Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

[Stactix]

"Just leave - businesses will cope, they always do - some will fold, others be created. Embrace the freedom of opportunity to rethink the same old constraints that deliver the same old results

Customs Unions are just protectionist policy for keeping the same high earners protected from having to roll their sleeves up and work for a change."

Reading the BBC New's HYS always leave me depressed.
Sort of people that would vote for Trump for Prime minister..

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Am I right in saying GB is going to be subject to the same EU laws but now get zero influence over them?

The little bits of news I see on the whole Brexit issue, seems the general population are going to be screwed over.
I’m seeing zero benfit for GB, certainly nothing like the lies and BS they were fed in the lead up to the referendum.

I got a briefing recently from a policy wonk who has an inside track on some aspects of the negotiations. He said that the British negotiators are under immense pressure to come up with some sort of upside to the British economy from all of this, anything at all will do. They keep being told to go away and don't come back without this Holy Grail but they're completely stumped. Which is one of the main reasons all of the big decisions are constantly being kicked down the road.

 

[Fully Fledged]

Am I right in saying GB is going to be subject to the same EU laws but now get zero influence over them?

The little bits of news I see on the whole Brexit issue, seems the general population are going to be screwed over.
I’m seeing zero benfit for GB, certainly nothing like the lies and BS they were fed in the lead up to the referendum.

I saw that from the outset. I couldn't understand why anybody would vote for it.

 

[Red_toad]

I saw that from the outset. I couldn't understand why anybody would vote for it.

I don't get why there's no real movement to feck brexit off and stay in the union. As a founder member the UK is in a far better position. I'd say an example is being made of them to stop the union splitting up.

 

[Fully Fledged]

I don't get why there's no real movement to feck brexit off and stay in the union. As a founder member the UK is in a far better position. I'd say an example is being made of them to stop the union splitting up.

I don't think so. The thing is they want all the benefits of membership without any of the costs. That was never going to happen.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Am I right in saying GB is going to be subject to the same EU laws but now get zero influence over them?

The little bits of news I see on the whole Brexit issue, seems the general population are going to be screwed over.
I’m seeing zero benfit for GB, certainly nothing like the lies and BS they were fed in the lead up to the referendum.

To stop a hard border in Ireland, the UK will have to stay in the CU/SM. If they stay in the CU/SM they are virtually in the EU in all but name and will have to pay their subs , abide by the ECJ and will have almost no say in anything.
They are not a founder member, they spent more than 10 years desperately trying to join.

The thing is that the big promise of making their own trade deals will not happen if they remain in the SM/EU.

The damage this will do has still not dawned on a massive part of the population.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I don't think so. The thing is they want all the benefits of membership without any of the costs. That was never going to happen.

It sometimes seems a bit crazy that the UK will be taking to the cleaners for leaving a group that it voluntarily joined. But the EU is what it is. A very tight knit group of countries, with closely aligned laws and regulations that cover every aspect of society. You can't undo decades of legislation in a couple of years. The only way for a "clean break" would be if all the members agreed to disband at once and even then the disentanglement would take years.

It was utter madness to expect that one of these countries could just walk away - over the space of a couple of years - without crippling itself in the process. Which makes the whole Leave campaign even more deceitful with hindsight. UK voters were fed a tissue of lies, from start to finish.

 

[Fully Fledged]

It sometimes seems a bit crazy that the UK will be taking to the cleaners for leaving a group that it voluntarily joined. But the EU is what it is. A very tight knit group of countries, with closely aligned laws and regulations that cover every aspect of society. You can't undo decades of legislation in a couple of years. The only way for a "clean break" would be if all the members agreed to disband at once and even then the disentanglement would take years.

It was utter madness to expect that one of these countries could just walk away - over the space of a couple of years - without crippling itself in the process. Which makes the whole Leave campaign even more deceitful with hindsight. UK voters were fed a tissue of lies, from start to finish.

I know and the hard thing to understand was that so many people believed them. Leaves manifesto just never passed the sniff test for me.

