Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
GloryHunter07 said:
Eh?
Why is that irrelevant?
Click to expand...

Because studies of the educational backgrounds of EU migrants obviously changes depending on what countries you look at and what time span you examine. The majority of those who move between EU14 countries for work are going to be better educated than both their own and their new countries' average. People didn't vote for Brexit because they were scared of degree level Germans saturating the market for IT jobs or Italians filling up postdoctoral research positions.

Zarlak said:
No, I think you just don't want to back up your statements.
Click to expand...

I've given you actual statistics to ponder, you've given nothing. So give me some numbers to debunk me, or would you rather just focus on your interpretation of the word flood?
 
Classical Mechanic said:
No there isn't. There is nothing wrong with ambition. For God's sake man, what do you expect the leader of the country to do, start crying in the corner because @devilish @RedCafe thinks the sky is going to fall in for Britain.

You are right though that the emerging superpowers should overtake us but that should happen (remember that they have failed to meet expectations so far) if we are in the EU or not.

The 'isolation' doom mongers are especially annoying, like if you are not in the EU you suddenly become isolationist, it is bollocks frankly. The U.K. will continue to be a multi cultural country trading with the world whatever the case. Some of the Brexiteers might be fooling themselves otherwise but you are both are dead wrong IMO.
Click to expand...

Yes I'd love to be a Manchester United player. That doesn't mean that its realistic to happen especially if I keep shooting at my feet with a .500 Magnum

The world is going into unions of countries. It worked successfully in the past (case in point is the USA but also, ironically, the UK) and this model is being copied by almost everybody. The African Union, the Union of South American nations, Asean. A bigger market gives countries a bigger market, a bigger market translates into more power. No one talks of sovereignty and 'getting back control'. Its so little ...you know

The UK cannot change its geographical location and sure as hell it can't change its history which may bring an element of mistrust to some countries. It will become that island stuck between two financial powerhouses which are the EU and the USA. Both will co-operate on somethings and disagree on others. Even now the US said that a trade deal with the UK is not a priority. I wont be surprised if the EU thinks the same about this so called global leader

And I sincerely do not wish the sky to fall on Britain and I had made friends with people who live here. Thank god I can move if things get wrong. Unfortunately unlike me (and Farage who seem to make sure to retain his freedom of movement) they don't. They are stuck here
 
Last edited:
devilish said:
Yes I'd love to be a Manchester United player. That doesn't mean that its realistic to happen especially if I keep shooting at my feet with a .500 Magnum

The world is going into blocks of countries. It works successfully in the past (case in point is the USA but also, ironically, the UK) and it keeps going there. EU, USA, African Union, Union of South American nations, Asean. A bigger market gives countries a bigger market, a bigger market translates into more power. No one talks of sovereignty and 'getting back control'. Its so little ...you know
Click to expand...

Even if that is true there is no value in being defeatist and I would not expect that from the leader of any country. You have to fight your corner come what may.

I see you prefer the David Moyes school of management.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
Even if that is true there is no value in being defeatist and I would not expect that from the leader of any country. You have to fight your corner come what may.

I see you prefer the David Moyes school of management.
Click to expand...

Its not about being defeatist but simply about being realistic. Moyes is an idiot but so was Keegan with his 'score one goal more then you' idiocy. Ironically both are British.

Seriously, the UK cant be a global leader. Its a prosperous country and will probably remain so in the years to come irrespective of Brexit but it cant lead anybody really, not outside a bloc. There will be always someone whose bigger or richer then it is. Learning and embracing such place isn't that bad. It means accepting one's limits and work around that by being more flexible, smarter, faster. That's what made my country a success story in the most troublesome area in the EU. We got a lower unemployment rate than both the UK and Germany.

And I sincerely do not wish the sky to fall on Britain. I live here and I had made friends with people who live here. Thank god, if shit does hit fan, I can move elsewhere. Unfortunately unlike me (and Farage who seem to make sure to retain his freedom of movement) my friends cant. They are stuck here
 
Last edited:
JPRouve said:
When you import more than you export, a strong pound is pretty sweet. A "weak" currency is good when you export a lot, like China.
Click to expand...


That is too simplistic.

Because when you export a lot more than you import your currency strengthens and vice versa unless you can get some weak economies to stupidly combine their currencies with yours and then you can really feck them over. Currency fluctuation is how economies balance their relative strengths and changes between their strengths without draconian socially unacceptable consequences and even then it doesn't always work and is more about speculation of eventual relative strengths rather than actual relative strengths.
 
Thats correct Bill, otherwise known as neo liberal policies, devaluing from within. its an eu disease which has never worked anywhere. We are now seeing the people protest.
 
Don't Kill Bill said:
That is too simplistic.

Because when you export a lot more than you import your currency strengthens and vice versa unless you can get some weak economies to stupidly combine their currencies with yours and then you can really feck them over. Currency fluctuation is how economies balance their relative strengths and changes between their strengths without draconian socially unacceptable consequences and even then it doesn't always work and is more about speculation of eventual relative strengths rather than actual relative strengths.
Click to expand...

