said:
For the car makers I reckon it's a choice of where they build the new car after next, the ones coming after 2020. Do you modernise the production line in Sunderland or build something new in Europe?
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UK make 1.5 million cars per year, most are exported.
UK people buy approximately 3 million cars per year.

If foreign companies stop manufacturing cars here, then I think not as many UK people would buy their brand. We still need 3 million cars per year and also produce 1.5 million at present, so there is a huge market for UK companies to build cars here. People will buy their brand because they are made in the UK, and not by Toyota if they decide to leave.
 
AshfordLad said:
Non-eu migrants living in germany, france, spain etc. need to go through rigorous checks to bring in their spouses. While the EEA citizens can just apply for a simple unconditional visa for their spouse.

Since most of the non-eu migrants are from asia/africa, such visa policies can be seen as disproportionately targeting people based on their ethnicity.
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I don't know about the other countries but it's fairly easy to have a Visa, since with have the "family reunification" principle.
 
Scholesy said:
UK make 1.5 million cars per year, most are exported.
UK people buy approximately 3 million cars per year.

If foreign companies stop manufacturing cars here, then I think not as many UK people would buy their brand. We still need 3 million cars per year and also produce 1.5 million at present, so there is a huge market for UK companies to build cars here. People will buy their brand because they are made in the UK, and not by Toyota if they decide to leave.
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Then there is the fact that cars from outside of eu still carry substantial duty and taxes.

I really doubt Daimler, Volkswagen and BMW will be too happy with the greman govt if their cars started to carry that sort of duty. They might have to start building inside the UK.
 
JPRouve said:
I don't know about the other countries but it's fairly easy to have a Visa, since with have the "family reunification" principle.
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That only protects the EEA passport holders and their spouses though. Non-eu nationals are not covered and are routinely given a tough time.

Where as in the UK it almost does not matter if you are British/EU/non-EU national. The requirements are the same.
 
Mozza said:
Difficult for some? Thats a most delicate way to say we will tear families apart to apease racists.

The EU rules are quite fair, prove you are in a sustained relationship and you are in, you don't have to prove your wealth, no surprise the Tories discriminate on that basis.
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I really don't get this. Why racist?
 
AshfordLad said:
Its not racist to favour the one who brings you more money. Stop being delusional.
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The policy is to reduce migration to apease racists, the Tories who designed the policy have money so kept that as the key baisis for deciding who to let it. Their families are not effected, poorer people from ethnic minorities are.


Factually incorrect. For a spouse visa non-eu nationals need to undergo housing inspections, income/wealth assessments and criminal record check of the spouse. None of which applies to the spouses of eu nationals.

UK has a (tougher) but much fairer system. UK does not even allow british nationals that added privilege.


Non-eu migrants living in germany, france, spain etc. need to go through rigorous checks to bring in their spouses. While the EEA citizens can just apply for a simple unconditional visa for their spouse.

Since most of the non-eu migrants are from asia/africa, such visa policies can be seen as disproportionately targeting people based on their ethnicity.
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I know the UK route and the Surindar Singh route for bringing in non EU spouses. Factually I was correct

A rich feck can bring a Russian bride to the UK no problem, a poor person can't bring someone they genuinely love, this is tge fair system you champion
 
Chorley1974 said:
I really don't get this. Why racist?
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As has been reported extensivly today snd earlier this week it seems the only redline for the government is control of migration. This cotinues earlier policies to control migration even though its good for this country. People are willing to sacrifice every positive of EU membership for this one issue, in my opionion the only thing that could motivate such sacrifice is racism, bigotry and xenophobia
 
Mozza said:
As has been reported extensivly today snd earlier this week it seems the only redline for the government is control of migration. This cotinues earlier policies to control migration even though its good for this country. People are willing to sacrifice every positive of EU membership for this one issue, in my opionion the only thing that could motivate such sacrifice is racism, bigotry and xenophobia
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Are you saying that I am racist because I want my government to have control over the rules of who can reside in the UK?
 
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