 

[MoskvaRed]

Am I right in saying GB is going to be subject to the same EU laws but now get zero influence over them?

The little bits of news I see on the whole Brexit issue, seems the general population are going to be screwed over.
I’m seeing zero benfit for GB, certainly nothing like the lies and BS they were fed in the lead up to the referendum.

If the UK government wants to minimise the economic damage, the, yes, your first paragraph sums it up. The best we can hope for (short of some dramatic u-turn) is a good deal worse than what we currently have. The alternative is a clean break which has the benefit of greater control of immigration (if you believe it is a problem) but will certainly lead to huge short to medium term disruption and very possibly the break up of the UK.

It’s a toxic mix of fringe ideology, nostalgia, nationalism and stupidity which has managed to win out over pragmatism and common sense.

 

[Cheesy]

 

[Adisa]

It would be funny if it wasn't our country.

 

[sullydnl]

 

[Cheesy]

Good thread. The role of the DUP in all of this - from the very start - has completely baffled me. What in the actual feck do they want?

They supported Brexit, and consequently were happy to jump in the bandwagon of ending freedom of movement and leaving the customs union. But they simultaneously didn't want an Irish border. Ireland being one of the EU states we have FoM with. But they also don't want a sea border which partly cuts them off from the union. Were they genuinely so idiotic to the point where they failed to see how this would feck them over no matter what they attempted to do?

 

[2cents]

Were they genuinely so idiotic to the point where they failed to see how this would feck them over no matter what they attempted to do?

Seems so. In fairness they weren’t the only ones - was the border dilemma ever raised during the course of the Brexit campaigns?

 

[Silva]

All questions on the border were met with "project fear"

 

[Wibble]

If the UK government wants to minimise the economic damage, the, yes, your first paragraph sums it up. The best we can hope for (short of some dramatic u-turn) is a good deal worse than what we currently have. The alternative is a clean break which has the benefit of greater control of immigration (if you believe it is a problem) but will certainly lead to huge short to medium term disruption and very possibly the break up of the UK.

It’s a toxic mix of fringe ideology, nostalgia, nationalism and stupidity which has managed to win out over pragmatism and common sense.

The only way to minimise damage is to stay in the EU as a full member and do so ASAP.

 

[Cheesy]

Seems so. In fairness they weren’t the only ones - was the border dilemma ever raised during the course of the Brexit campaigns?

Very rarely. Brexiteers conveniently ignored it while Remainers didn't push anywhere near hard enough on it. But the DUP are in the unique position of being one of the parties who'll be affected directly in NI by this.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Seems so. In fairness they weren’t the only ones - was the border dilemma ever raised during the course of the Brexit campaigns?

It was but remember that the Leave campaigners were saying that the UK would stay in the CU/SM so the Irish border was less of a problem if the UK stayed in the CU/SM.

The problem was not only did the general public not understand what the implications of Brexit were, nor did the idiots who campaigned for it.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I like this tl;dr version.

 

[stevoc]

Good thread. The role of the DUP in all of this - from the very start - has completely baffled me. What in the actual feck do they want?

They supported Brexit, and consequently were happy to jump in the bandwagon of ending freedom of movement and leaving the customs union. But they simultaneously didn't want an Irish border. Ireland being one of the EU states we have FoM with. But they also don't want a sea border which partly cuts them off from the union. Were they genuinely so idiotic to the point where they failed to see how this would feck them over no matter what they attempted to do?

To be fair they rarely ever seem to know what the feck they are up to. And actually voting yes to something must have confused them further.

Of course i wouldn't expect any less from the only political party that opposed the Good Friday Agreement.

 

[Cheesy]

I like this tl;dr version.

I feel like we kinda need more of this. A lot of the discussion around Brexit often shifts to, say, how Remainers are being too negative, or how we aren't embracing it properly, or side discussions over other technical issues relating to it. But I'm increasingly thinking we just need to cut to the chase: as it currently stands Brexit is either stupid or unfeasible. Not much more can be said than that.

 

[711]

I like this tl;dr version.