Awww, such harsh words.:D It worked out brilliantly for us, but we're not the ones to blame. The french made it a requirement to give up the DM for our reunion with the former GDR.
 
vidic blood & sand said:
I'm thinking of someone else. Can't remember who.
Click to expand...

You're probably thinking of me, but I'm not in any danger of getting booted out. Just going to get French nationality shortly.

However, I will give a prediction, that in however many years time, Brexit may happen, the immigration laws /freedom of movement won't change at all - if the UK leave they just won't have a vote in the EU Parliament and that will be the sole difference from now.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
You're probably thinking of me, but I'm not in any danger of getting booted out. Just going to get French nationality shortly.

However, I will give a prediction, that in however many years time, Brexit may happen, the immigration laws /freedom of movement won't change at all - if the UK leave they just won't have a vote in the EU Parliament and that will be the sole difference from now.
Click to expand...

I agree. We will remain in the free trade area with free movement of people etc. We will basically give up our democratic representation in the EU. Essentially we will trade down a notch just so Cameron could settle the divisions in the Tory party. Those divisions will still exist as a result of the 'soft Brexit' as well.

Doh.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
I agree. We will remain in the free trade area with free movement of people etc. We will basically give up our democratic representation in the EU. Essentially we will trade down a notch just so Cameron could settle the divisions in the Tory party. Those divisions will still exist as a result of the 'soft Brexit' as well.

Doh.
Click to expand...

And yet the Tories like to try and tell us about how strong and united they are as a party.:lol:
 
Classical Mechanic said:
I agree. We will remain in the free trade area with free movement of people etc. We will basically give up our democratic representation in the EU. Essentially we will trade down a notch just so Cameron could settle the divisions in the Tory party. Those divisions will still exist as a result of the 'soft Brexit' as well.

Doh.
Click to expand...
Those divisions will be worse than ever if they go down that route. I dont think theyll get away with it to be honest.
 
Adebesi said:
Those divisions will be worse than ever if they go down that route. I dont think theyll get away with it to be honest.
Click to expand...

And they will get away with sinking the economy into recession whilst simultaneously failing to significantly curb immigration?

That is what will happen with a hard Brexit IMO.

This is the rhetoric from the very top at the moment

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/07/theresa-may-brexit-confusion-jeremy-corbyn-pmqs-live/

Looks to me like paving the way for a soft Brexit.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
And they will get away with sinking the economy into recession whilst simultaneously failing to significantly curb immigration?

That is what will happen with a hard Brexit IMO.

This is the rhetoric from the very top at the moment

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/07/theresa-may-brexit-confusion-jeremy-corbyn-pmqs-live/

Looks to me like paving the way for a soft Brexit.
Click to expand...
Sinking the economy into recession and failing to curb immigration are things that play out in slow motion and you can always bullshit your way around it by saying its short term pain for long term gain / things will pick up imminently / its not us, its Europe dragging us down etc etc. Plus, if the worst comes to the worst they have the cover of pointing out they are only delivering what the referendum clearly asked for, which was not IMO for a Norway style solution - as much as I would prefer that to a hard Brexit.

Settling on soft Brexit would be an event, something you could pinpoint in time, and people would react to, its quite different to the economy not doing that well, which is not a moment in time, its an ongoing thing and there is always the possibility of things picking up next quarter.
 
It will be a soft brexit. There's no other course of action. The tories are just trying to find a way of breaking it to their voters.
 
Adisa said:
It will be a soft brexit. There's no other course of action. The tories are just trying to find a way of breaking it to their voters.
Click to expand...

I wonder what type of screwed deal the EU will give the UK under such circumstances
 
devilish said:
I wonder what type of screwed deal the EU will give the UK under such circumstances
Click to expand...
Everyone is talking about a split in the Labour Party. I definitely think this could break the Tories. Australia have said there will be no fast track trade deal. Us say the same. EU says there will be nothing until A50 is triggered. Meanwhile, our government is just waiting for something to happen and bullshitting it's way through it all. I think this whole exercise has been a waste and there will be no changing every change in our relationship with the EU in he end.
 
Adisa said:
Everyone is talking about a split in the Labour Party. I definitely think this could break the Tories. Australia have said there will be no fast track trade deal. Us say the same. EU says there will be nothing until A50 is triggered. Meanwhile, our government is just waiting for something to happen and bullshitting it's way through it all. I think this whole exercise has been a waste and there will be no changing every change in our relationship with the EU in he end.
Click to expand...

I think that Theresa May is acting smart by permitting Brexiteers Davis, Boris and Fox to handle the whole Brexit process. If by some miracle they come out with a great deal, well and good. She will be hailed as Margaret Thatcher V2 and the one who lead the UK to a great Brexit. If this ends up into a mess, well, she will simply point the finger to those who brought the UK in this situation in the first place. Boris was the one who promised great trade deals but he failed to deliver same as Davis who was the Brexiteers expert in terms of EU and he also failed to deliver etc.