Strangely misses out the 4th choice, no customs union and a hard border. If that does come about people from all sides will have to think about how to manage the situation and what responsibilities they will have themselves.

 

[sullydnl]

Strangely misses out the 4th choice, no customs union and a hard border. If that does come about people from all sides will have to think about how to manage the situation and what responsibilities they will have themselves.

That's what the backstop the UK has already agreed to is supposed to prevent though?

 

[Steven Seagull]

What is a “bog standard” customs union?

 

[Dobba]

Don't worry, the Lib Dems will win some council seats tonight and Brexit will be cancelled by midday tomorrow.

 

[711]

That's what the backstop the UK has already agreed to is supposed to prevent though?

Yes it is, but as all parties say when it suits them, nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.

For the record, personally I would rather remain in the EU and have an open border, I'm only trying to predict the future as it might be, not how I would want it.

 

[Kentonio]

Yes it is, but as all parties say when it suits them, nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.

Yeah, which is great for those of us living in the EU with no idea how Brexit may feck our lives over.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

There is no "bog standard" customs union or "a" customs union - there is only one customs union involving the EU, that's the one the UK are in now.

There is no meaningful vote in parliament about we don't like this bit or that bit, the only possible vote is whether or not to cancel Brexit but if they don't hurry up, it will be too late.

 

[711]

There is no "bog standard" customs union or "a" customs union - there is only one customs union involving the EU, that's the one the UK are in now.

There is no meaningful vote in parliament about we don't like this bit or that bit, the only possible vote is whether or not to cancel Brexit but if they don't hurry up, it will be too late.

I agree with this, except to add we have no idea how the EU would respond if we did request to withdraw article 50. Some individuals have given hints as to their own preferences, but the actual response hasn't even been debated yet. Would the EU allow it at all? And if, perhaps not unreasonably, they took a hard line and demanded we join the Euro etc in return, then what would that mean, another referendum on the new terms? It's fecking chaos.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

I agree with this, except to add we have no idea how the EU would respond if we did request to withdraw article 50. Some individuals have given hints as to their own preferences, but the actual response hasn't even been debated yet. Would the EU allow it at all? And if, perhaps not unreasonably, they took a hard line and demanded we join the Euro etc in return, then what would that mean, another referendum on the new terms? It's fecking chaos.

It was easier to predict how the EU would react when the UK handed in their notice, which contrary to the Leavers' beliefs was not to cave in to the UK's demands.
Although there would be a feeling of relief in some quarters that the UK is leaving, overall common sense would surely prevail and belief is that everyone would be better off if the UK remained.

Of course the EU would want reassurances, not to have a repeat episode a few years down the line. If the UK don't actually leave I doubt the EU would force the UK to take the Euro because it is agreed that they wouldn't have to. It may be a different story regarding all the discounts and rebates the UK get, so it could become more expensive, but it will be anyway.

I don't think another referendum is on the cards, it will be a parliament decision but probably means the government will fall.

You're right, it's chaos but whatever happens it will be chaos, depends which chaos you want.

 

[711]

It was easier to predict how the EU would react when the UK handed in their notice, which contrary to the Leavers' beliefs was not to cave in to the UK's demands.
Although there would be a feeling of relief in some quarters that the UK is leaving, overall common sense would surely prevail and belief is that everyone would be better off if the UK remained.

Of course the EU would want reassurances, not to have a repeat episode a few years down the line. If the UK don't actually leave I doubt the EU would force the UK to take the Euro because it is agreed that they wouldn't have to. It may be a different story regarding all the discounts and rebates the UK get, so it could become more expensive, but it will be anyway.

I don't think another referendum is on the cards, it will be a parliament decision but probably means the government will fall.

You're right, it's chaos but whatever happens it will be chaos, depends which chaos you want.