That will work brilliantly for Theresa. However I wonder, if its time for the UK to have politicians who put national interest first. This may sound trivial in the past 10-15 years. The UK is a stable, prosperous country who handled complex matters like trade deals, human rights, the environment etc to the EU only to bitch when things weren't done according to plan. However at this moment in history it need competent people to step up. By Putting a rookie who had insulted half the known world as foreign secretary and someone whose learning about the EU on the fly is not good enough and reflects the same Tory 'I am allright....' policy which brought the UK into this crazy situation.

I am probably the last person on this forum that should say that, but probably, the best solution to this mess was Boris plan pre Brexit. Theresa should go to Brussels, it should try and get a better deal to the hurried/fudged one given to Cameron and then put all her effort on selling that deal to the public through an early general election. A 10 year immigration break could do the trick especially if it comes in tandem with a set of reforms the UK can already implement in terms of welfare benefits and would hopefully lower the numbers down.

That will strengthen greatly the UKIP mob. However An alliance between the SNP, the Tories, the Lib Dem and labour should be enough to keep them in opposition. Its true that the EU has lost all patience with the UK and it can survive (if not even thrive) without it. However, its also true that money does talk at times, and a UK/EU is a messy divorce no one would really want to see.

After the dust had settled down and irrespective who would be the party in government, Westminster should invest (and encourage investment) in the North and in the Midlands. Which, in my opinion, is the main reason of why people had voted in the way they did. London cant keep taking all the cake and eat it.
 
Last edited:
I think what Devilish expects from the EU is job protection in a company that allows people to post allday on the redcafe ;)
 
Adisa said:
He's supposed to be representing British business but he tell the world that. Exporting is a duty? Does he think we are still in the colonial period?
Click to expand...

He does seem to have lost it. Maybe he knows something we Don't? (A preemptive attack to an imminent exodus?)
 
Last edited:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-fox-international-trade-brexit-a7235581.html

Isn't he the one saying the UK should go for a wto style trade agreement with Europe in order to maximise the gains in trade agreements with other countries? I'm not as familiar with the english media as most of you, is this what you call a "hatchet job", and they just misquoted him completely? Seems a really weird thing to say for the Secretary of State for International Trade.

Edit: Ok, it seems he really said that:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...prepared-to-secure-future-outside-eu-says-fox
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/09/09/british-business-fat-and-lazy-liam-fox-claims/

Odd.
 
Last edited:
You just know he'll eventually resign in disgrace. Again.
 
More difficult and costly than now. And 240 million quid a year cost to British holidaymakers.
 
Stanley Road said:
No Biggie

My mates GF arrived in NL from the Philippines 2 weeks ago. Thursday she had meeting with the immigration dept and was granted a 6 months work permit, yesterday she was offered a job and she starts Monday. If it's that easy for someone from asia how difficult will it be for brits?
Click to expand...
Yeah, we've never been quite as friendly and efficient on awkward island though Stan, we had mates from Singapore whose son lived and worked in Bangkok with his Thai wife of 10 years. She's highly educated and earns a fortune in investment banking but when they tried to get a tourist visa to visit the UK for one week to attend the wedding of her brother in law it took her 4 months and 6 days off work sat in the British embassy before she could convince them she was not some invading force. They begrudgingly granted her visa 12 hours before her flight by which time the whole family had accepted they would not be at the wedding.

I was going through a 40 page passport in 5 years in Asia, I'll be doing it every 2 years if they start stamping it every time I enter and exit the EU. As for the length of queues at Heathrow or Gatwick once they start vetting and stamping every arriving EU passport it just doesn't bear thinking about, and before you say but you'll be in the UK queue so why worry, the non EU passport queues are presently better manned and faster because of the degree of vetting we do whilst the EU queues take an age, when it's EU and ROW they'll have 38 windows of stern faced guardians of Britannia echoing the mantra "if in doubt, keep 'em out" whilst the Brits will be queuing 3,000 deep for the 2 remaining windows and 5 electronic readers that never work.

I have no doubt we'll be able to make the most unmitigated clusterfeck imaginable out of it.
 
Wibble said:
More difficult and costly than now. And 240 million quid a year cost to British holidaymakers.
Click to expand...
A conservative estimate in both senses of the word I'm sure, by the time we've managed to stick a few more layers of bureaucracy in there and a few enterprising individuals set up agencies to make it easier and guarantee your visa and passport are back with you in time I'm sure we can quadruple the cost to the individual. As for the cost to business, I'm sure that won't be a problem and will just make our fat and lazy corporations even more competitive.
 
Yes you've hilighted some problems in uk bury but they've always been there and always will. Getting back in to my own country is always a crap experience
 
You must log in or register to reply here.