I read this today:
Mrs Thatcher’s rebate is known as “the mother of all rebates” in Brussels because it spawned similar deals with Germany, the Netherlands, Sweden, Austria and Denmark.
Taken from http://www.hl.co.uk/news/2018/5/3/eu-fury-as-brussels-demands-bigger-budget-to-plug-brexit-blackhole
So having a go at the UK's rebate might not be so straightforward. I must admit if I were an EU loving foreign person I'd say 'right then, join the euro like you should have done in the first place, you cnuts'.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

I read this today:
Mrs Thatcher’s rebate is known as “the mother of all rebates” in Brussels because it spawned similar deals with Germany, the Netherlands, Sweden, Austria and Denmark.
Taken from http://www.hl.co.uk/news/2018/5/3/eu-fury-as-brussels-demands-bigger-budget-to-plug-brexit-blackhole
So having a go at the UK's rebate might not be so straightforward. I must admit if I were an EU loving foreign person I'd say 'right then, join the euro like you should have done in the first place, you cnuts'.

I think if the UK left and later tried to rejoin then they would have to take the Euro but if they just tear up their resignation they probably won't.

On the budget I saw this http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/...plans-show-purpose-but-lack-ambition-say-meps

At this moment in time, it looks like a cliff edge in March, the Tories continue to squabble amongst themselves, time passes very quickly and if they have not come up with some concrete solutions by the end of June, I can only see the UK drift off out of the EU, which is even worse than the scenario envisaged two years ago. At that time if they were to leave they would been expected to have measures in place but they are not prepared at all.

Davis is assuming the transition period is a given, it is far from that at the moment unless they resolve the Irish border problem very quickly.

 

[711]

I think if the UK left and later tried to rejoin then they would have to take the Euro but if they just tear up their resignation they probably won't.

On the budget I saw this http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/...plans-show-purpose-but-lack-ambition-say-meps

At this moment in time, it looks like a cliff edge in March, the Tories continue to squabble amongst themselves, time passes very quickly and if they have not come up with some concrete solutions by the end of June, I can only see the UK drift off out of the EU, which is even worse than the scenario envisaged two years ago. At that time if they were to leave they would been expected to have measures in place but they are not prepared at all.

Davis is assuming the transition period is a given, it is far from that at the moment unless they resolve the Irish border problem very quickly.

For the EU budget, I was merely replying to your suggestion that if the UK remained and had it's rebate removed then Germany, the Netherlands, Sweden, Austria and Denmark would have to lose their rebates too, which might make this less likely. I'm not really bothered what MEPs or their constituents think about their budget, as things stand it won't be the UK's concern.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

For the EU budget, I was merely replying to your suggestion that if the UK remained and had it's rebate removed then Germany, the Netherlands, Sweden, Austria and Denmark would have to lose their rebates too, which might make this less likely. I'm not really bothered what MEPs or their constituents think about their budget, as things stand it won't be the UK's concern.

Not directly, maybe. One of the many Catch 22’s in this Brexit madness is that - even post-Brexit - Britain will do better when the rest of Europe is thriving. If the EU can’t balance its books and plunges into a deep recession then Britain will share their pain.

 

[711]

Not directly, maybe. One of the many Catch 22’s in this Brexit madness is that - even post-Brexit - Britain will do better when the rest of Europe is thriving. If the EU can’t balance its books and plunges into a deep recession then Britain will share their pain.

True, the EU will still be the UK's biggest market. I was trying to say the UK would be viewing the EU budget as outsiders. It's still in everyone's interest for the EU to do well of course.

 

[Dobba]

The Lib Dems won a council seat in Sunderland. Brexit is off, lads.

Scratch that, the Tories won one too. Brexit is both off and harder.

 

[711]

The Lib Dems won a council seat in Sunderland. Brexit is off, lads.

Scratch that, the Tories won one too. Brexit is both off and harder.

 

[Silva]

 

[Silva]

https://www.independent.ie/world-ne...elay-brexit-by-up-to-five-years-36872115.html

How about we just let the Brexiteers negotiate their dream, perfect, have your cake and eat it deal on the condition that we keep extending our membership until their deal works in the real world? We get to remain in the EU forever and they get to pretend we're not, everyone wins.

 

[GloryHunter07]

Don't worry, the Lib Dems will win some council seats tonight and Brexit will be cancelled by midday tomorrow.

At least they are trying to stop Brexit.